The Kurt Wagner / Nightcrawler Appreciation 2021

[taozen]

Kurt has always been my favorite X charater but it just has been forever since he has been an interesting character. I wish he had a more prominent roll in the franchise. He needs to consistently lead a team. He needs to be place in situations where he has real conflict with other characters. Kurt is always high on the list of likable X-characters but it saddens me that he has not been a very interesting character in a long time.

I though Way of X was going to change it but not so much as of yet. The religious aspect of Kurt has not been interesting. I like when there are hints of it in his character writer do with Daredevil. I guess we will need a writer that really adores him for there to be real development with him. He isn't one of the most powerful and his personality isn't abrasive enough to cause a great deal of conflict which why I think he is often forgotten. Hopefully this will change soon. At least I hope so.

[From The Shadows]

Kurt has always been my favorite X charater but it just has been forever since he has been an interesting character. I wish he had a more prominent roll in the franchise. He needs to consistently lead a team. He needs to be place in situations where he has real conflict with other characters. Kurt is always high on the list of likable X-characters but it saddens me that he has not been a very interesting character in a long time.

I though Way of X was going to change it but not so much as of yet. The religious aspect of Kurt has not been interesting. I like when there are hints of it in his character writer do with Daredevil. I guess we will need a writer that really adores him for there to be real development with him. He isn't one of the most powerful and his personality isn't abrasive enough to cause a great deal of conflict which why I think he is often forgotten. Hopefully this will change soon. At least I hope so.

Kurt may not be an abrasive enough personality but I think Davis played around with Kurt enough where he revealed an assertiveness in Kurt. I think they should draw from that. Re: Brian, Feron etc. I don't want anything starting up between Brian again though but those are just some examples. Kurt really just fell back into his old role since Hickman took over. It happened with Guggenheim as well, he was better in Red but Jean was the main focus, there were other better bright bits in between. But nothing that really pushed the character forward. I think the last time anything to do with NC that was really exciting was Amazing, the one written by Aaron but he quit one arc in.

[taozen]

Kurt may not be an abrasive enough personality but I think Davis played around with Kurt enough where he revealed an assertiveness in Kurt. I think they should draw from that. Re: Brian, Feron etc. I don't want anything starting up between Brian again though but those are just some examples. Kurt really just fell back into his old role since Hickman took over. It happened with Guggenheim as well, he was better in Red but Jean was the main focus, there were other better bright bits in between. But nothing that really pushed the character forward. I think the last time anything to do with NC that was really exciting was Amazing, the one written by Aaron but he quit one arc in.

That's why I believe he needs to be a team leader again. Then he can be written into positions where he has to deal with conflict. I mean conflict as in a writing concept. His powers being passive does not give him an automatic power set that pushes him to the forefront. His being on the Quiet Council has not let to much to his narrative unlike other members. I think his character needs a bit of a shake up. He has been a bit boring and barely used lately.

[Proxy]

That's why I believe he needs to be a team leader again. Then he can be written into positions where he has to deal with conflict. I mean conflict as in a writing concept. His powers being passive does not give him an automatic power set that pushes him to the forefront. His being on the Quiet Council has not let to much to his narrative unlike other members. I think his character needs a bit of a shake up. He has been a bit boring and barely used lately.

Depends what you find interesting. I wouldn’t say Nightcrawler’s powers are passive; they can be used both for offence and defence. Kurt puts up a great fight when he has to.

I do think it comes down to modern writing style: most stories have hyped up flashy powers being the forefront, while less grandiose power sets that rely on being strategic have been placed to the side.
Similarly, I find many characters quite one dimensional in this era and therefore, less interesting to me. We have very little personal conflicts going on and no one knows what anyone is thinking, we don’t get to see characters doubt themselves or question anything, they just….do things.

I’ll use Way of X 3 as an example: I would have been so much more interested if we took some time to explore Nightcrawler’s internal feelings about the abandoned children. Kurt’s an abandoned foundling himself and later finding out his mother couldn’t care less if he’d died when she threw him away….I’m sorry but I cannot believe he had no feelings about what was happening to those kids in relation to himself. It doesn’t have to be thought bubbles (but I will forever mourn this unique and effective use of storytelling in comics), just….take a moment to consider it in the story. I would find the situation so much more interesting and the part Kurt plays in it when it’s directly related to him. How would he view this situation in contrast to Stacie or Dr Nemesis? how does that effect their response to it?

