Duke Thomas: We are Robin, The Signal, Final Knight Appreciation 2021

[skyvolt2000]

With Duke it looks like they tried different directions, but none was received with lots of enthusiasm. So what would you suggest for him?

1. Pick a creator and direction and do not change from it.

That means no situations like we saw the New 52 Static or Firestorm or Coates Black Panther- where editors overstepped their boundaries or you had creative teams NOT interested or someone does not care for the lead and does everything to alienate fans while pandering to everyone who is NOT a fan of the lead.

If you are hired to do a Duke Thomas book-you do a DUKE THOMAS book not a stealth Huntress or whoever book.

2. Do NOT worry about shelf space-it's a BAT book-it is assured shelf space in stores and that includes TRADES. So access is NOT an issue for ANY Batman character.

3. Have a goal of at LEAST 3 (preferred 5) trades. So we are talking 20-30 solo issues or combination of minis under that one writer. I ma looking at the Boom and Valiant Comics formats.

They do less is better than overflooding.

4. Pay attention to what else is being done with Duke beyond comics. We saw him or his face on Titans and if we go down the toy isle we see now 1 but 3 (so far) Duke action figures. 2 targeting kids ages 3-8. Find a way to take advantage of that.

See if Duke's powers can be used in something educational (yes DC does make that stuff for little kids) and toss out a kid friendly book. See if you can add him to DC's kid early reader line as well.

5. Pitch a Duke OGN-that market is STARVED for black male lead books.

6. Sniff around more for Duke Thomas interest. One of the ways Ms Marvel took off was certain groups took interest in her like Girl Scouts (at least here in my city). And that turned into a huge event at a comic book store. The same happened with Carol at another one. Have your creative team do some zoom or comic events.

7. While Scott McDaniel trashed Static in New 52 with Harvey Richards-he did make trailers for upcoming issues for youtube. Find someone that can do that for Duke.

8. See what promo stuff can be made. In promo I do not mean just for his books. I mean in general. Once again what are his powers and can they be used for educational purposes. We in the schools get promotional stuff from DC and others.

9. Be willing to PITCH.... do not be scared to pitch Duke taking on Big Bads of DC. Do not be scared to pitch team ups. DO not be scared to NOT use the DC library. One of the things Eve Ewing did on Ironheart was to link her to Midnight Fire of New Warriors fame. Go get a unused Superman villain. Go get one of Tim's old friends from his solo run.
What would a fight between Duke and Dr. Light look like?
Static's foes from New 52 are out there-get them. Since Static is no longer in DC.

10. Do NOT listen to the toxic echo chamber of Twitter nor those who have issue with black folks doing ANYTHING. Nothing you can tell them is going to change their mind that Duke is threat to whatever White character they like.
The goal is to get books on the shelf.

[Aahz]

Tales from the Dark Multiverse and Future State were great looks for Duke, and Secret Files was a good outing too, and they each seem to maintain a consistent throughline in terms of characterization for the most part.

Alternate Future versions of characters imo don't do much for the present day version of the character.
Secret Files was kind of the prologue to a story we have no idea if and when it will be continued, and I guess me and most other people that are not hardcore Duke Thomas fans, will have forgotten about that by the time it does.

[lemonpeace]

Alternate Future versions of characters imo don't do much for the present day version of the character.
Secret Files was kind of the prologue to a story we have no idea if and when it will be continued, and I guess me and most other people that are not hardcore Duke Thomas fans, will have forgotten about that by the time it does.

I mean they were great looks for his stock generally. it's always good to have stories that you can point to and say "here is a good story starring this character" regardless of continuity; Duke doesn't have a ton of those. the name of the game is EXPOSURE. people have been softening up to and appreciating Duke more now than say 2016 because they've been more exposed and aware of him. was that not the point in sticking him on the periphery of Batman stories for so long? are you telling me Tales and Future State have less value to his character than his cameo appearance in Batman #273 or whatever just because that fictional story is "canon" and those aren't? respectfully, I don't buy that.

what I know is, when his story in Future State dropped it was the most excitement I'd seen for Duke in a while, definitely the most i had seen people outside of his core niche fandom asking about him in a while, and definitely a more enthusiastic reception than his entire time on Hill's Outsiders. i mean, there is a reason that version of Duke is coming back and is on the cover of Urban Legends. in addition to that, I honestly don't think we'd have gotten Secret Files if Tales from the Dark Multiverse (and The Quiet Ones in-part) didn't happen, but I can't say I have proof so let's not get bogged down into that. my point being, sure you can have your opinion but it's objectively false to say elseworld or future stories don't have an affect on current day characters when we're quite literally getting more Duke content because it's a follow up to a future storyline. it's not the first time something like that has happened in comics, it won't be the last in happens in comics, it's not an anomaly.

look at the state of continuity and all the headache everyone makes about it. if out-of-continuity stories is what strengthens Duke's standing then so be it tbh. I can't say I'm a fan of a character and that I'm rooting for them, then turn around a dismiss or disqualify actively beneficial things for his for something that arbitrary. in less than a year we've seen Duke get more consistent and significant appearances (that generally have been well-received) than he's had in a while, let's not pretend that's not significant to his character's growth.

