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  1. #3766
    Ultimate Member Johnny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    Really starting to wish Morrison's last issue had been Hal's swan song across the board. They don't have to use him if they don't want to, but let him go out on a high note with his dignity intact.

    It's not nearly as bad as what was being done to Wally until recently nor the Parallax thing in the 90s, but it's pretty transparent. Just don't use him until there is a good pitch for him, it's not that hard (same goes for any character).



    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    So is this what we can expect from a pro-John editorial?
    I don't really think so since it's not like they need to make Hal look bad in order to make other GLs look good, they simply don't need to use him if they don't have any good ideas for him like SiegePerilous02 mentioned. Just seems odd that Hal barely appears in any in-continuity book as it is, and if he appears in an Elseworlds story he's made to look bad in some way. It's unnecessary and it feels deliberate but for no apparent reason. If there's nothing good they can think of doing with him, keep him on the shelf until someone comes in with a good pitch.

  2. #3767
    Ultimate Member Johnny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HsssH View Post
    I still have some faith that Hal will make a comeback in the last issue of Last Ride.
    Oh he will. And after the League saves the day, they'll pull some "twist" ending where Darkseid left a portion of his consciousness in Hal's head or whatever. I'm almost entirely sure that if Hal survives, a variation of that scenario is what will end up happening. They're not even trying.
    Last edited by Johnny; 10-26-2021 at 11:07 AM.

  3. #3768
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    Eh? I wouldn't say this is a result of pro-John editorial. Just about what you can expect from another of these dumb DC apocalpytic elseworld books.
    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny View Post
    I don't really think so since it's not like they need to make Hal look bad in order to make other GLs look good, they simply don't need to use him if they don't have any good ideas for him like SiegePerilous02 mentioned. Just seems odd that Hal barely appears in any in-continuity book as it is, and if he appears in an Elseworlds story he's made to look bad in some way. It's unnecessary and it feels deliberate but for no apparent reason. If there's nothing good they can think of doing with him, keep him on the shelf until someone comes in with a good pitch.
    I guess I didn't mean it in the sense as trying to put him down for other GL's but just in general not caring about him and that effecting how they use him.

  4. #3769
    Ultimate Member Johnny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I guess I didn't mean it in the sense as trying to put him down for other GL's but just in general not caring about him and that effecting how they use him.
    Yeah it's possible. After all if they're no longer invested in him from a marketing perspective, they don't need to make sure he is well-written and protected from garbage takes like an awful vampire story.

  5. #3770
    Ultimate Member sifighter's Avatar
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    Okay so can I play devil’s advocate, and yes I do think the elseworld beat downs are starting to be an excessive pattern for Hal, but I think it’s supposed to be the shock of one of the best and founding members of the Justice League being turned, defeated, or betraying the others.

    Hal no matter the continuity has always helped founded the Justice League. He’s one of the big seven, so that when it’s revealed he’s a vampire or a zombie or whatever then it’s supposed to be a big gut punch to the readers to see him like that. So I’m not saying it’s not bothersome, but I think they utilize Hal like this because they know his importance and not that they hate him.
    Last edited by sifighter; 10-26-2021 at 11:13 AM.
    "It's fun and it's cool, so that's all that matters. It's what comics are for, Duh."
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  6. #3771
    Ultimate Member Johnny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sifighter View Post
    Okay so can I play devil’s advocate, and yes I do think the elseworld beat downs are starting to be an excessive pattern for Hal, but I think it’s supposed to be the shock of one of the best and founding members of the Justice League being turned, defeated, or betraying the others.

    Hal no matter the continuity has always helped founded the Justice League. He’s one of the seven, so that when it’s revealed he’s a vampire or a zombie or whatever then it’s supposed to be a big gut punch to the readers to see him like that. So I’m not saying it’s not bothersome, but I think they utilize Hal like this because they know his importance and not that they hate him.
    Yeah but I think that shock element hasn't been shocking for nearly 30 years now. We've already seen him go rogue and betray the others even if it was subsequently retconned. In 2021 there's nothing shocking about Hal going rogue. if anything it just gives more ammo to people who claim this is a no-good character who doesn't deserve to stand alongside his peers.

  7. #3772
    Ultimate Member sifighter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny View Post
    Yeah but I think that shock element hasn't been shocking for nearly 30 years now. We've already seen him go rogue and betray the others even if it was subsequently retconned. In 2021 there's nothing shocking about Hal going rogue. if anything it just gives more ammo to people who claim this is a no-good character who doesn't deserve to stand alongside his peers.
    I get that, by the way sorry for the cut off quote I pressed submit by accident while tying.
    "It's fun and it's cool, so that's all that matters. It's what comics are for, Duh."
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  8. #3773
    Fantastic Member Mutatis_Mutandis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny View Post
    Well it seems like pretty much everything I speculated about both Justice League: Last Ride and DC vs. Vampires turned out to be more or less accurate. Can you imagine seeing something like this happen to the Hal Jordan character even a few years back. I think at this point I've given this current DC management the benefit of the doubt for long enough, clearly they must not think very highly of this character to be doing this kind of thing to him. And I've been upfront from the get go that I don't mind them not pushing him anymore if they don't think he serves their corporate interests anymore, as long as they don't try to ruin his credibility in the process and well, here we are. These people are clearly not interested in doing this character justice regardless of the continuity, and lord knows I detest these "Management wants to ruin my favorite" talking points I see on social media all the time, but this clearly seems like a reoccurring pattern at this point.

