King Spawn vs Marvel comics

[Spiderfan001]

So King Spawns Pre-order Sales seem to be extremely high and Todd Mcflaren says it can take the Avengers.Thoughts on why so?

I mean theoretically speaking many Marvel and DC characters are much more popular than Spawn and should be able to take him in sales right?

Possible reasons(just stuff I've seen floating around before and around this, not my opinion)

1)Simplicity:-Marvel and DC have way too complex history and are difficult to get into or keep up with
2)Writing:-Comics stories aren't what they once were, iconic stories from the past far out number ones written in the present and general quality seems down.Way too many cashgrab events and stupid ideas put in play for the headline grabbing factor at the cost good stories
3)Agendas:- Woke stuff, pandering to twitter crowds, etc. which makes already present comic readers go away while twitter crowds pirate or just don't read comics at all thus decrease in sales.
4)Deaths and legacies:-Killing characters for shock value and unnecessary replacements that are much worse than the original and then the original is brought back
very soon but replacement is kept anyway.Death has lost all meaning

Do you think it is any of these reasons? or something else entirely?
Also am I missing something important regarding this situation

[dkrook]

So King Spawns Pre-order Sales seem to be extremely high and Todd Mcflaren says it can take the Avengers.Thoughts on why so?

I mean theoretically speaking many Marvel and DC characters are much more popular than Spawn and should be able to take him in sales right?

Possible reasons(just stuff I've seen floating around before and around this, not my opinion)

1)Simplicity:-Marvel and DC have way too complex history and are difficult to get into or keep up with
2)Writing:-Comics stories aren't what they once were, iconic stories from the past far out number ones written in the present and general quality seems down.Way too many cashgrab events and stupid ideas put in play for the headline grabbing factor at the cost good stories
3)Agendas:- Woke stuff, pandering to twitter crowds, etc. which makes already present comic readers go away while twitter crowds pirate or just don't read comics at all thus decrease in sales.
4)Deaths and legacies:-Killing characters for shock value and unnecessary replacements that are much worse than the original and then the original is brought back
very soon but replacement is kept anyway.Death has lost all meaning

Do you think it is any of these reasons? or something else entirely?
Also am I missing something important regarding this situation

Good question you posed, but I was thinking about my reply. I wanted to know what is woke agenda?

[FFJamie94]

It's simple, Spawn is a product of the 90's that sells well in landmark issues and surrounding issues, but not that well in the long run.
Spawn 300 was the first time Spawn felt relevant in 20 years, so #1s will sell out.
It's got nothing to do with any of the reasons you mentioned and it's purely spectator nostalgia. Spawn spin off books get quickly forgotten anyway, so I fully expect King Spawn to reach 25 issues before it's never mentioned again.

This is coming from someone who would consider themselves a Spawn fan and have preordered two copies.

[Username taken]

It's simple, Spawn is a product of the 90's that sells well in landmark issues and surrounding issues, but not that well in the long run.
Spawn 300 was the first time Spawn felt relevant in 20 years, so #1s will sell out.
It's got nothing to do with any of the reasons you mentioned and it's purely spectator nostalgia. Spawn spin off books get quickly forgotten anyway, so I fully expect King Spawn to reach 25 issues before it's never mentioned again.

This is coming from someone who would consider themselves a Spawn fan and have preordered two copies.

It really is as simple as this.

[Spiderfan001]

It's simple, Spawn is a product of the 90's that sells well in landmark issues and surrounding issues, but not that well in the long run.
Spawn 300 was the first time Spawn felt relevant in 20 years, so #1s will sell out.
It's got nothing to do with any of the reasons you mentioned and it's purely spectator nostalgia. Spawn spin off books get quickly forgotten anyway, so I fully expect King Spawn to reach 25 issues before it's never mentioned again.

This is coming from someone who would consider themselves a Spawn fan and have preordered two copies.

