The Defenders Appreciation 2021

[kcekada]

I liked Kyle for different reasons -- but he was never near Batman level-- aside from being loosely based on that character. Even though in hindsight his contributions mostly amounted to lodging and a meeting space, he liked being part of that group. I think Englehart and Gerber were fond of the character as well. Even David Kraft wrote some nice stories using Kyle.I guess it was Dematteis who had no use for the character and 'killed him'.

Too many readers just dismiss Nighthawk for not being Batman (unlike the Supreme Power version), but I think they are selling him short - especially in terms of adding interest to the group dynamics. Also, he and Patsy played well off each other. I think they may have become a pair had David Kraft stayed with the series.

[Phoenixx9]

I would consider Nighthawk as well, especially as he was the first one that really tried to organise the group as a genuine established team. Plus he’s probably the only longtime member (along with the Surfer) that never ran off to join the Avengers.

I would love Kyle Richmond, whether in his Nighthawk guise or not to come back and be part of any new Defenders book.

Oh I love Kyle as Nighthawk, especially in those early years. I hated what Marvel did to him with the 6-fingered hand story and onward. (Marvel screwed over just about every one of their characters at some time or another it seems.) But he did not become a member to about issue 14 or so, which was about 2.5 years after everyone else. In light of that, my man Luke Cage Power Man appeared in #17. While he did not become a member then, he did join a few years later. So an extended early team could consist of both Nighthawk and Power Man

[ed2962]

Was the Surfer one of the original Defenders? I always thought that Dr Strange,the Sub-Mariner and the Hulk were the 3 original members

I think Roy Thomas wanted Silver Surfer to be a regular member but Stan Lee told him no, so the Surfer just guest starred a few times in the early issues.

[Phoenixx9]

I think Roy Thomas wanted Silver Surfer to be a regular member but Stan Lee told him no, so the Surfer just guest starred a few times in the early issues.

Yes, I have heard this story too. Lee loved the Surfer as his best character and did not want anyone else to write him. Which is a shame since I really like how the Surfer was shown in those early Defenders. His power was needed and provided a contrast to the physical and mystic powers of the other members.

[Nomads1]

Was the Surfer one of the original Defenders? I always thought that Dr Strange,the Sub-Mariner and the Hulk were the 3 original members

Good question Ken Ashcroft. You may get 2 answers: No and Yes.

The team of Dr Strange, Namor and Hulk (no SS) first appeared in Marvel Feature stories (3 in total, if I remember correctly) as the Defenders.

However, when the official Defenders book started shortly thereafter, Silver Surfer was indeed present. Within a few issues, Valkyrie became the fifth member of the Defenders.

I don't think Silver Surfer actually appears in the first issue of the Defenders book, except as someone who attacked Namor off panel, IIRC.

Well, it's even a bit more complicated than that. There were two proto-Defenders groups also. The first was a weird cross over between the Doctor Strange, Hulk and Sub-Mariner titles. Basically, Roy Thomas 'started' a story in the last issue of Doctor Strange, the plotlines showed up in Hulk, and then finished off in Subby 22 -- AND it involved Barbara Norriss (and the Nameless One), so technically Val's body is involved.

After that, there was a two issue arc in Namor's book (33 and 34 IIRC), where Namor gathered the Hulk and Silver Surfer together (in an issue titled Titans Three) to save earth from a dysfunctional weather control station the Americans were about to go online with, and they fought the Avengers!

In none of these stories are they referred to as the team Defenders, but they are often included in Defenders collections.

All of that is true. The Surfer was a member of the proto-Defenders, with Hulk and Subby. He was in the first story arc of the Defenders Mag. However, I always considered him a Defenders founding member for one simple reason. When the Defenders got together in Marvel Features, it was Doc. Strange's intent to summon the Surfer for the mission. Namor recomended him. Only when the Surfer proved temporarily unavaliable, due to being momentarily incapacitated after colliding with Galactus' invisible barrier, did they seek out the Hulk. So, if not for a moment, the Surfer would have been at that Defenders first mission. In my mind, it was always a fair justification, even more than his stint on the Titanic Three or his role on the first issues of the Defenders mag, for him to be considered a founding member (in spirit, even if not exactly in body).

