Ben Reilly: Scarlet Spider Appreciation 2021

[NC_Yankee]

a spiderman without quips is not a spiderman.

Exactly. That is a problem I had with Spencer. No humor. Making fun of bad guys ( especially Otto and Doom because of their arrogance) was something I always enjoyed about Spider-Man. His writing was too PC/Hyper sensitive.

[Spiderfan001]

Exactly. That is a problem I had with Spencer. No humor. Making fun of bad guys ( especially Otto and Doom because of their arrogance) was something I always enjoyed about Spider-Man. His writing was too PC/Hyper sensitive.

That's marvel editorial for you imo.
That and this run has been dark af

[HypnoHustler]

I read the FCBD story. It was decent, if short and not that remarkable. It’s funny that Ben ended up in the same state where Kaine used to be based. Ben read like 1990s Ben and not Slott/PAD’s NuBen, which I’m thankful about. And Ben’s blonde is back! I always thought Ben’s return was missing that element… finally. Ben is our Spider Super Saiyan! Kinda mean how Beyond mocked his SS outfit, but they are evil I suppose. I will definitely be following what happens to our boy in ASM 75. Feel a lot more confident about this than I did after the first issue of PAD’s SS series, that’s for sure.

[Blanks]

I got my second Covid shot on Friday so I wasn’t able to go to free conic book day on Saturday (headaches and tiredness…) but I know my shop kept me a copy. They know I get all Ben Reilly appearances. Shop owner sent me a comment over Facebook telling me he set me aside one, lol. So I’m gonna wait until Wednesday with my regular purchases to pick it up and read it.

[IamnotJudasTraveller]

And Ben’s blonde is back! I always thought Ben’s return was missing that element… finally.

I guess it's the ultimate indictment on how editorial couldn't give less of anything to the PAD run when we had panels like these:

Abby's literally asking Ben why did he change his hair, then he says he doesn't want to be mistook for Peter (who's literally running Parker Industries at this point) and she says she doesn't because "her hair might fall off". And he spends the rest of the run not blonde, when his hair cut (which is the only thing that could justify that line) stays the same.

I flipped through the run recently one more time and it's kinda shocking just how "do whatever" it was even as art goes, since even Ben's scars disappear for one issue. You wouldn't even know if that meant he kinda fixed things enough for the scar to go away or something.

[Webhead]

I guess it's the ultimate indictment on how editorial couldn't give less of anything to the PAD run when we had panels like these:

Abby's literally asking Ben why did he change his hair, then he says he doesn't want to be mistook for Peter (who's literally running Parker Industries at this point) and she says she doesn't because "her hair might fall off". And he spends the rest of the run not blonde, when his hair cut (which is the only thing that could justify that line) stays the same.

I flipped through the run recently one more time and it's kinda shocking just how "do whatever" it was even as art goes, since even Ben's scars disappear for one issue. You wouldn't even know if that meant he kinda fixed things enough for the scar to go away or something.

I like PAD's Spider-Man work, especially the early stuff, but that series always read like he was phoning it in. Considering he never had warm words for the Clone Saga I wonder if editorial even thought before choosing him.

[Spiderfan001]

I like PAD's Spider-Man work, especially the early stuff, but that series always read like he was phoning it in. Considering he never had warm words for the Clone Saga I wonder if editorial even thought before choosing him.

What would you say is best Ben run or arcs.If I'm gonna go into beyond I should read some Ben stuff.

And does anyone have warm feelings about Clone saga.The clone bros(specifically Kaine) got better after that IIRC.

[bob.schoonover]

What would you say is best Ben run or arcs.If I'm gonna go into beyond I should read some Ben stuff.

And does anyone have warm feelings about Clone saga.The clone bros(specifically Kaine) got better after that IIRC.

The Lost Years and Redemption minis are probably the easiest Ben stories to get into and also quite good. The beginning of the Ben Reilly era (the contents of the first BR omnibus, more or less) is also quite good - you just have to accept that Ben is Spider-man and kind of roll with it.

I think the first part of the Clone Saga (maybe up through the Mark of Kaine or the Trial of Peter Parker? Probably not the Trial . . .) holds up pretty well - Ben and Peter meet in Power and Responsibility (across all 4 titles), then Peter is in ASM and SSM while Ben gets adjectiveless and Web for 4 months. They then get back together for a few issues across the 4 titles, then ASM 400 (May's death, a truly pantheon Spider-man story), Aftershocks, and the Mark of Kaine. The Trial of Peter Parker is a very, very mixed bag, but it closes off a bunch of storylines (the trial, Kaine's identity) which is why I didn't just stop at the Mark of Kaine.