I want more connection to the characters personalities/experiences and the situations they find themselves in, not just the ‘and then, and then’ method of storytelling.

[taozen]

Depends what you find interesting. I wouldn’t say Nightcrawler’s powers are passive; they can be used both for offence and defence. Kurt puts up a great fight when he has to.

I do think it comes down to modern writing style: most stories have hyped up flashy powers being the forefront, while less grandiose power sets that rely on being strategic have been placed to the side.
Similarly, I find many characters quite one dimensional in this era and therefore, less interesting to me. We have very little personal conflicts going on and no one knows what anyone is thinking, we don’t get to see characters doubt themselves or question anything, they just….do things.

I’ll use Way of X 3 as an example: I would have been so much more interested if we took some time to explore Nightcrawler’s internal feelings about the abandoned children. Kurt’s an abandoned foundling himself and later finding out his mother couldn’t care less if he’d died when she threw him away….I’m sorry but I cannot believe he had no feelings about what was happening to those kids in relation to himself. It doesn’t have to be thought bubbles (but I will forever mourn this unique and effective use of storytelling in comics), just….take a moment to consider it in the story. I would find the situation so much more interesting and the part Kurt plays in it when it’s directly related to him. How would he view this situation in contrast to Stacie or Dr Nemesis? how does that effect their response to it?

I want more connection to the characters personalities/experiences and the situations they find themselves in, not just the ‘and then, and then’ method of storytelling.

I think we agree. By passive I mean he is a teleporter which is a passive power. So when a writer is developing their team to pitch their book and thinking power sets, I do not think Kurt's is at the forefront unlike powers Cyclopes, Storm, Wolverine or Colossus. Plus many of those characters have strong personalities which many writers want to write.

Many times Kurt is used as a team's moral compass but even that does not lead to interesting conflicts. I do not read a ton of X-books but will pick up anything he is written into. I believe if he is a team leader, he would have to be more into the forefront with far greater possibilities of interesting plots for him.

[From The Shadows]

That's why I believe he needs to be a team leader again. Then he can be written into positions where he has to deal with conflict. I mean conflict as in a writing concept. His powers being passive does not give him an automatic power set that pushes him to the forefront. His being on the Quiet Council has not let to much to his narrative unlike other members. I think his character needs a bit of a shake up. He has been a bit boring and barely used lately.

I thought Kurt developing a new faith or deciding to ditch his old one, the latter - my preferred possibility (without the brooding, there are people that don't make it a big deal) would have been a shake-up. Oh, well. We got really nothing to do with that he was just the usual Priestly stereotype.

Depends what you find interesting. I wouldn’t say Nightcrawler’s powers are passive; they can be used both for offence and defence. Kurt puts up a great fight when he has to.

I do think it comes down to modern writing style: most stories have hyped up flashy powers being the forefront, while less grandiose power sets that rely on being strategic have been placed to the side.
Similarly, I find many characters quite one dimensional in this era and therefore, less interesting to me. We have very little personal conflicts going on and no one knows what anyone is thinking, we don’t get to see characters doubt themselves or question anything, they just….do things.

I’ll use Way of X 3 as an example: I would have been so much more interested if we took some time to explore Nightcrawler’s internal feelings about the abandoned children. Kurt’s an abandoned foundling himself and later finding out his mother couldn’t care less if he’d died when she threw him away….I’m sorry but I cannot believe he had no feelings about what was happening to those kids in relation to himself. It doesn’t have to be thought bubbles (but I will forever mourn this unique and effective use of storytelling in comics), just….take a moment to consider it in the story. I would find the situation so much more interesting and the part Kurt plays in it when it’s directly related to him. How would he view this situation in contrast to Stacie or Dr Nemesis? how does that effect their response to it?

I want more connection to the characters personalities/experiences and the situations they find themselves in, not just the ‘and then, and then’ method of storytelling.

I agree. I even posted some examples. I guess it's up to interpretation in the end. Or what you see as offensive/tough. They could always beef up his powers. I mean back during Morrison everyone was getting a second mutation or an upgrade but Kurt would be "too powerful?" Please.

[taozen]

I thought Kurt developing a new faith or deciding to ditch his old one, the latter - my preferred possibility (without the brooding, there are people that don't make it a big deal) would have been a shake-up. Oh, well. We got really nothing to do with that he was just the usual Priestly stereotype.



I agree. I even posted some examples. I guess it's up to interpretation in the end. Or what you see as offensive/tough. They could always beef up his powers. I mean back during Morrison everyone was getting a second mutation or an upgrade but Kurt would be "too powerful?" Please.