Peace

[Hcmarvel]

The Defenders is a fascinating book for me. I'm pretty well read in Marvel from Fantastic Four #1 on up but I have a few major black holes. Ghost Rider's whole universe is one. Most of Alpha Flight is another. And The Defenders, outside of the Avengers/Defenders War, is a huge black hole for me.

For a book that has such major characters in it initially and then transitions to a weird X-Men/Marvel Cast off hybrid in its later years, it hasn't left a visible footprint in the current Marvel Universe.

I'm excited to see what Al Ewing does with the property as there is obviously a ton of it that Marvel has not mined for all its worth. So it's ripe for someone like Ewing to excavate the book and modernize some of the stories.

What are some highlights of the Defenders original series? And was Busiek/Larson's reboot in the early 2000s any good? What about Fraction's version? What are some recommendations for someone new to The Defenders?

[Phoenixx9]

The Defenders is a fascinating book for me. I'm pretty well read in Marvel from Fantastic Four #1 on up but I have a few major black holes. Ghost Rider's whole universe is one. Most of Alpha Flight is another. And The Defenders, outside of the Avengers/Defenders War, is a huge black hole for me.

For a book that has such major characters in it initially and then transitions to a weird X-Men/Marvel Cast off hybrid in its later years, it hasn't left a visible footprint in the current Marvel Universe.

I'm excited to see what Al Ewing does with the property as there is obviously a ton of it that Marvel has not mined for all its worth. So it's ripe for someone like Ewing to excavate the book and modernize some of the stories.

What are some highlights of the Defenders original series? And was Busiek/Larson's reboot in the early 2000s any good? What about Fraction's version? What are some recommendations for someone new to The Defenders?

I am excited for the new book, but I hope it is done well with great stories, artwork, not a rushed pace and some continuity. We shall see.....

I love that the Defenders is a hidden Gem in the middle of the MU! It was originally and still remains the case. That is part of the "magic" that I feel the original series had (and not just because Doc Strange was on the scene!).

As for the highlights of the original series? Well, yes, there are some. For me, the first 20 issues are the best!

Then there are these stories: The Sons of the Serpents, The Headmen, Valkyrie (Barbara Norriss) thrown in jail for battling a monster with her sword, destroying a Manhattan Posh Penthouse Restaurant in the process, The Zodiak and the Emissaries of Evil, just to name a few. Valkyrie goes to college!, then battles Lunatik. Defenders for a Day! Too many guest stars and appearances to list! Later Val battles the Enchantress for her soul and finally reunites into her own immortal body (Brunhilde). Many characters joined and/or helped out the Defenders. Nighthawk, Power Man, Yellowjacket, Damon Hellstorm, Red Guardian (Tania)/Starlight, Hellcat, even Ms Marvel (Carol), Wasp, Moondragon, and later on Ghost Rider, Dracula, Beast, Iceman, Gargoyle and Cloud.

WHEW! I am tired now remembering all of those great stories, lol!

[Nomads1]

What are some highlights of the Defenders original series? And was Busiek/Larson's reboot in the early 2000s any good? What about Fraction's version? What are some recommendations for someone new to The Defenders?