    In any event, I guess I should point out he at least evidently seems to be more effective here. In Last Ride he blew up the central power battery to try to stop Darkseid from absorbing its power, yet apparently it had both the exact opposite effect and he ended up being possessed by Darkseid, making him look entirely incompetent in the process. He's clearly not as incompetent here but I'm not sure that should be complimentary.
    Yeah, exactly, really don't want to turn into one of those fans but it's beginning to feel like a pattern at this point. Just don't use the character if you're not a fan, there's no need to go out of the way to destroy his dignity as a character (again, not saying any particular writer is aiming for that but cumulatively, that's the message that's coming across).

  9. #3774
    Ultimate Member Gaius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I guess I didn't mean it in the sense as trying to put him down for other GL's but just in general not caring about him and that effecting how they use him.
    I think if anything it's a more sense of editorial should have looked they have two series out right now which essentially do the same plot point (and on the heels of another one they just did) and probably correct that.

    But I imagine like DCeased this will sell well, so what do I know.

  10. #3775
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    I think it's a sign that the pendulum is swinging back to the 90s era comics and stuff like the DCAU.

    I'm not keeping tabs on the Flash too much, but Wally is back in the role right? Plus there is stuff like Clark and Lois being married again and exploring the legacy aspect with his son, and Barbara Gordon is supposedly still a Batgirl but is mostly functioning in an Oracle like capacity while Cass and Steph appear to be getting more focus in the Batgirls book. So we're likely seeing the impact of a writing staff that grew up in the 90s/2000s where the main GL didn't have to be Hal, so they don't have any attachment to him,

    Which would be fine, everybody gets their own turn. But like I said...just don't use him. Despite all the teeth gnashing we got during the Johns days, I don't think Hal getting the spotlight really threw any dirt on the other GLs beyond them going a bit too hard on the "greatest of them all" stuff. Kyle and John certainly fared better during that period than the hatchet job that was done to Wally when Barry came back, or the sexist BS the various Batgirls have to deal with. So it's not like there really is anything to "get back" at Hal for.

    Quote Originally Posted by EmeraldGladiator View Post
    Editorial can have it's preferences but if your preference isn't selling well, and the new GL direction can't be catergorized as selling well, and there is an option that is known to sell better then it is only a matter of time before they have to reverse course. Then again there is the Legion to debunk that line of thinking.
    I don't think Morrison's GL sold that well towards the end. It just got too experimental and weird for most people, so I don't think it was generally due to lack of interest in Hal specifically, just that it wasn't easily accessible junk food entertainment.

    If Hal came back, I don't think he'd sell that much. Mostly because, the way people are talking, nobody sells consistently well besides the Bat-books at this point at DC anyway. I think Action Comics is at an unusual low for that title, and that's the one regular book fucking Superman is in.

  11. #3776
    Invincible Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    Really starting to wish Morrison's last issue had been Hal's swan song across the board. They don't have to use him if they don't want to, but let him go out on a high note with his dignity intact.

    It's not nearly as bad as what was being done to Wally until recently nor the Parallax thing in the 90s, but it's pretty transparent. Just don't use him until there is a good pitch for him, it's not that hard (same goes for any character).
    Still believe that Johns GL run should’ve ended with Hal and Carol getting married and Hal taking a step back for a while. Not retiring, not hanging up the ring, he still could’ve been used for events, but letting him take a step back meant that when he inevitably returned it would’ve been a big deal. Basically letting him mature for a while meant when he came back it hopefully would’ve been with a plan for where to take him and also to move him forward from the Johns characterization of him.

    Oh well, I liked Venditti’s Rebirth run and I do think there will be better days ahead for Hal.
    For when my rants on the forums just aren’t enough: https://thevindicativevordan.tumblr.com/

  12. #3777
    Ultimate Member Gaius's Avatar
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    Anyways:


  13. #3778
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    Anyways:

    Man, I love this book

  14. #3779
    Ultimate Member Johnny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    Anyways:

    Doesn't know who the president is but promises to tell the driver a story if he takes him to the nearest bar. That scene is just too perfect. Who is this guy, he doesn't seem so boring to me.
    Last edited by Johnny; 10-27-2021 at 08:32 AM.

  15. #3780
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    I think it's a sign that the pendulum is swinging back to the 90s era comics and stuff like the DCAU.

    Which would be fine, everybody gets their own turn. But like I said...just don't use him. Despite all the teeth gnashing we got during the Johns days, I don't think Hal getting the spotlight really threw any dirt on the other GLs beyond them going a bit too hard on the "greatest of them all" stuff. Kyle and John certainly fared better during that period than the hatchet job that was done to Wally when Barry came back, or the sexist BS the various Batgirls have to deal with. So it's not like there really is anything to "get back" at Hal for.
    Johns had a respect for continuity and past writers and characters so other GL's fared well. This is much better than "the audience is easily confused so there can only be one GL in the entire GL universe", in a way wrecking a franchise to prop up a character in the era right before his.


    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    I don't think Morrison's GL sold that well towards the end. It just got too experimental and weird for most people, so I don't think it was generally due to lack of interest in Hal specifically, just that it wasn't easily accessible junk food entertainment.

    If Hal came back, I don't think he'd sell that much. Mostly because, the way people are talking, nobody sells consistently well besides the Bat-books at this point at DC anyway. I think Action Comics is at an unusual low for that title, and that's the one regular book fucking Superman is in.
    The only DC books whose sales recently were better than expected were the last long run on the Flash books which sold well for it making it the best non team ongoing outside of the bat family. There is also event fatigue which in a way spikes interest but has diminishing returns, I can't imagine what event they could announce at DC that would get the masses excited. Oh yeah they could do exactly what I want (reestablish the original Legion, bring back an hybrid of Roy Thomas' and Geoff Johns' JSA/Infinity Inc, a Titans book with Cyborg featured and give Hal and ongoing and reestablish the GLC) but that would just make me happy not sure if it would move the masses. (Ironically that is what I thought I was getting with Doomsday Clock but DC fooled me that time).

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