His powers could easily be increased. One such possibility would increase his port distance and speed. Make his appearance and bamf effect faster; thus, making it harder to counter his porting.

There could be interesting applications of his teleportation powers such has touching a person with an object such as a blunt weapon or a whip and teleporting that person. The power changes could just give creator more interesting effects to do with his powers.

But the biggest change I want is not a power change but a change in his assertiveness. I just wish he was more in the forefront. That is why I suggested him being a consistent leader of a team again. If that were to happen, we would get more plots featuring him. For instance he would have been used in the X 0f Swords story. Still bothered that he wasn't one of the combatants in that one since he is the classic X-Men's resident master swordsman.

[From The Shadows]

His powers could easily be increased. One such possibility would increase his port distance and speed. Make his appearance and bamf effect faster; thus, making it harder to counter his porting.

There could be interesting applications of his teleportation powers such has touching a person with an object such as a blunt weapon or a whip and teleporting that person. The power changes could just give creator more interesting effects to do with his powers.

But the biggest change I want is not a power change but a change in his assertiveness. I just wish he was more in the forefront. That is why I suggested him being a consistent leader of a team again. If that were to happen, we would get more plots featuring him. For instance he would have been used in the X 0f Swords story. Still bothered that he wasn't one of the combatants in that one since he is the classic X-Men's resident master swordsman.

There is this though, complete with sword. Maybe there is hope.

Onslaught: Revelation.



If they can have Kurt go back to "the last resort " guy that Davis and Ellis played around with and have him meet it with his powers in the AoA without having a complete shift in personality I would take it. I don't want Kurt Darkholme , I still want Kurt Wagner, though.

[From The Shadows]

Kurt being assertive.

[From The Shadows]

There is this though, complete with sword. Maybe there is hope.

Onslaught: Revelation.

I never really examined this enough outside those swords but I am really thinking this may be the final team that was supposed to be settled on in Way of X. And since that was connected with Onslaught as well this may be why WoX eneded so early. If you look closely... We have Juggs cracking his knuckles, guys with a gun - one being Doc Nemesis (with skunk hair?), the other one I don't recognize, Pixie and her daggers and I don't know who that blonde woman is, she sort of looks like Beautiful Dreamer in Daggers X-Costume. Then read the words. And of course, Kurts in the forefront with his swords and his grin and a baeaard!!!. Anyone know who the two unknowns are? A more proactive team? It may be interesting if they clash with X-Force. Not sure why they would but it still could be interesting.

[Su_Whisterfield]

I never really examined this enough outside those swords but I am really thinking this may be the final team that was supposed to be settled on in Way of X. And since that was connected with Onslaught as well this may be why WoX eneded so early. If you look closely... We have Juggs cracking his knuckles, guys with a gun - one being Doc Nemesis (with skunk hair?), the other one I don't recognize, Pixie and her daggers and I don't know who that blonde woman is, she sort of looks like Beautiful Dreamer in Daggers X-Costume. Then read the words. And of course, Kurts in the forefront with his swords and his grin and a baeaard!!!. Anyone know who the two unknowns are? A more proactive team? It may be interesting if they clash with X-Force. Not sure why they would but it still could be interesting.

Other guy with gun is Forget Me Not and the blonde woman is Blindfold.
I suspect the chin of the large figure is Legion and it looks like Dust’s dust top right.

We’re getting Chris writing Kurt again in at least one issue of Xmen Legends (Issue 12 is a classic Excalibur story).

[Proxy]

His powers could easily be increased. One such possibility would increase his port distance and speed. Make his appearance and bamf effect faster; thus, making it harder to counter his porting.

There could be interesting applications of his teleportation powers such has touching a person with an object such as a blunt weapon or a whip and teleporting that person. The power changes could just give creator more interesting effects to do with his powers.

But the biggest change I want is not a power change but a change in his assertiveness. I just wish he was more in the forefront. That is why I suggested him being a consistent leader of a team again. If that were to happen, we would get more plots featuring him. For instance he would have been used in the X 0f Swords story. Still bothered that he wasn't one of the combatants in that one since he is the classic X-Men's resident master swordsman.

I think his power set is really dependent on the writer. Although I do like your idea of weapons being extensions of his porting, I don’t think we’ve seen him do that.

