The Kurt Wagner / Nightcrawler Appreciation 2021

[Proxy]

Yup I've read both of those. Spurrier definitely knows how to catch my attention. The first time I read the top one, when I got to Nightcrawler "has an endless capacity to be conflicted" I was rolling with laughter. Bahaha. Sometimes the way they talk about Way of X makes it seem like a mystery novel - which is kinda par for the course with Nightcrawler books, he is good at being stealthy. But then there's the addition of taking stock of things at home and honestly I'm seduced the most by the idea of Crawler looking around and taking a step back and making his own decisions.

He's the kind of character who is always SAID to be someone who can lead as well as follow, but he often follows. And when they decide to let him be a rebel - we get something like in Civil War II where he surprises us by siding with someone other than his friends, but his reasoning is vague/hard to get on board with. Or it's like way back in Second Coming where he was all "I'm not into this" to Cyclops and was just told "Suck it up" and then died before he could do anything about what he didn't like. Then he's resurrected and, I'll admit, I didn't really want to see a new tiff over an old subject, but at the same time, "Nightcrawler's angry = nothing happens" pretty much just leads to his convictions looking petty, like he doesn't really fight for them. To be clear, I'm not REALLY trying to complain here, it's just something I've often felt whenever we're told "Nightcrawler's relevant in this story" and he just like, gets a sense of foreboding and then is shot and goes MIA or something...

So I feel seduced by Way of X, but I do need results from it Of any sort.

I think it depends on the story the writer wants to tell. I think Nightcrawler is often there to be the conscience or moral guide (and more often than not he’s right) but that can trap writers into a corner if he actually followed through and did anything about it. If Nightcrawler voices that something is wrong and then takes action to prevent it, then the X-men can’t get themselves into worst scrapes and the plot comes to a stand still. So the team has to note his opinion and then ignore it.

[Su_Whisterfield]

I think it depends on the story the writer wants to tell. I think Nightcrawler is often there to be the conscience or moral guide (and more often than not he’s right) but that can trap writers into a corner if he actually followed through and did anything about it. If Nightcrawler voices that something is wrong and then takes action to prevent it, then the X-men can’t get themselves into worst scrapes and the plot comes to a stand still. So the team has to note his opinion and then ignore it.

Yeah, this is why I don’t like Kurt (or Jean) to be called the heart or moral compass; it frequently handicaps the character.

Kurt is absolutely vital to the teams as a visible, tangible reason for their existence, to protect and help mutants who can’t pass as human, who don’t look like cat walk models. And Jean is a constant reminder of the mutants who need training for their own protection and everyone else's.

[cinnaminion]

That's interesting. I was very disappointed with Lemire's writting in Extraordinary. And X-Men Red was one of the few titles that I liked the past decade...

Lol, and this why I feel for the writers, it sure is hard to make everyone happy. For me, both Extraordinary and Red started off well - Red more than Ex. I liked the concept of Red, I loved Honey Badger being there with Laura, I loved Jean, and I loved Jean and Kurt's friendship. But it lost me so SO fast. In the days leading up to - I think it was Age of X? - I was pretty much yawning through it. As for Extraordinary, it did a ton of stuff I didn't like. I won't go into it right now but I was on the fence about for a while. However, it brought me back in latter arcs. I really loved the finale with Illyana, Sapna, and the World Eater. I do think both books were better than Gold.

Yeah, this is why I don’t like Kurt (or Jean) to be called the heart or moral compass; it frequently handicaps the character.

Kurt is absolutely vital to the teams as a visible, tangible reason for their existence, to protect and help mutants who can’t pass as human, who don’t look like cat walk models. And Jean is a constant reminder of the mutants who need training for their own protection and everyone else's.

Hard agree. The way you phrased their roles - that's to me what "heart" or "soul" of the team really ought to mean, a combination of what they individually bring to the team AND their personal commitments to their cause. I hate moral compass, that implies there are moral absolutes, and true good/true bad. For one thing, no one likes to be preached at, which seems to happen a lot unless the writer is really being thoughtful about how they go about it. And for another, like Proxy said, it's gonna lead to those characters being shelved fast so that the cool bad stuff can still go down. I can think of a few times Kurt did the conscience thing with Ororo that annoyed me because, yeah, I was on Ro's side. And though I'm often more on Kurt's side if he's doing it to Logan, it's demonstrably more effective when he just listens and lets Logan come to him etc. I do think many writers feel that way too though.

