Duke Thomas: We are Robin, The Signal, Final Knight Appreciation 2021

[lemonpeace]

Yeah. Narratively, Dre functioned as Duke's foil and rival. The two helped push one another to be better individuals and vigilantes. When all is said and done by the run's end, they were close.

Indeed, alongside Duke himself, Dre is probably the most serious, dedicated and vigilant about being a vigilante superhero. In fact, and discounting the logistics of Dre not existing as a character and concept prior to We Are Robin, Dre's the type of adolescent teenager/young adult who's path would have led him into becoming a vigilante superhero regardless of if the opportunities that We Are Robin afforded him would have presented itself to him. Some of Dre's known current-day passions include a love for mixed martial arts, showing his dedication to bodily discipline, and true crime novels, showing his keen interest in criminal justice. Like Duke himself, Dre was practical made to be an active vigilante.

Were all right in the world, The Signal would be in the midst of his own on-going series and be more properly integrated into the Batverse and DC at large, and Dre would be an active vigilante, even if he would be taking care of his own piece of Gotham unsung and sans little spotlight on his contributions (outside of The Signal's ongoing, which would treat him with the respect and diligence he's earned in We Are Robin, of course).

And considering that Dax and Dre started off with their strong rapport, I like the idea of Dax coming into his own as Dre's "man in the chair".

Exactly, I feel Dre was a well-utilized "Lancer" to Duke's archetypal "Leader", and we saw Dre get geared up by Dre and strike out when We are Robin broke up in the series; he definitely was just as destined for the hero life as Duke. It's shame we're less likely to see Dre and Dax than Riko and Izzy (largely due to DC favoring tired tropes like love triangles) because I feel they have a lot of potential in their own right away from Duke and Batman, possibly into the wider hero society. In a perfect world, I think a good pivot would've been if we had Gnomon try recruiting Riko and Dre, maybe even have Gnomon's motivations and intentions make moral sense, and present the chance for complex character development from all parties. I mean, how cool would it be to see Gnomon nurturing Riko & Dre into full on pro-level heroes/anti-heroes similar to what Bruce did for Duke. I think all the Robin gang have potential and it would definitely strengthen Duke's cast and character mythology for DC to lean into that. it would further ingrain We are Robin (and the elements of it that made it compelling) into Duke's character as the Signal, which at this phase lacks the same depth. hell, my headcanon is eventually one Duke reaches his Future State revolutionary stage, they reform their gang under his banner; like a nod to the Immortal Men, changing the world with his own pseudo "House".

would, could ,should, allat, I'm just happy we see something for Duke. with Robin King Tony Patrick proved to me that not only does he follow what Duke's developments are but that he also knows how to build on things. So i'm very excited to see how he builds on his Batman & the Signal but also the roll Duke's just had (Tales from the Dark Multiverse, Robin King, & Future State). I reeeeeeally hope he moves Duke toward his Future State incarnation with some Gnomon developments on top of that, that would be perfect for me. can't wait for July!

[J. D. Guy]

Exactly, I feel Dre was a well-utilized "Lancer" to Duke's archetypal "Leader", and we saw Dre get geared up by Dre and strike out when We are Robin broke up in the series; he definitely was just as destined for the hero life as Duke. It's shame we're less likely to see Dre and Dax than Riko and Izzy (largely due to DC favoring tired tropes like love triangles) because I feel they have a lot of potential in their own right away from Duke and Batman, possibly into the wider hero society. In a perfect world, I think a good pivot would've been if we had Gnomon try recruiting Riko and Dre, maybe even have Gnomon's motivations and intentions make moral sense, and present the chance for complex character development from all parties. I mean, how cool would it be to see Gnomon nurturing Riko & Dre into full on pro-level heroes/anti-heroes similar to what Bruce did for Duke. I think all the Robin gang have potential and it would definitely strengthen Duke's cast and character mythology for DC to lean into that. it would further ingrain We are Robin (and the elements of it that made it compelling) into Duke's character as the Signal, which at this phase lacks the same depth. hell, my headcanon is eventually one Duke reaches his Future State revolutionary stage, they reform their gang under his banner; like a nod to the Immortal Men, changing the world with his own pseudo "House".

would, could ,should, allat, I'm just happy we see something for Duke. with Robin King Tony Patrick proved to me that not only does he follow what Duke's developments are but that he also knows how to build on things. So i'm very excited to see how he builds on his Batman & the Signal but also the roll Duke's just had (Tales from the Dark Multiverse, Robin King, & Future State). I reeeeeeally hope he moves Duke toward his Future State incarnation with some Gnomon developments on top of that, that would be perfect for me. can't wait for July!

I noticed that, too. Honestly, it was just an inkling back then, but I did get the feeling that the biggest reason that Riko and Izzy were in Batman and The Signal while Dre and Dax were not was because it was easier to justify (to whomever) the inclusion of two female characters in Duke's sphere than two male ones. And i recognize that space constraints are a valid reasoning, but I do feel that Dax and especially Dre could have had room made for them, by shifting the onus of the scenes between Duke and Riko and Izzy into something more inclusive for all 5 of Duke's We Are Robin crew.

It's a little sad, since that can imply that "love triangle potential" is the bigger reason some might see for keeping Riko and Izzy around and not anything else about their character or their potential for being vigilantes and/or being a part of a vigilante's support network. It also means that Duke has a limited scope when it comes to his relationships with other male character, specifically males who aren't meant to directly have or implicitly possess some form of seniority over him. Not having Dax and, again especially, Dre in Duke's life means that Duke has no real male peers who are as such practically as is theoretically. This, to me at least, gets to be kind of frustrating. He can have female peers in his sphere, particularly when it's time to imply romance stuff, but any male "peers" have to be unambiguous villains or folks who have some kind of real or implied seniority over Duke.