Right now Spurrier has established that Kurt now has the ability to teleport more than 2 miles. Also he can control the velocity of his ports which he couldn’t do originally (falling from a great height meant porting would be dangerous as he’d appear somewhere else going the same speed, but that doesn’t happen now). Kurt’s shadow/invisibility powers also seem to have made a come back.
Also there is a debate of whether Kurt could be considered a speedster, his porting in some books is faster than a bullet fired from a gun pressed against his head. What catches him out is people who know his pattern of porting (Wolverine) which he could change up. As far as I know, Kurt’s porting has been described in his original design as instantaneous, can’t get much faster than that.

I agree that I always enjoy Kurt being in the forefront of a story, not sure if that means he has to be more assertive. I think Nightcrawler’s pretty noticeable as he is. As ‘from the shadows’ shown in their great collection; Nightcrawler knows how to be assertive, but doesn’t do it often, and will especially back off if it means he has to make decisions that others will dislike and make him unlikable to the team. I’ve always found it interesting to see Kurt put in a position of team-leader; There’s no question that he is capable on a practical level, like being good at strategy; but he really doesn’t seem to ever enjoy it. Always over thinking and second guessing himself and passing leadership to someone else at the earliest opportunity. I wonder if Legionaries will see Kurt battle with his own self-doubt as a leader.

[From The Shadows]

I think his power set is really dependent on the writer. Although I do like your idea of weapons being extensions of his porting, I don’t think we’ve seen him do that.

Right now Spurrier has established that Kurt now has the ability to teleport more than 2 miles. Also he can control the velocity of his ports which he couldn’t do originally (falling from a great height meant porting would be dangerous as he’d appear somewhere else going the same speed, but that doesn’t happen now). Kurt’s shadow/invisibility powers also seem to have made a come back.
Also there is a debate of whether Kurt could be considered a speedster, his porting in some books is faster than a bullet fired from a gun pressed against his head. What catches him out is people who know his pattern of porting (Wolverine) which he could change up. As far as I know, Kurt’s porting has been described in his original design as instantaneous, can’t get much faster than that.

I agree that I always enjoy Kurt being in the forefront of a story, not sure if that means he has to be more assertive. I think Nightcrawler’s pretty noticeable as he is. As ‘from the shadows’ shown in their great collection; Nightcrawler knows how to be assertive, but doesn’t do it often, and will especially back off if it means he has to make decisions that others will dislike and make him unlikable to the team. I’ve always found it interesting to see Kurt put in a position of team-leader; There’s no question that he is capable on a practical level, like being good at strategy; but he really doesn’t seem to ever enjoy it. Always over thinking and second guessing himself and passing leadership to someone else at the earliest opportunity. I wonder if Legionaries will see Kurt battle with his own self-doubt as a leader.

I don't believe that was what was shown in my collection at all? Where is he backing off? I don't understand why his fans took one bad story from Chuck that was considered a devolution of the character that was realized outside the haters even back then and go with it. But I guess it depends on what you find interesting. I however don't like that Chuck Austen stuff that just lasted one arc. Perhaps by the worst writer in X-History. It was pretty unanimous outside a few weird Azazel lovers. I thought we were on the same page, I guess I was wrong. I'll have to respectfully disagree.

What about how NC would look to the public here.



Yelling at the team to get going. Kitties own words: in this story. "Kurt doesn't get angry very often but when he does..." in response to a shocked Pete Wisdom and it didn't change NC's thinking.





Going against Brians wishes here.

[Proxy]

Ah sorry, to clarify I meant you demonstrated his assertiveness. And I completely agree that he can be very assertive and take charge when he has to. I was talking more about backing off from the leadership role, rather than specific situations.

You make a fair point about Chuck and I really don’t like Chucks run either. But it’s not just in Chucks run that Nightcrawler questions his leadership decisions, he did it in the earlier runs especially when getting used to being put in a position of leadership. Beating himself up when other team members got hurt, questioning if he was fit to lead. Even in Excalibur when he was clearly the leader, he sometimes brushed aside the title when it was suggested to him (I think Rachel tries calling him boss a couple of times which he weakly protests). I’m not suggesting he outright hates doing it or complains about it but whenever Kurt is in a leadership role, he seems to abdicate pretty quick when someone else is there to take over. Just going on my memory here; he never seems to fight to hold onto the role and I can’t remember a time he’s volunteered himself to be leader of a team with the new exception of the Legionaries.

My memory is foggy on that though, happy to be proved wrong.

[From The Shadows]

"Shut up, Feron!" LMAO you go! I luv u.