For me, the first 50 issue or so, are fantastic. Len Wein and Steve Englehart in the beggining are those classic Marvel stories. The Defenders were a less stable Avengers, with a lot of odd characaters, characters you don't see fitting well in a team setting, or even in a different team setting in some cases, comming and going. Then came Steve Gerber. Some of the most seminal Defenders stories came during that era. The original GotG were reintroduced to the larger Marvel Universe. The female Red Guardian, Luke Cage as a "hired Defender", the crazy Headman saga. Great. Then came Gerry Conway, giving the team, agian, a more typical super-hero, Avengers-like vibe. He didn't stay long (long enough to intruduce the Emissaries of Evil, the Defenders version of the Masters of Evil). Then came David Kraft, and, while Keith Giffen was around, it was fine, but it soon became kind of boring for me. Even the Zodiac Saga which culminated in issue #50, I found it had the potential to be MUCH more. The book became kinfd of uneven along the following years, up until J.M. DeMattteis came aboard. Starting with the Six Fingered Hand saga, and the iissue that preceeded it, the stories became odd, again, like during the Gerber years, however, with a deeper exploration of the characterization. Don Perlin was a capable, however, not very flashy enough penciler, and he stuck with the book right up till the end. I could not help but wonder how the book would have fared with someone like Mike Zeck, John Byrne, Paul Smith, Kerry Gammil, Jim Starlin, Bob Hall,newcommer Paul Ryan, George Perez, or even Sal Buscema as the regular penciler. Still, those were some great stories. DeMatteis left right after the book became The New Defenders (does anybody know why? Was he against the change, even though he wrote it, or something?). I liked New Defenders, but much more for the potential I always thought the book had, but never truely achieved. I'm that way with a lot of books.
As for the Larsen/Busiek revival, I loved it. Really wish Marvel would collect it in TPB, alongside The Order six issue mini that came right after it. It's not as good as the preceeding Defenders series, but both books together form a pretty cool 18 issue storyline. Not a fan of Fraction, so I have never read his Defenders series.

Peace

[Adam-X]

Not a fan of Fraction, so I have never read his Defenders series.
Peace

Issue #1 starts with Strange sleeping with one of his college students or some such - if that tells you anything. Only issue I got - never even got past page 3 before I literally threw it in the trash.

[Triniking1234]

Apparently there was a spin-off book called 'The Order' but I haven't seen much info on it. What was that about?

[your_name_here]

Apparently there was a spin-off book called 'The Order' but I haven't seen much info on it. What was that about?

The Order is separate and ties in to The Initative. Nothing Defenders related.

[Lee Stone]

What are some highlights of the Defenders original series? And was Busiek/Larson's reboot in the early 2000s any good? What about Fraction's version? What are some recommendations for someone new to The Defenders?

For me, it would be the latter half, from #92 until the end of the series.
It really dipped into the Rosemary’s Baby side of supernatural horror for a while, and the team kept a pretty strong mystical element from that point on.

[Adam-X]

The Order is separate and ties in to The Initative. Nothing Defenders related.

I believe you're thinking of the wrong "The Order" - There was this which you're thinking of - but there was also The Order from 2002, which is definitely Defenders related.

Apparently there was a spin-off book called 'The Order' but I haven't seen much info on it. What was that about?

It sort of ties to the Defenders. The original roster (Doctor Strange, Hulk, Silver Surfer, Namor) broke up in the original Defenders run - because it was prophesied or some such - that if they remained a team the world would end.

So they broke up to save the world. As heroes do.

Fast forward to many years later, with The Order (from 2002, the original series) - the original roster is sick of the world and all the issues - and decide - screw the prophecy - let's just take over the world.

And that's what they set out to do.

Highly recommended.

[Reviresco]

The Order is separate and ties in to The Initative. Nothing Defenders related.

Well, they did fight Namor, but he wasn't acting as a Defender. But yes, what Adam-X said -- different Order.

I believe you're thinking of the wrong "The Order" - There was this which you're thinking of - but there was also The Order from 2002, which is definitely Defenders related.



It sort of ties to the Defenders. The original roster (Doctor Strange, Hulk, Silver Surfer, Namor) broke up in the original Defenders run - because it was prophesied or some such - that if they remained a team the world would end.

So they broke up to save the world. As heroes do.

Fast forward to many years later, with The Order (from 2002, the original series) - the original roster is sick of the world and all the issues - and decide - screw the prophecy - let's just take over the world.

And that's what they set out to do.

Highly recommended.

The Busiek Order was definitely a direct continuation of the Busiek Larsen run. And the original roster didn't exactly "decide" to take over. They were ... influenced to do so.

[Nomads1]

The Busiek Order was definitely a direct continuation of the Busiek Larsen run. And the original roster didn't exactly "decide" to take over. They were ... influenced to do so.

That's the one I mentioned in my comment. I didn't think it as good as the Defenders series it continues, but it's an okay story, and when you read both series as one single story, it's great.

Peace