The Kurt Wagner / Nightcrawler Appreciation 2021

[From The Shadows]

I reeaaally rather he not though. He is already being pigeon-holed and by Way of X it is not what I thought it would be. I know that is not the major opinion.

[From The Shadows]

Subject: Porting. Just because.

[Su_Whisterfield]

Recent teleportation, from Marvel Infinity.
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Just love the look on Logan’s face!
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[From The Shadows]

Recent teleportation, from Marvel Infinity.
28201EA9-D6A1-47D5-8920-0A446FB2AD3C.jpg

Just love the look on Logan’s face!
A3811C8E-C300-4E02-BF92-C89E288352FA.jpg

This looks very cartoony, not that I am complaining, it's funny. But I can't get it sadly. I am glad Logan and Kurt aren't at odds right? This is light-hearted? At least not in the way that made him a drag to others: fans, during the black op x-force era. Not so much Kurt fans. Anyway... I think Kurt should grow.

[From The Shadows]

Onslaught: Revelation.

[From The Shadows]

[Su_Whisterfield]

Kurt doodle while listening to the Excalibur podcast.

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[taozen]

How is everyone feeling about Kurt's plot/story arc in "Way of X" thus far. I have been kinda meh about it. I thought the 1st few issues were well written but I just has not hooked me at all. It's sad that the best Nightcrawler stories are still in Alan Davis' Excalibur series. It seem that so many righters believe Kurt's most interesting character feature is his religiousness.

Maybe with the fact that so many mutants powers keep increasing that many creators do not seem to believe Kurt is truly relevant. It just seems it has been an eternity since I read a great Nightcrawler story.

[Proxy]

How is everyone feeling about Kurt's plot/story arc in "Way of X" thus far. I have been kinda meh about it. I thought the 1st few issues were well written but I just has not hooked me at all. It's sad that the best Nightcrawler stories are still in Alan Davis' Excalibur series. It seem that so many righters believe Kurt's most interesting character feature is his religiousness.

Maybe with the fact that so many mutants powers keep increasing that many creators do not seem to believe Kurt is truly relevant. It just seems it has been an eternity since I read a great Nightcrawler story.

Agreed that Nightcrawler’s very underutilized. I think many characters have now been trapped in one dimensional traits and unfortunately for Kurt, they fixated on his religion. I also think this stems from a bigger problem in the superhero franchise in the obsession with OP powers. Many writers now seem to think more power equals better characters and stories. The nuance of using what skills you have in creative ways depending on the situation has been lost over the years.

I’ve always said that Kurt’s existing power set doesn’t need to be OP, he’s already very powerful/deadly with the skills he has. Nightcrawler’s practically designed to be a killing/assassin machine but what makes him fascinating is that he chooses not to use his skills to there full potential, because he is a good man who’d rather avoid killing and harming; and he’d rather find alternative solutions to end conflict whenever possible. Nightcrawler holds himself back on purpose and I think some writers interpreted that as ‘weakness’. I really don’t think many writers know how to portray that anymore. They seem to be obsessed with big event moments and mutant fusion. The way they write stories now reminds me of firework displays, pretty and engaging for a couple of minutes, completely forgotten when it’s over.

That being said I’m actually enjoying Hickman’s characterisation of Kurt, in the brief moments we’ve seen, I think Hickman gets it. Shame he’s not around anymore.

[Proxy]

How is everyone feeling about Kurt's plot/story arc in "Way of X" thus far. I have been kinda meh about it. I thought the 1st few issues were well written but I just has not hooked me at all. It's sad that the best Nightcrawler stories are still in Alan Davis' Excalibur series. It seem that so many righters believe Kurt's most interesting character feature is his religiousness.

Maybe with the fact that so many mutants powers keep increasing that many creators do not seem to believe Kurt is truly relevant. It just seems it has been an eternity since I read a great Nightcrawler story.

As for Way of X, I’ve made my feelings on that book very clear. Spurrier either doesn’t know or care about Nightcrawler as a character, or any other characters beside Legion for that matter. He seems to tell very philosophical stories and unfortunately that leaves very little room for characterization.

Nightcrawler was a convenient choice because he’s the most obviously religious. I do not have any positive expectations for the Legionaries but I will give it the benefit of the doubt and pick up the first issue.

[Su_Whisterfield]

Agreed that Nightcrawler’s very underutilized. I think many characters have now been trapped in one dimensional traits and unfortunately for Kurt, they fixated on his religion. I also think this stems from a bigger problem in the superhero franchise in the obsession with OP powers. Many writers now seem to think more power equals better characters and stories. The nuance of using what skills you have in creative ways depending on the situation has been lost over the years.

I’ve always said that Kurt’s existing power set doesn’t need to be OP, he’s already very powerful/deadly with the skills he has. Nightcrawler’s practically designed to be a killing/assassin machine but what makes him fascinating is that he chooses not to use his skills to there full potential, because he is a good man who’d rather avoid killing and harming; and he’d rather find alternative solutions to end conflict whenever possible. Nightcrawler holds himself back on purpose and I think some writers interpreted that as ‘weakness’. I really don’t think many writers know how to portray that anymore. They seem to be obsessed with big event moments and mutant fusion. The way they write stories now reminds me of firework displays, pretty and engaging for a couple of minutes, completely forgotten when it’s over.