Oh, that makes sense.So it's just does well for landmark issues.
But why is that it sells well in landmarks, and why don't more popular characters sell as good in landmarks?

[Username taken]

So King Spawns Pre-order Sales seem to be extremely high and Todd Mcflaren says it can take the Avengers.Thoughts on why so?

I mean theoretically speaking many Marvel and DC characters are much more popular than Spawn and should be able to take him in sales right?

Possible reasons(just stuff I've seen floating around before and around this, not my opinion)

1)Simplicity:-Marvel and DC have way too complex history and are difficult to get into or keep up with
2)Writing:-Comics stories aren't what they once were, iconic stories from the past far out number ones written in the present and general quality seems down.Way too many cashgrab events and stupid ideas put in play for the headline grabbing factor at the cost good stories
3)Agendas:- Woke stuff, pandering to twitter crowds, etc. which makes already present comic readers go away while twitter crowds pirate or just don't read comics at all thus decrease in sales.
4)Deaths and legacies:-Killing characters for shock value and unnecessary replacements that are much worse than the original and then the original is brought back
very soon but replacement is kept anyway.Death has lost all meaning

Do you think it is any of these reasons? or something else entirely?
Also am I missing something important regarding this situation

Spawn is NOT simple to get into at all.

I've read Spawn since issue 1 about 30 years ago and it has as dense as a history as any solo title.

And what is this woke agenda? It sounds like a right-wing talking point.

[Username taken]

Oh, that makes sense.So it's just does well for landmark issues.
But why is that it sells well in landmarks, and why don't more popular characters sell as good in landmarks?

They generally do.

This is a hyped up new launch with multiple covers, they always sell big.

Marvel's new Star Wars sold over a million copies a few years ago. I believe one of Donny Cates Carnage series also sold huge a year or two ago (I can't remember which one).

[Spiderfan001]

Good question you posed, but I was thinking about my reply. I wanted to know what is woke agenda?

The new warriors are a good example of "woke" agenda.

Forced Diversity is related to this as well but not much.I should point out that a lot of people will call anything diverse forced diversity when it isn't.A good example is JK Rowling announcing that Dumbledore is into guys after the books are done.
I also think retconning characters s*xuality after decades of their existence as not is kinda forced specially when already existing lgbtq+ characters are being ignored or underused.I feel Tim is a bit forced, the way they broke his relationship with Steph off panel for no reason.The way DC didn't know what to do with him and was underused and is brought back for this.As opposed to Kitty Pryde who has heavily hinted at and was planned, that was great imo.

As for retconning s*xuality I feel anyone that is like 25+ in universe and 45-50+ years in real time and been in more than one active relationship shouldn't be retconned like this ever.Any one younger and not been intimate a lot may work depending on execution(not like Tim, like kitty pryde).Like any younger character, specially under 21 can be retconned if execution is there.

[Spiderfan001]

They generally do.

This is a hyped up new launch with multiple covers, they always sell big.

Marvel's new Star Wars sold over a million copies a few years ago. I believe one of Donny Cates Carnage series also sold huge a year or two ago (I can't remember which one).

Oh okay.I get it, I think...

But why doesn't marvel hype up their landmark issues then.... they have far more popular characters.

[FFJamie94]

Oh, that makes sense.So it's just does well for landmark issues.
But why is that it sells well in landmarks, and why don't more popular characters sell as good in landmarks?

Simply put, Spawn is considered legendary, but not good. Even fans of the book will tell you it's not a good book to read. Most People know of Spawn and buy an issue because it's Spawn. Getting to 300 issues is an achievement in on itself. I'm sure when Amazing Spider-Man gets to #1000 it will be a record breaking comic.

Spawn is also near impossible to get into to the point where you almost can't take it too seriously. It has retcons everywhere due to legal issues and pettiness, to the point where an integral cast member is now in the Marvel Universe.
That and Todd isn't a very good writer. If you see anyone who says he is the best writer, chances are, they probably don't read a lot of good comics. But that's fine, it adds to the charm. He is a good artist and good businessman. But he is the weakest link in the Spawn canon. It's especially daunting as he throws away anything he didn't write.