Something Spurrier said in the CBR interview that I liked: that Prof X in WoX #1 says something like, "You understand people very well" to Kurt. It's suggested that though, telepaths can read minds, that window into thoughts doesn't necessarily mean a window into the heart, inner motivations, anxieties... Idk. That kind of thing is up to writerly interpretation, I think. But I do like it. I like that being Kurt's strong point: he's highly empathetic and that's why he can be such good friends with so many people. He's easy to trust. That is a different quality than being a "moral compass."

[Su_Whisterfield]

Lol, and this why I feel for the writers, it sure is hard to make everyone happy. For me, both Extraordinary and Red started off well - Red more than Ex. I liked the concept of Red, I loved Honey Badger being there with Laura, I loved Jean, and I loved Jean and Kurt's friendship. But it lost me so SO fast. In the days leading up to - I think it was Age of X? - I was pretty much yawning through it. As for Extraordinary, it did a ton of stuff I didn't like. I won't go into it right now but I was on the fence about for a while. However, it brought me back in latter arcs. I really loved the finale with Illyana, Sapna, and the World Eater. I do think both books were better than Gold.



Hard agree. The way you phrased their roles - that's to me what "heart" or "soul" of the team really ought to mean, a combination of what they individually bring to the team AND their personal commitments to their cause. I hate moral compass, that implies there are moral absolutes, and true good/true bad. For one thing, no one likes to be preached at, which seems to happen a lot unless the writer is really being thoughtful about how they go about it. And for another, like Proxy said, it's gonna lead to those characters being shelved fast so that the cool bad stuff can still go down. I can think of a few times Kurt did the conscience thing with Ororo that annoyed me because, yeah, I was on Ro's side. And though I'm often more on Kurt's side if he's doing it to Logan, it's demonstrably more effective when he just listens and lets Logan come to him etc. I do think many writers feel that way too though.

Something Spurrier said in the CBR interview that I liked: that Prof X in WoX #1 says something like, "You understand people very well" to Kurt. It's suggested that though, telepaths can read minds, that window into thoughts doesn't necessarily mean a window into the heart, inner motivations, anxieties... Idk. That kind of thing is up to writerly interpretation, I think. But I do like it. I like that being Kurt's strong point: he's highly empathetic and that's why he can be such good friends with so many people. He's easy to trust. That is a different quality than being a "moral compass."

I think understanding people is one of Kurt’s gifts, it’s also a survival technique. Looking as he does, he raises high, sometimes dangerous, emotional reactions in people. He needs to be able to judge an audience to know if he’s going to have to save his skin in the next few minutes.
We forget, the fans, the artists, even the authors most of the time, that Kurt looksstrange and humans don’t always react well to strane looking people.

[cinnaminion]

I think understanding people is one of Kurt’s gifts, it’s also a survival technique. Looking as he does, he raises high, sometimes dangerous, emotional reactions in people. He needs to be able to judge an audience to know if he’s going to have to save his skin in the next few minutes.
We forget, the fans, the artists, even the authors most of the time, that Kurt looksstrange and humans don’t always react well to strane looking people.

YUPPPPP exactly. He's naturally friendly, naturally a people person, and yet he's also introspective and careful - and the carefulness is certainly learned behavior to navigate being an obvious mutant since he was born. Even when he first joined the X-men, he would act like an exaggeration of himself to try to make others feel comfortable and like him. His confidence grew over the years and now he doesn't try so hard, but that's not something that just goes away - once you've learned to try to step into another's shoes and see how they're looking at you, you can do it forever. It can be anxiety-inducing, but one of the good things about Kurt is that he's always had an inner love for himself - he never hated his appearance, just the way others reacted to it. (Although, he's certainly had his dark moments, he is human.) So he's now able to channel what he takes in about others into understanding them, rather than just trying to protect himself etc. Ideally, anyway. He's still got his own biases and belief system to work from same as anyone, so it's not perfect, but it's something.

[Su_Whisterfield]

YUPPPPP exactly. He's naturally friendly, naturally a people person, and yet he's also introspective and careful - and the carefulness is certainly learned behavior to navigate being an obvious mutant since he was born. Even when he first joined the X-men, he would act like an exaggeration of himself to try to make others feel comfortable and like him. His confidence grew over the years and now he doesn't try so hard, but that's not something that just goes away - once you've learned to try to step into another's shoes and see how they're looking at you, you can do it forever. It can be anxiety-inducing, but one of the good things about Kurt is that he's always had an inner love for himself - he never hated his appearance, just the way others reacted to it. (Although, he's certainly had his dark moments, he is human.) So he's now able to channel what he takes in about others into understanding them, rather than just trying to protect himself etc. Ideally, anyway. He's still got his own biases and belief system to work from same as anyone, so it's not perfect, but it's something.