[IamnotJudasTraveller]

I like PAD's Spider-Man work, especially the early stuff, but that series always read like he was phoning it in. Considering he never had warm words for the Clone Saga I wonder if editorial even thought before choosing him.

PAD was clearly onboard with the Clone Conspiracy version of Ben - someone who's damaged and on the fringe, since all his interviews went on about how he's nearly deranged and just doesn't know what he wants to be.

But then Marvel got cold feet over the backlash to the new costume (I quite liked it mouth aside) and probably to how they were just saying Ben is like Deadpool-lite now or something, and immediately brought the hoodie back and PAD began to swerve his plans pretty early on. So we got saddled with a run torn between PAD doing what he wanted to do, writing someone who's conceptions of right and wrong went absolutely skew, and what the readerbase for the character wanted, a hero. That always tends to please neither side.

I still think the run has some nice moments in the bulk of it, but that the beginning and end are terrible.

MAYBE if they brought back Ben all of a sudden without the years of teases during BND/Slott this whole "now he's nuts" approach might have worked, but they kept hinting at him for so long that it was enough for even newcomers to get acquainted and be weirded out how the man Peter literally decided to call brother is now potentially putting OG Kaine to shame.

What would you say is best Ben run or arcs.

The issue with Ben runs is that he's got all of two runs so far so to speak - his return in the 90s as Scarlet followed by his replacement gig (the storyarcs are just all nonstop connected one to another, so even that manages to feel like a single run), then the post-Clone Conspiracy stuff. It's basically all he has to go off in the 616 since he was barely acknowledged after his death until the BND run.

I think the first part of the Clone Saga (maybe up through the Mark of Kaine or the Trial of Peter Parker? Probably not the Trial . . .) holds up pretty well - Ben and Peter meet in Power and Responsibility (across all 4 titles), then Peter is in ASM and SSM while Ben gets adjectiveless and Web for 4 months. They then get back together for a few issues across the 4 titles, then ASM 400 (May's death, a truly pantheon Spider-man story), Aftershocks, and the Mark of Kaine. The Trial of Peter Parker is a very, very mixed bag, but it closes off a bunch of storylines (the trial, Kaine's identity) which is why I didn't just stop at the Mark of Kaine.

Yeah, I'd second these. The start of the Clone Saga is pretty good, it's a shame that marketing drew it out so badly that it hurt everything in the process.

I guess I'd also reccommend Spider-Man/X-Men #3 (2008) from Gage, it's a well contained enough one-off that was his first story ever since the end of Clone Saga.

[Spiderfan001]

The Lost Years and Redemption minis are probably the easiest Ben stories to get into and also quite good. The beginning of the Ben Reilly era (the contents of the first BR omnibus, more or less) is also quite good - you just have to accept that Ben is Spider-man and kind of roll with it.

I think the first part of the Clone Saga (maybe up through the Mark of Kaine or the Trial of Peter Parker? Probably not the Trial . . .) holds up pretty well - Ben and Peter meet in Power and Responsibility (across all 4 titles), then Peter is in ASM and SSM while Ben gets adjectiveless and Web for 4 months. They then get back together for a few issues across the 4 titles, then ASM 400 (May's death, a truly pantheon Spider-man story), Aftershocks, and the Mark of Kaine. The Trial of Peter Parker is a very, very mixed bag, but it closes off a bunch of storylines (the trial, Kaine's identity) which is why I didn't just stop at the Mark of Kaine.

Thanks a lot.
And that's my plan for the part where he's Spider-man.Nothing I can do about it, just gonna role with him being Spider-man.

[Spiderfan001]

The issue with Ben runs is that he's got all of two runs so far so to speak - his return in the 90s as Scarlet followed by his replacement gig (the storyarcs are just all nonstop connected one to another, so even that manages to feel like a single run), then the post-Clone Conspiracy stuff. It's basically all he has to go off in the 616 since he was barely acknowledged after his death until the BND run.


Yeah, I'd second these. The start of the Clone Saga is pretty good, it's a shame that marketing drew it out so badly that it hurt everything in the process.

I guess I'd also reccommend Spider-Man/X-Men #3 (2008) from Gage, it's a well contained enough one-off that was his first story ever since the end of Clone Saga.

Thanks.I wish they didn't extend it.If they didn't how would it play out, would we still get the reveal that Ben is the real peter and how long would that last?

I read that issue with X-men.It was cool to see him resisting Sinister using his deaths.

[Webhead]

What would you say is best Ben run or arcs.If I'm gonna go into beyond I should read some Ben stuff.