[Lal]

1. Pick a creator and direction and do not change from it.

That means no situations like we saw the New 52 Static or Firestorm or Coates Black Panther- where editors overstepped their boundaries or you had creative teams NOT interested or someone does not care for the lead and does everything to alienate fans while pandering to everyone who is NOT a fan of the lead.

If you are hired to do a Duke Thomas book-you do a DUKE THOMAS book not a stealth Huntress or whoever book.

2. Do NOT worry about shelf space-it's a BAT book-it is assured shelf space in stores and that includes TRADES. So access is NOT an issue for ANY Batman character.

3. Have a goal of at LEAST 3 (preferred 5) trades. So we are talking 20-30 solo issues or combination of minis under that one writer. I ma looking at the Boom and Valiant Comics formats.

They do less is better than overflooding.

4. Pay attention to what else is being done with Duke beyond comics. We saw him or his face on Titans and if we go down the toy isle we see now 1 but 3 (so far) Duke action figures. 2 targeting kids ages 3-8. Find a way to take advantage of that.

See if Duke's powers can be used in something educational (yes DC does make that stuff for little kids) and toss out a kid friendly book. See if you can add him to DC's kid early reader line as well.

5. Pitch a Duke OGN-that market is STARVED for black male lead books.

6. Sniff around more for Duke Thomas interest. One of the ways Ms Marvel took off was certain groups took interest in her like Girl Scouts (at least here in my city). And that turned into a huge event at a comic book store. The same happened with Carol at another one. Have your creative team do some zoom or comic events.

7. While Scott McDaniel trashed Static in New 52 with Harvey Richards-he did make trailers for upcoming issues for youtube. Find someone that can do that for Duke.

8. See what promo stuff can be made. In promo I do not mean just for his books. I mean in general. Once again what are his powers and can they be used for educational purposes. We in the schools get promotional stuff from DC and others.

9. Be willing to PITCH.... do not be scared to pitch Duke taking on Big Bads of DC. Do not be scared to pitch team ups. DO not be scared to NOT use the DC library. One of the things Eve Ewing did on Ironheart was to link her to Midnight Fire of New Warriors fame. Go get a unused Superman villain. Go get one of Tim's old friends from his solo run.
What would a fight between Duke and Dr. Light look like?
Static's foes from New 52 are out there-get them. Since Static is no longer in DC.

10. Do NOT listen to the toxic echo chamber of Twitter nor those who have issue with black folks doing ANYTHING. Nothing you can tell them is going to change their mind that Duke is threat to whatever White character they like.
The goal is to get books on the shelf.

While I really like part of your idea, I think it's a bit naive to ignore the current status of Duke, and that includes sales.
Whether we like it or not, DC published books to create new franchises and to stay profitable, so we need to stay realistic. DC won't publish 30 solo issues of Duke, unless they are 100% convinced that enough people want to read him.
Add to that that there's almost always a decline in readers as the series progresses, and an ongoing is not a realistic possibility.
DC research the market using one-shots and minis, so we could hope for a mini (or maxi, if someone really believes in Duke) - but that's also a good starting point.

As for whether sales are guaranteed... Well, Duke is a bat character, so that gives him a chance, but being a bat-character doesn't guarantee anything. Batman vs Ra's was canceled, same as Batman & the Outsiders. Right now Aquaman only gets minis, and the entire Green arrow family is scattered across bat-books and doesn't have a single book.

As for team-ups - well, it's unlikely he'll be called to join the JL, and he's already part of the outsiders. He could possibly join the teen titans, but I'm not sure that's much better.

I think the OGN is a really good idea. Something self-contained that people can read separately from the mainline and generate general interest in Duke.

You also raise an interesting point regarding black male leads in comics - is that a known problem?
As far I see, Static totally crushed in July, even when you take into account the regular decline between 1 and 2 issues. Icon & Rocket also don't seem to be doing so well.
We need to see how Jace's book would be received, but it seems that Robin and Wonder Girl are doing more than okay, and they are both POC (I'm not sure if Dick also counts).

