The Kurt Wagner / Nightcrawler Appreciation 2021

[From The Shadows]

What did people think of Kurt taking the kill shot in Way of X 2?

Probably my favorite part. Now if only he can make less religious references when he does it. This issue was ok. Though, I's like to see more about Kurt like Legion, it just seems like Kurts stuff is vague and we have seen that ship before. Liked seeing the other characters like Pixie, Dazzler etc.. but wish there was more than just a panel of Mercury when she was mentioned. Soon I hope the vagueness will go away. The art was fine.

[Su_Whisterfield]

What did people think of Kurt taking the kill shot in Way of X 2?

Well, he had no choice, as David was about to lose control. And we know that Kurt takes responsibility seriously; if he’s in charge of a team, it’s down to him to do the deed. Plus, the resurrection protocols, and David’s blessing are mitigating factors.
Still, it would upset him, I suspect this is why he gets drunk at the Gala, which is a problematic coping mechanism, what he really needs is to talk to someone. Or a hug.

[cinnaminion]

Superhero stories have a problem with killing. On the one hand, "superheroes never kill." On the other, "glorify violence/revenge and the bad guy'll somehow wind up dead anyway... and then turn out to still be alive after all in a few years." It makes no sense. Hard and fast "no kill" rules might work for stories for little kids, but I think the trouble for Crawler is, that just doesn't make sense with the way the X-books have been written for a while now. Religion aside, I mean, "murder is bad" is hardly a value restricted only to people who believe in the Ten Commandments.

The thing about Kurt and killing is, it's not the act that bothers me, it's that it tends to make characters harden. Which I don't want for Kurt. But bad writers take a guy like Kurt and make him naive or moralistic. Kurt killed his brother before he was ever an X-man. I mean, come on. It wasn't on purpose but so what. He understands shades of gray. His best friend is freaking Wolverine!

Lol so pretty much I'm torn about that scene. I'm not the least bit upset that he shot Legion's brain, but I don't know if he had to be quite so dramatic about it. But overall I enjoyed the issue so, I'm just accepting what I've been given. :P What I definitely DO like is what motivated him to pull the trigger. It was more interesting than simple "protect someone" "save the world" etc.

[Su_Whisterfield]

Superhero stories have a problem with killing. On the one hand, "superheroes never kill." On the other, "glorify violence/revenge and the bad guy'll somehow wind up dead anyway... and then turn out to still be alive after all in a few years." It makes no sense. Hard and fast "no kill" rules might work for stories for little kids, but I think the trouble for Crawler is, that just doesn't make sense with the way the X-books have been written for a while now. Religion aside, I mean, "murder is bad" is hardly a value restricted only to people who believe in the Ten Commandments.

The thing about Kurt and killing is, it's not the act that bothers me, it's that it tends to make characters harden. Which I don't want for Kurt. But bad writers take a guy like Kurt and make him naive or moralistic. Kurt killed his brother before he was ever an X-man. I mean, come on. It wasn't on purpose but so what. He understands shades of gray. His best friend is freaking Wolverine!

Lol so pretty much I'm torn about that scene. I'm not the least bit upset that he shot Legion's brain, but I don't know if he had to be quite so dramatic about it. But overall I enjoyed the issue so, I'm just accepting what I've been given. :P What I definitely DO like is what motivated him to pull the trigger. It was more interesting than simple "protect someone" "save the world" etc.

In agreement with all of this.
Re-reading early issues of Uncanny is cast in a totally different light when you realise that Kurt killed Stefan just days before.
It makes reconciling early Kurt with the gentler, softer Kurt of later issues much easier; Charles had dropped a traumatised man into another country, into being a superhero without any preparation or experience. It’s really interesting (and fuel for at least a couple of my fanfics) and, as I’ve said before, I alway think of Nightcrawler as Kurt’s stage persona, Nightcrawler is the swashbuckling adventurer, while Kurt is the more introspective, philosophical book lover.

[From The Shadows]

Superhero stories have a problem with killing. On the one hand, "superheroes never kill." On the other, "glorify violence/revenge and the bad guy'll somehow wind up dead anyway... and then turn out to still be alive after all in a few years." It makes no sense. Hard and fast "no kill" rules might work for stories for little kids, but I think the trouble for Crawler is, that just doesn't make sense with the way the X-books have been written for a while now. Religion aside, I mean, "murder is bad" is hardly a value restricted only to people who believe in the Ten Commandments.

The thing about Kurt and killing is, it's not the act that bothers me, it's that it tends to make characters harden. Which I don't want for Kurt. But bad writers take a guy like Kurt and make him naive or moralistic. Kurt killed his brother before he was ever an X-man. I mean, come on. It wasn't on purpose but so what. He understands shades of gray. His best friend is freaking Wolverine!