That being said I’m actually enjoying Hickman’s characterisation of Kurt, in the brief moments we’ve seen, I think Hickman gets it. Shame he’s not around anymore.

Yeah, in agreement with this.
Not every reader has an interest in ‘feats’, I never have, never will.

Kurt is interesting for all the reasons you detailed, but the nature of comics has changed in the 30 years since I was a regular reader. And writers have changed. And, I assume the readers too.

[Tobinator]

As for Way of X, I’ve made my feelings on that book very clear. Spurrier either doesn’t know or care about Nightcrawler as a character, or any other characters beside Legion for that matter. He seems to tell very philosophical stories and unfortunately that leaves very little room for characterization.

Nightcrawler was a convenient choice because he’s the most obviously religious. I do not have any positive expectations for the Legionaries but I will give it the benefit of the doubt and pick up the first issue.

Yeah, in agreement with this.
Not every reader has an interest in ‘feats’, I never have, never will.

Kurt is interesting for all the reasons you detailed, but the nature of comics has changed in the 30 years since I was a regular reader. And writers have changed. And, I assume the readers too.

Yeah, I agree with all this. I've also made my thoughts clear in the WoX and Onslaught threads, but writers seem to not get the reason people like Nightcrawler (hint: it's not because he spends all his time delivering sermons). It's like they haven't read even the first issue of Excalibur (or even Amazing X-men). WoX Nightcrawler's take on sex was offensively naive, his way of reconciling abuser and victim was itself horrifyingly abusive, his constant whining was grating, he immediately folded in every argument he argued, and his final epiphany was cartoonish. As a reader and a fan of Nightcrawler, I found WoX insulting. And the more I think about it, the angrier I get.

[From The Shadows]

How is everyone feeling about Kurt's plot/story arc in "Way of X" thus far. I have been kinda meh about it. I thought the 1st few issues were well written but I just has not hooked me at all. It's sad that the best Nightcrawler stories are still in Alan Davis' Excalibur series. It seem that so many righters believe Kurt's most interesting character feature is his religiousness.

Maybe with the fact that so many mutants powers keep increasing that many creators do not seem to believe Kurt is truly relevant. It just seems it has been an eternity since I read a great Nightcrawler story.

Parts meh, parts outrage. This was definitely not an NC book or was it driven by him. Why Stacy had to hit Kurt the way she did is beyond me. But then Spurrier had him say one of the lamest things ever and that's not Kurt. They only want to go with that crowd (from nearly 15 years gone) that thought Kurt had to put out to Stacy. It ruins Stacy's development too unless you are white-- uh, something.

[Su_Whisterfield]

Yeah, I agree with all this. I've also made my thoughts clear in the WoX and Onslaught threads, but writers seem to not get the reason people like Nightcrawler (hint: it's not because he spends all his time delivering sermons). It's like they haven't read even the first issue of Excalibur (or even Amazing X-men). WoX Nightcrawler's take on sex was offensively naive, his way of reconciling abuser and victim was itself horrifyingly abusive, his constant whining was grating, he immediately folded in every argument he argued, and his final epiphany was cartoonish. As a reader and a fan of Nightcrawler, I found WoX insulting. And the more I think about it, the angrier I get.

I don’t think the creators find Kurt sexy, artist and writer are both heterosexual men, as far as I’m aware but then so is Alan Davis and he gave us the sexiest Kurt we’ve ever had. It’s not essential for a creator to find a character attractive, obviously, but Kurt felt positively neutered in this book. As well as prudish. Priest Kurt is the least interesting Kurt because of that.

[Proxy]

I don’t think the creators find Kurt sexy, artist and writer are both heterosexual men, as far as I’m aware but then so is Alan Davis and he gave us the sexiest Kurt we’ve ever had. It’s not essential for a creator to find a character attractive, obviously, but Kurt felt positively neutered in this book. As well as prudish. Priest Kurt is the least interesting Kurt because of that.

Spurrier saw Kurt as nothing more than an ordained priest and everything he assumed that to be. Despite that being wrong in canon he states in interviews a number of times that Kurt is struggling with his duties as a priest which is why Kurt questions things the way he does; I assume the writer was trying to escape some of the backlash he received because he started giving this reasoning after Way of X #3. Spurrier is really not subtle about his opinions on religion in the book, it practically oozes out of the page and Nightcrawler was the unfortunate fall guy to symbolize Spurriers own opinions on organized religion vs his preferred ideology. After reading the whole series, I thought that this story wasn’t about the characters at all, just the writers own philosophies, as so many comics are today.

Spurrier is a good philosophical writer, he has a very creative mind and I think I could enjoy some of his work if they were indie comics with new characters, or characters that have had no proper development before. But I’ve been rather put off him writing established characters now.

Bob I am more forgiving, he’d never drawn Kurt before and stated that he tried to draw high like a gymnast. By onslaught revelations I thought he did a good job with his final take on Kurt’s design (Minus the beard cause I personally don’t like bearded-crawler). I agree that Bob probably didn’t think to draw him sexy, however none of the characters in Way of X are drawn sexy, with the exception of loa and mercury in the Way of X #3 scene making me ponder if Bob was instructed to do that?