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  1. #781
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post

    And to think Steel was in this story .

  2. #782
    Extraordinary Member liwanag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    And to think Steel was in this story .
    i think that was steel's hammer that green lantern used to whack mongul with.

  3. #783
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post

    I was actually excited that Hal was part of the Reign of Superman. Did not know that would lead to Emerald Twilight.
    Last edited by silly; 02-12-2021 at 01:13 AM.

  4. #784
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny View Post
    In perspective I wish there was a JL team-up too because sometimes I joke whether those guys even remember Hal anymore, but I'm glad we got the Flash and Arrow issues.
    I'd like that too. Hal and Barry. Green Lantern and.Green Arrow. Hal and Superman.

  5. #785
    Fantastic Member Mutatis_Mutandis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post

    This entire issue is fantastic. A rare glimpse at a really pissed off angry Hal. And that "My will is something you'll never touch" moment really lands after the internal narration. I really really love how Hal draws upon the cries of the dead for that final bit of strength and willpower. Sadly it was all downhill from this point on.

  6. #786
    Fantastic Member Mutatis_Mutandis's Avatar
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    Scenes like this really cement my love for the character. Whether it's Morrison, King (of Darkseid War), or the best parts of Jones and Johns' runs, what is the one consistent core trait of Hal Jordan? Absolute defiance in the face of impossible odds. In this scene for instance, Hal begins from an emotional state of almost pure rage, driven by vengeance. He makes absolute short work of Mongul's troops before finding Mongul himself. Then he has a setback, Mongul shatters his arm and knee. He thinks about how he's been chasing the past and how that might have led him inevitably to this fate. But the cries of the dead will not die out. You cannot leave behind your past through wishful thinking. It has to be processed for any genuine progress to be made. And in that one moment, when Hal draws upon the dead for their strength, he's able to redeem his past and provide catharsis for himself as well as for the dead (and presumably for the reader). Through a sheer act of human will, he transvaluates the past into an affirmation of the present.

    This core character trait of Hal's, to never say no, to never give up, no matter how bleak things may seem, seems to me all the more relevant today in today's bleak world scenario. Unlike Batman, whose fear of contingency makes him come up with shady schemes that then backfire, Hal isn't afraid of affirming chance (something Tom King got absolutely right in his Darkseid War story - Hal will not play God because the position of God to him is too determinstic). But no matter what happens, no matter how impossible the odds may seem, no matter what authority he has to defy, nothing can shake his immutable resolve to do the right thing (something comics like Injustice get so terribly wrong when Hal still simps for Superman after he kills Ollie). It must take very little imagination imo to think that the core of what such a character represents is irrelevant.

  7. #787
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Morrison definitely zeroed in on an unbreakable free will as Hal's defining trait

  8. #788
    Fantastic Member Mutatis_Mutandis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    Morrison definitely zeroed in on an unbreakable free will as Hal's defining trait
    Yeah, I think his love of autonomy and self-determination also play into his love of flight (or even drifting). I absolutely refuse to read him as an authority figure as lesser writers often reduce him to. He loves being a GL not because he gets to work for some vast cosmic police bureaucracy but because 1) it presents him with an endless horizon for new encounters and experiences 2) as he says in Blackstars, somebody has to keep the guardians accountable, make sure they don't overstep their boundaries.

    And I really love how Morrison has developed the relationship between Hal and his ring. There's a genuine mutual fondness there. And you can re-read Hal's depression post-giving-up-his-ring in the old Wein-Englehart run in a new light.
    Last edited by Mutatis_Mutandis; 02-12-2021 at 05:59 AM.

  9. #789
    Fantastic Member Mutatis_Mutandis's Avatar
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    What is very interesting to me is that this "self-determination" is not the determination of some absolutely stable essential self but for the autonomy to make mistakes, to learn, to evolve. To have the autonomy to grow out of your past self. This point is made multiple times throughout Morrison's run. Hal describes himself as a corps, a multitude, who's not at odds with the contradictory nature of his past selves. Even in the latest issue, when he says he can be himself, his ring retorts with, "Which self?" This to me is not just a superficial anti-authoritarianism but an anti-authoritarian ethos towards life itself that can undermine the sovereignty of the self to learn and grow.

    And if we see Hal's publication history, this holds true imo. Like when Ollie chastises him, he quickly accepts his mistakes and often reacts with righteous rage (this is the difference between O'Neil - for all his shortcomings - and something like Injustice. At least in GL/GA, for all his naivete, he was not an idiot who ignored obvious evidence in front of his own eyes. Nor did he have sympathy for tinpot would-be dictators.) In the beginning of v3, he gives up being GL to "find the man" only to realize that he's both GL and Hal Jordan. He's not afraid of making mistakes. But he learns from them, casts off his past self, and rises to the top once again. I think these lesser moments in his history take on an interesting light if read through this lens. At the core of the character though is always an affirmation of life in its multiplicity, in its right to resist any domination no matter how badly the odds may be stacked against him (he's even willing to punch God in the face!). It certainly helps that in Morrison's run, he's damn good at his job.
    Last edited by Mutatis_Mutandis; 02-12-2021 at 06:21 AM.

  10. #790
    Extraordinary Member HsssH's Avatar
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    All very good points, but I'd like to add that, at least to me, him being a cop makes the entire thing even better when cops are often depicted as being authoritarian or at least pro-authority.

  11. #791
    Extraordinary Member liwanag's Avatar
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  12. #792
    Extraordinary Member liwanag's Avatar
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  13. #793
    Ultimate Member sifighter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by liwanag View Post
    Is Hal...Jojo posing?
    "It's fun and it's cool, so that's all that matters. It's what comics are for, Duh."
    Words to live by.

  14. #794
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    Quote Originally Posted by sifighter View Post
    Is Hal...Jojo posing?
    Giorno's theme intensifies...

  15. #795
    Ultimate Member Gaius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxStirner_91 View Post
    What is very interesting to me is that this "self-determination" is not the determination of some absolutely stable essential self but for the autonomy to make mistakes, to learn, to evolve. To have the autonomy to grow out of your past self. This point is made multiple times throughout Morrison's run. Hal describes himself as a corps, a multitude, who's not at odds with the contradictory nature of his past selves. Even in the latest issue, when he says he can be himself, his ring retorts with, "Which self?" This to me is not just a superficial anti-authoritarianism but an anti-authoritarian ethos towards life itself that can undermine the sovereignty of the self to learn and grow.

    And if we see Hal's publication history, this holds true imo. Like when Ollie chastises him, he quickly accepts his mistakes and often reacts with righteous rage (this is the difference between O'Neil - for all his shortcomings - and something like Injustice. At least in GL/GA, for all his naivete, he was not an idiot who ignored obvious evidence in front of his own eyes. Nor did he have sympathy for tinpot would-be dictators.) In the beginning of v3, he gives up being GL to "find the man" only to realize that he's both GL and Hal Jordan. He's not afraid of making mistakes. But he learns from them, casts off his past self, and rises to the top once again. I think these lesser moments in his history take on an interesting light if read through this lens. At the core of the character though is always an affirmation of life in its multiplicity, in its right to resist any domination no matter how badly the odds may be stacked against him (he's even willing to punch God in the face!). It certainly helps that in Morrison's run, he's damn good at his job.
    Great analysis, feels like a lot of writers only look a few of the famous panels from the GA/GL run, or summaries of it, when looking to try and justify making Hal have authoritarian and small minded tendencies.
    Last edited by Gaius; 02-12-2021 at 12:15 PM.

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