And does anyone have warm feelings about Clone saga.The clone bros(specifically Kaine) got better after that IIRC.

Those recommendations you got are pretty good. I also like the early Sensational issues even if they're pretty corny. Jurgens sets up the character well.

I still think the run has some nice moments in the bulk of it, but that the beginning and end are terrible.

Yeah the last issues and the ending are really bad.

[Johnatellodi]

The Lost Years is a really cool book. Confused the hell out of me as a kid who bought comics sporadically and never followed a book issue to issue. Those reflective red covers are so nostalgic now.

[HypnoHustler]

PAD was clearly onboard with the Clone Conspiracy version of Ben - someone who's damaged and on the fringe, since all his interviews went on about how he's nearly deranged and just doesn't know what he wants to be.

But then Marvel got cold feet over the backlash to the new costume (I quite liked it mouth aside) and probably to how they were just saying Ben is like Deadpool-lite now or something, and immediately brought the hoodie back and PAD began to swerve his plans pretty early on. So we got saddled with a run torn between PAD doing what he wanted to do, writing someone who's conceptions of right and wrong went absolutely skew, and what the readerbase for the character wanted, a hero. That always tends to please neither side.

I still think the run has some nice moments in the bulk of it, but that the beginning and end are terrible.

I concur. The first five issues are a mess (although there’s some decent Bagley art). Without a doubt the best issue was #7, when he confronted Death to save Kaine. The following issue with the editorial laziness about Ben’s hair also really bothered me at the time. But overall I liked the Slingers arc. Then I liked the Mysterio/Sauron/Damnation tie-in stuff less, but still readable. At the time I tricked myself into thinking it was better than it was, because it was PAD and Ben and Kaine, but the truth is these issues were average at best. The art was also very inconsistent around this time, and Ben's supporting cast (Diva, the bodyguard, Aunt June, dying kid) was absolutely charmless and one dimensional. The only one with any depth was Kaine’s veteran center girlfriend. People sometimes criticize Ben’s 1990s supporting cast, but 25 years later fans still hope to see Jessica and the ‘Daily Grind’ cast again. People also had warm feelings about Kaine’s supporting cast from Yost’s SS series, especially Hummingbird. I’ve never heard a single person say a good thing about the supporting players from the PAD series. Anyway back to the stories… then issues 24-25 happened, and those two are some of the worst comics I’ve ever read from PAD. Hell, worst comics I’ve read period. Not only was it totally out of character compared to everything PAD had seemingly built Ben towards, but it just read like it had been put together slapdash at the last moment. There was nothing organic about it. And the art was horrid as well. Spidergeddon is written as if those two issues never happened and I like to believe they didn’t either.

I guess I'd also reccommend Spider-Man/X-Men #3 (2008) from Gage, it's a well contained enough one-off that was his first story ever since the end of Clone Saga.

I love that Spider-Man/X-Men issue. I was so relieved Gage treated him seriously and not like a joke at the time.

I also thought that ‘Who was Ben Reilly?’ arc from the BND days was decent. The flashback scenes with him taking on Raptor and Kaine were pretty spot on for Ben’s characterization. Nothing special, but worth reading for Ben fans. It was great to see Kaine back after all those years.

Speaking of which, I sometimes have a “be careful what you wish for” feeling when it comes to Ben’s return. Yost’s Scarlet Spider series was one of the best Marvel series of the early 2010s (overall.. even if the last few issues were a bit weak and rushed I recall). Kaine could easily have carried on the mantle of Scarlet Spider and Ben’s legacy might’ve been stronger in death than this convoluted resurrection he’s gone through. And now there’s not much space for Kaine, as Ben’s return has kinda crowded him out and made hime redundant. So I have very mixed feelings on Ben being brought back, even though it had been something I had hoped for for years.

[HypnoHustler]

What would you say is best Ben run or arcs.If I'm gonna go into beyond I should read some Ben stuff.

'Spider-Man: Lost Years' miniseries
'Spider-Man: Redemption' miniseries
Sensational Spider-Man run (both Jurgens and Dezago/Wieringo's issues are the highlight of the Spider-Ben era for me... enough has been said about Jurgens' great run, but #8 by Dezago and Ringo with Ben taking on the Looter is one of the funniest comics not starring Deadpool)
'Revelations' arc, 'Web of Carnage' arc, 'Blood Brothers' arc are all great from that era as well.
ASM #400, 'Spider-Man: The Final Adventure' miniseries, 'Web of Death' arc are more Peter-centric than Ben-centric, but are from the Clone Saga era and are all worth reading as well.