Lol so pretty much I'm torn about that scene. I'm not the least bit upset that he shot Legion's brain, but I don't know if he had to be quite so dramatic about it. But overall I enjoyed the issue so, I'm just accepting what I've been given. :P What I definitely DO like is what motivated him to pull the trigger. It was more interesting than simple "protect someone" "save the world" etc.

I agree Stefan, Wolverine etc and another, "freaking," if you don't mind-- Excalibur should no longer be ignored and I hope this opened that door. Also, it also does not make sense when you realize that people with religious beliefs have willingly enlisted in the army and fought in wars. I also used to have a concern, going back and forth on this, I've seen more modern writers have characters killing willy-nilly then crying over it , or worse low brow approach to it. May be fine for Darkholme but its not what I want for our 616 Kurt.

[cinnaminion]

In agreement with all of this.
Re-reading early issues of Uncanny is cast in a totally different light when you realise that Kurt killed Stefan just days before.
It makes reconciling early Kurt with the gentler, softer Kurt of later issues much easier; Charles had dropped a traumatised man into another country, into being a superhero without any preparation or experience. It’s really interesting (and fuel for at least a couple of my fanfics) and, as I’ve said before, I alway think of Nightcrawler as Kurt’s stage persona, Nightcrawler is the swashbuckling adventurer, while Kurt is the more introspective, philosophical book lover.

Yup, the second gen team was chock full of issues, what with everyone being from all over the world. And though they skewed older than the O5, if anything, that makes things more difficult: when you're a kid you can get away with being emotional more easily, and when you're older you may have developed more tools/support system to handle it, but those in-between years where you're an adult but don't feel like it can be so hard to navigate. I specifically love the 2nd Gen team best because of stuff like this.

Nightcrawler as a persona he puts on is how I see it too. I think it's more than a mask - he's an actor, he likes dressing up and performing - but no one wants to live the performance all the time. I agree he's somewhat more thoughtful and philosophical when he's just himself. When I saw that panel where he's a bunch of different characters (the priest, the clown, the pirate crew, etc) in Wox #2, and Legion said "You're conflicted," I kinda felt like, well, people are multi-faceted, that doesn't mean he's more or less conflicted than anyone else :P (Though I think he probably is given the circumstances). I love Legion, pretty much thanks to his story with Blindfold which is one of my favs. But Legion rather ran the show this issue - which is to be expected. I just hope Kurt takes the reins back before too long haha.

I agree Stefan, Wolverine etc and another, "freaking," if you don't mind-- Excalibur should no longer be ignored and I hope this opened that door. Also, it also does not make sense when you realize that people with religious beliefs have willingly enlisted in the army and fought in wars. I also used to have a concern, going back and forth on this, I've seen more modern writers have characters killing willy-nilly then crying over it , or worse low brow approach to it. May be fine for Darkholme but its not what I want for our 616 Kurt.

The thing about religion and war is so, so true. I mean, religion's the catalyst for war half the time. Hypocrisy knows no faith.

With characters like Wolverine running around, "killing willy-nilly then crying over it," (very accurate picture haha) IDEK how we dig out of that hole. I suppose it's an inherent problem in action stories. Trying to condemn the same thing that makes the story exciting. Personally I don't see a great way out here. It's just a contradiction we have to live with and accept what we get from writers who do their best to write around it. You can still write moving, powerful stories in that framework, but the readers do have to choose to look past some things that happened in the past for it to work.

[Su_Whisterfield]

Yup, the second gen team was chock full of issues, what with everyone being from all over the world. And though they skewed older than the O5, if anything, that makes things more difficult: when you're a kid you can get away with being emotional more easily, and when you're older you may have developed more tools/support system to handle it, but those in-between years where you're an adult but don't feel like it can be so hard to navigate. I specifically love the 2nd Gen team best because of stuff like this.

Nightcrawler as a persona he puts on is how I see it too. I think it's more than a mask - he's an actor, he likes dressing up and performing - but no one wants to live the performance all the time. I agree he's somewhat more thoughtful and philosophical when he's just himself. When I saw that panel where he's a bunch of different characters (the priest, the clown, the pirate crew, etc) in Wox #2, and Legion said "You're conflicted," I kinda felt like, well, people are multi-faceted, that doesn't mean he's more or less conflicted than anyone else :P (Though I think he probably is given the circumstances). I love Legion, pretty much thanks to his story with Blindfold which is one of my favs. But Legion rather ran the show this issue - which is to be expected. I just hope Kurt takes the reins back before too long haha.