[Aahz]

As for whether sales are guaranteed... Well, Duke is a bat character, so that gives him a chance, but being a bat-character doesn't guarantee anything.

There are actually a lot of cases were being a Batcharacter wasn't to keep sales up: Batwing, Azrael, Talon, Batwoman, Birds of Prey ... and even Catwoman, Batgirl, Red Hood and Nightwing had occasionally pretty low sales.

Beeing a Batcaracter helps, but it doesn't mean automatic success.

[Perfidiously]

Looks like Duke will be in the new webtoon, Batman: Wayne Family Adventures.

https://www.cbr.com/dc-webtoon-batma...ly-adventures/

[lemonpeace]

Looks like Duke's going to appear is in the Batfamily Webtoon

[Berry]

This is maybe a dumb question but I seem to remember an interview with Scott Snyder about how Duke was originally intended to be a robin but I have no idea where the interview is, does anyone know? I seem to recall it was on a podcast or something.

It is possible this interview doesn't exist and I'm just misremebering but it's really been bugging me.

[Frontier]

Duke is pretty cute and happy-go-lucky in the webtoon.

This is maybe a dumb question but I seem to remember an interview with Scott Snyder about how Duke was originally intended to be a robin but I have no idea where the interview is, does anyone know? I seem to recall it was on a podcast or something.

It is possible this interview doesn't exist and I'm just misremebering but it's really been bugging me.

I think Duke is effectively the Robin of Snyder's run because he was uncomfortable writing Damian at the time.

[Berry]

Duke is pretty cute and happy-go-lucky in the webtoon.

I think Duke is effectively the Robin of Snyder's run because he was uncomfortable writing Damian at the time.

Yeah, I'm just curious if Snyder ever actually said he was intended to a robin or if this current path was intended? I swear I recall an interview talking about it and I thought it was kinda fascinating at the time (and it vaguely went into editorial politics which I'm a sucker for) but I might be misremembering bad.

[Rac7d*]

Yeah, I'm just curious if Snyder ever actually said he was intended to a robin or if this current path was intended? I swear I recall an interview talking about it and I thought it was kinda fascinating at the time (and it vaguely went into editorial politics which I'm a sucker for) but I might be misremembering bad.

wasnt he suppose to be lark

[Lal]

Yeah, I'm just curious if Snyder ever actually said he was intended to a robin or if this current path was intended? I swear I recall an interview talking about it and I thought it was kinda fascinating at the time (and it vaguely went into editorial politics which I'm a sucker for) but I might be misremembering bad.

Someone asked him on Twitter, you can read the thread - https://twitter.com/Ssnyder1835/stat...Pb2Qf2Jhg&s=19

Apparently he wanted to make Harper Robin, and then when it was clear Damian would be back decided to give her and Duke their own mantle.

[lemonpeace]

Yeah, I'm just curious if Snyder ever actually said he was intended to a robin or if this current path was intended? I swear I recall an interview talking about it and I thought it was kinda fascinating at the time (and it vaguely went into editorial politics which I'm a sucker for) but I might be misremembering bad.

from what I remember of that Snyder interview he either implied or outside said that when he first brought in Duke he was supposed to become the next Robin because Damian was dead. At the time Snyder wasn't the chosen one yet and editorial put him in a position where he had to change plans because Damian came back to life super duper early in Duke's development. so Snyder pivoted toward making him his own hero. it seems like the sunlight motif was something that came about pretty early in the pivot but (and this part is my speculation) I don't think Snyder quite figured out what he wanted to do with Duke as a solo hero until he started developing Dark Nights Metal and the Dark Matter line (which itself ended up having to be tweaked and changed until it was The New Age of Heroes); which is why Duke's story was tied to the Immortal Men (which was Tynion's book initially).

wasnt he suppose to be lark

kinda? Lark appears to be one of the names Snyder toyed with (he had Duke appear as Lark in a hallucination Bruce was having) but they likely abandoned it because it was a bird name and they wanted Duke to definitively not be a Robin-type character.

on a similar note (and there is no confirmation that i can find so take with a grain of salt) one of my Tumblr mutuals works at a bookstore/comic shop and they said they managed to get a private convo with Snyder once. apparently he told them that another name they considered for Duke was Outsider or Outrider but they felt it probably wouldn't be a good look for them if the black character in the Batfamily was the one called the "outsider".

[lemonpeace]

[lemonpeace]