Trust me when I say the best period of Spawn was when someone else wrote and drew the book.

[FFJamie94]

The new warriors are a good example of "woke" agenda.

Forced Diversity is related to this as well but not much.I should point out that a lot of people will call anything diverse forced diversity when it isn't.A good example is JK Rowling announcing that Dumbledore is into guys after the books are done.
I also think retconning characters s*xuality after decades of their existence as not is kinda forced specially when already existing lgbtq+ characters are being ignored or underused.I feel Tim is a bit forced, the way they broke his relationship with Steph off panel for no reason.The way DC didn't know what to do with him and was underused and is brought back for this.As opposed to Kitty Pryde who has heavily hinted at and was planned, that was great imo.

As for retconning s*xuality I feel anyone that is like 25+ in universe and 45-50+ years in real time and been in more than one active relationship shouldn't be retconned like this ever.Any one younger and not been intimate a lot may work depending on execution(not like Tim, like kitty pryde).Like any younger character, specially under 21 can be retconned if execution is there.

Okay but New Warriors didn't even come out. I don't get why People still bring up a book that was cancelled. If your best example is a book that doesn't exist, then you don't have an example. You have an idea that was rejected. I honestly found it funny really.

[Spiderfan001]

Okay but New Warriors didn't even come out. I don't get why People still bring up a book that was cancelled. If your best example is a book that doesn't exist, then you don't have an example. You have an idea that was rejected. I honestly found it funny really.

No, it was an idea that was so bad that it got cancelled.I gave said example because it is the perfect one for what was asked from me by another user.It highlights everything wrong with "woke" agenda and why it doesn't work.
People bring it up because Marvel thought that it would work, the response was a reality check.

Great that you find it funny, but if you have nothing meaningful to add to a conversation going on between me and another user, do me a favor and please ignore it.

Another example of woke agenda being harmful that is published a lot is She-Hulk's character destroyed and the message is that She is happy to be ugly because she didn't like people looking at her when she was attractive.Her entire character was that Jen was shy and She-Hulk made her confident.They did an entire 180 on her character for their agenda.You can go to her thread and other places where you find She-hulk fans, they will confirm this, none of them want this change.

[Username taken]

Oh okay.I get it, I think...

But why doesn't marvel hype up their landmark issues then.... they have far more popular characters.

They do.

Just that it's a bigger deal because Spawn is an indepedent title.

[Spiderfan001]

They do.

Just that it's a bigger deal because Spawn is an indepedent title.

Oh okay.I guess that makes sense.Thanks

[Username taken]

Simply put, Spawn is considered legendary, but not good. Even fans of the book will tell you it's not a good book to read. Most People know of Spawn and buy an issue because it's Spawn. Getting to 300 issues is an achievement in on itself. I'm sure when Amazing Spider-Man gets to #1000 it will be a record breaking comic.

Spawn is also near impossible to get into to the point where you almost can't take it too seriously. It has retcons everywhere due to legal issues and pettiness, to the point where an integral cast member is now in the Marvel Universe.
That and Todd isn't a very good writer. If you see anyone who says he is the best writer, chances are, they probably don't read a lot of good comics. But that's fine, it adds to the charm. He is a good artist and good businessman. But he is the weakest link in the Spawn canon. It's especially daunting as he throws away anything he didn't write.

Trust me when I say the best period of Spawn was when someone else wrote and drew the book.

Quoted for the absolute truth.

When you talk of convoluted storyline and plots and retcons, Spawn is right up.

And Spawn has been absolutely TERRIBLE for long stretches. Seriously, after the first 20 issues to around issue 80, the title was just about Simmons aimlessly roaming about and stumbling from one event to another. All while he was stalking his wife and her new husband.

Other writers have done much, much better on the title. Even the current storyline (which is being written by Todd) isn't great.