The thing about religion and war is so, so true. I mean, religion's the catalyst for war half the time. Hypocrisy knows no faith.

With characters like Wolverine running around, "killing willy-nilly then crying over it," (very accurate picture haha) IDEK how we dig out of that hole. I suppose it's an inherent problem in action stories. Trying to condemn the same thing that makes the story exciting. Personally I don't see a great way out here. It's just a contradiction we have to live with and accept what we get from writers who do their best to write around it. You can still write moving, powerful stories in that framework, but the readers do have to choose to look past some things that happened in the past for it to work.

I think the “You’re conflicted” was the turmoil on the ship, the cannon fire, the leviathan fighting them, the stormy sea, rather than the multiple aspects of Kurt’s personality being shown. I suspect, when not conflicted, Kurt runs a tighter ship.

[cinnaminion]

Eh, I think it was both, otherwise I don't quite get the point of bothering with multiple depictions of Nightcrawler in different costumes. While I'm sure his mind sea usually lacks the Kraken without the "poisoned coin" or whatever it was Legion thinks has gotten into the Krakoan's minds, I wonder if those different versions of him are better incorporated as well.

[Proxy]

Well, he had no choice, as David was about to lose control. And we know that Kurt takes responsibility seriously; if he’s in charge of a team, it’s down to him to do the deed. Plus, the resurrection protocols, and David’s blessing are mitigating factors.
Still, it would upset him, I suspect this is why he gets drunk at the Gala, which is a problematic coping mechanism, what he really needs is to talk to someone. Or a hug.

Superhero stories have a problem with killing. On the one hand, "superheroes never kill." On the other, "glorify violence/revenge and the bad guy'll somehow wind up dead anyway... and then turn out to still be alive after all in a few years." It makes no sense. Hard and fast "no kill" rules might work for stories for little kids, but I think the trouble for Crawler is, that just doesn't make sense with the way the X-books have been written for a while now. Religion aside, I mean, "murder is bad" is hardly a value restricted only to people who believe in the Ten Commandments.

The thing about Kurt and killing is, it's not the act that bothers me, it's that it tends to make characters harden. Which I don't want for Kurt. But bad writers take a guy like Kurt and make him naive or moralistic. Kurt killed his brother before he was ever an X-man. I mean, come on. It wasn't on purpose but so what. He understands shades of gray. His best friend is freaking Wolverine!

Lol so pretty much I'm torn about that scene. I'm not the least bit upset that he shot Legion's brain, but I don't know if he had to be quite so dramatic about it. But overall I enjoyed the issue so, I'm just accepting what I've been given. :P What I definitely DO like is what motivated him to pull the trigger. It was more interesting than simple "protect someone" "save the world" etc.

Loving all these takes, completely agree.

[Su_Whisterfield]

What if? Kurt as Sorcerer Supreme.
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[butterflykyss]

Hi friends! I know it may be a bit early to say but how are you guys liking Kurt's depiction in WoX?

[Su_Whisterfield]

Hi friends! I know it may be a bit early to say but how are you guys liking Kurt's depiction in WoX?

He’s been a bit of a passenger so far, that’s not a criticism, it’s the what he needs to be in this story; are seeing all the problems of Krakoa through Kurt’s eyes. We will for at least the next issue too.

This first arc is a five part story, so, hopefully he will come out on top by issue five.

I still miss him hanging out with his old team, his best friends, Kurt works as the perfect mirror to other characters (as he’s currently doing to Krakoa). I’m horrified by his current living conditions (sleeping on the floor in his little nest littered with beer bottles and books in the Tower) and that no one amongst his friends and family seem to have noticed how miserable he is.

I will be sad if we only get five issues, I think what Si is doing is very interesting and important critique of the current status quo.

[From The Shadows]

With Onslaught coming up I feel this is appropriate. This page by MAD is from Uncanny X-Men with Excalibur.



Unfortunately, there is a line through it. Must have been because I used MS Paint to crop it. Accident. Sorry, y'all.

EDIT: I decided to scan it again.

[From The Shadows]

Hi friends! I know it may be a bit early to say but how are you guys liking Kurt's depiction in WoX?

Its so- so but I still can't wait for next issue. This is the most Kurt has gotten in a while. I can't help but think its better than GS was but still sort of the same as it seems to be more about Legion so hopefully future issues we can focus on Kurt instead of just showing a panel or instead of pointing at an image like those Kurts on a ship. The "shocker" ending to last issue was enough of a start.

I say this as I still await the next issue.

[Su_Whisterfield]

Playing with Procreate again.
DE727AF0-6BE9-4A5C-8987-00875A0F731C.jpg