My personal head canon is that Nightcrawler is Kurt’s stage persona. Nightcrawler is the swashbuckling superhero who knows no fear. Kurt is more introspective, quieter, calmer. It’s not a split personality, but it’s a definite choice, he wears Nightcrawler like armour against the world and it’s only when he knows he’s safe that he lets it drop.

[From The Shadows]

My personal head canon is that Nightcrawler is Kurt’s stage persona. Nightcrawler is the swashbuckling superhero who knows no fear. Kurt is more introspective, quieter, calmer. It’s not a split personality, but it’s a definite choice, he wears Nightcrawler like armour against the world and it’s only when he knows he’s safe that he lets it drop.

I think part of that Nightcrawler "stage" image may do with the fact that he looks like a blue and fuzzy demon (though an elf to his friends - and I imagine some of us).

But to heart and soul now, Jean and Kurt - I don't mind seeing them that way and I don't think it has to actually be the same as being a moral compass. I also think moral compass can pidgeon hole Kurt and I want him to be closer to Ellis (616) Kurt most days. He didn't mind giving Black Air what for.

I have a question. Did anyone read the event Extermination? How was it? As a Kurt fan, was it worth getting? How was it on the whole?

[Su_Whisterfield]

New Way of X art.
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[Su_Whisterfield]

First scripted pages up at AIPT.
Si says they’re out of order.
Beware of spoilers.
https://aiptcomics.com/2021/03/26/ma...ok-way-of-x-1/

[From The Shadows]

In the piraty theme that seems to be coming out way via Way of X.

Fanart, really like Larbesta.



Semi-old cover.

[cinnaminion]

Thoughts after reading WoX preview pages - I'll put it all in a spoilers tag in case anyone's avoiding them...

spoilers:

"I'm pleased you're back in the field, Kurt. You've been too much in your own head lately." Bahaha. I don't really like when writers do minor fourth wall breaking stuff like that - "oh yeah, we know the fans feel that way, so let's mention ICly" but it still made me snort. Though it's now suggested that the reason Kurt's not been involved so much is by his own choice. I do not understand Pixie's expression while she talks about cheese toastie. We're coming in swinging with the religious stuff - not sure how I feel about that. I get it's a central concept in this book, but it's also so easy to hit the nail too hard there... I assume Pixie's going to try and probably succeed at her "first time" and that'll be important for verifying the Patchwork man etc. ETA: also "we upgraded morality and beat mortality sooo your personal belief system is now moot" like way to make Kurt feel irrelevant! I kinda look forward to him being all "is it me am I the killjoy" in the future.

end of spoilers

Overall I think I liked it.

[Su_Whisterfield]

Thoughts after reading WoX preview pages - I'll put it all in a spoilers tag in case anyone's avoiding them...

spoilers:

"I'm pleased you're back in the field, Kurt. You've been too much in your own head lately." Bahaha. I don't really like when writers do minor fourth wall breaking stuff like that - "oh yeah, we know the fans feel that way, so let's mention ICly" but it still made me snort. Though it's now suggested that the reason Kurt's not been involved so much is by his own choice. I do not understand Pixie's expression while she talks about cheese toastie. We're coming in swinging with the religious stuff - not sure how I feel about that. I get it's a central concept in this book, but it's also so easy to hit the nail too hard there... I assume Pixie's going to try and probably succeed at her "first time" and that'll be important for verifying the Patchwork man etc. ETA: also "we upgraded morality and beat mortality sooo your personal belief system is now moot" like way to make Kurt feel irrelevant! I kinda look forward to him being all "is it me am I the killjoy" in the future.

end of spoilers

Overall I think I liked it.

Yeah, I think this book will address lot’s of questions I have about Krakoa. Which is cool.

[Su_Whisterfield]

In the piraty theme that seems to be coming out way via Way of X.

Fanart, really like Larbesta.

Oh! I love little circus Kurt!

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[Proxy]

After reading the preview script I’m thinking the first issue is going to be a good setup for how the books going to move forward.

Kurt has to question where he places his faith in the changed world
How the younger mutants culture is changing and where pre-existing morals lie within it
Pixies journey of her new identity on Krakoa (a lot of the exchanges felt very much like peer pressure)
And set up for the Patchwork man.

Lots of intrigue, lots of questions. Hoping we get to see a nice portion of action too.

[From The Shadows]

Way of X is soon peeps! It's nearly the end of March!