(Is it just me, or has anyone else ever noticed that you can't seem to have works with male leads — outside of certain kinds of Shonen Anime and Manga — who have male peers with the same level(s) of "lead energy/potential", such that it was a "twist of fate" that they're the leads and the not the male peer(s)? But you can pour in the female harem characters all you want, just so long as they're not males who would be seen as the male lead's peer?)

Anyway, that would have been cool to have Gnomon take in Dre (along with Riko). It would have made for some genuinely interesting dynamics to see them pursue and obtain superhero tutelage under Gnomon, while also helping to add nuance to all parties involved, Gnomon included.

[lemonpeace]

We got two Duke cameos and a name drop this week. it's nice to see DC keeping him somewhat visible in between storylines.

I was surprised they actually followed through and had Duke show up in Future State: Gotham but it remains to be seen if they're gonna do anything with him beyond having him in the background while the others talk to do stuff; or worse, have him and the others there just so they can show how formidable Jason is by defeating them. I'm REEAALLLYY hoping if we see some action from Duke he gets to use his sword and his meta powers at least.

Over in Urban Legends he got name dropped in the Outsiders story. it looks like Duke is still working with Black Lightning and Katana as part of the Outsiders and they have a story coming this fall featuring a new team with them three, metamorpho, and a fifth mystery member. i think Brandon Thomas intends to bridge the Outsiders story now with where they are in Future State. fingers crossed for some shonen protagonist goodness for Duke in the contemporary timeline. also in Urban Legends we got a sweet little cameo of Duke having a self-care day with Cassandra Cain and Stephanie Brown in the Lady Shiva story.

[J. D. Guy]

We got two Duke cameos and a name drop this week. it's nice to see DC keeping him somewhat visible in between storylines.

I was surprised they actually followed through and had Duke show up in Future State: Gotham but it remains to be seen if they're gonna do anything with him beyond having him in the background while the others talk to do stuff; or worse, have him and the others there just so they can show how formidable Jason is by defeating them. I'm REEAALLLYY hoping if we see some action from Duke he gets to use his sword and his meta powers at least.

Over in Urban Legends he got name dropped in the Outsiders story. it looks like Duke is still working with Black Lightning and Katana as part of the Outsiders and they have a story coming this fall featuring a new team with them three, metamorpho, and a fifth mystery member. i think Brandon Thomas intends to bridge the Outsiders story now with where they are in Future State. fingers crossed for some shonen protagonist goodness for Duke in the contemporary timeline. also in Urban Legends we got a sweet little cameo of Duke having a self-care day with Cassandra Cain and Stephanie Brown in the Lady Shiva story.

Those are pleasant surprises, yes! I do like that at least someone is letting Duke keep his ties to the out-of-Gotham world and show him still hanging with Black Lightning and Katana. (I'd like to see them interacting with each other more from someone other than Hill, who won't make the mistake of treating The Signal as a rookie kid not worth giving the time of day to, but instead will at least have the courtesy to have mutual interaction scenes or show the others taking directions from Duke on occasion.)

The self-care day sounds nice! Guys should be shown doing that more often. (And should be given the social and cultural space in real life to do likewise, beyond getting a haircut.)

[Korath]

Really happy to have seen so much Duke this week, I wasn't expecting it ! And glad that he'll be back on Outsiders. I'd love for a new solo mini, but alas...

[lemonpeace]

Those are pleasant surprises, yes! I do like that at least someone is letting Duke keep his ties to the out-of-Gotham world and show him still hanging with Black Lightning and Katana. (I'd like to see them interacting with each other more from someone other than Hill, who won't make the mistake of treating The Signal as a rookie kid not worth giving the time of day to, but instead will at least have the courtesy to have mutual interaction scenes or show the others taking directions from Duke on occasion.)

The self-care day sounds nice! Guys should be shown doing that more often. (And should be given the social and cultural space in real life to do likewise, beyond getting a haircut.)

it was more like a team bonding type of self-care, they went mini golfing. though, I would've loved if they had like a spa day or just a general grooming day (get hands and feet done, skin care, hair re-twisted or cut, etc.).

Really happy to have seen so much Duke this week, I wasn't expecting it ! And glad that he'll be back on Outsiders. I'd love for a new solo mini, but alas...

I think him not having a full on solo mini just yet may he a blessing in disguise. While Hill may have fumbled the ball, I still think Duke on Outsiders is a uniquely perfect opportunity to develop Signal as an identity independent of Batman. Outsiders positions the writer to better normalizing seeing Duke existingn in and in proximity to the wider landscape of the DC universe, as oppose to a Signal focused mini that would most likely be set in Gotham and by extension back in Batman's shadow. As much as I would love a substantial Duke focused solo limited series or mini, I'm not sweating getting him on teams if he is still getting developed (which is looking to be the case with Thomas' Outsiders).

admittedly a lot of my anxiety about Duke being trapped/sucked into Batman's orbit would be alleviated if DC just redesigned his suit ngl.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

Guys he started out as a Batman supporting character. So I just expected him to stay one for the foreseeable future. Best to stop worrying about it.

[lemonpeace]

Guys he started out as a Batman supporting character. So I just expected him to stay one for the foreseeable future. Best to stop worrying about it.

thats not how his creator looks at it. according to Snyder Batman is supposed to be getting in on the ground floor of the next generation of hero, that's the role they play to each other. his character was (supposedly) designed to be about progression, Duke was meant to be his own hero, not a just Batman's errand boy, token sidekick, or representative wallpaper. there is a difference between being a supporting character and being a character in another character's shadow; Batman was a supporting character in Duke's solo mini, wasn't in his shadow tho. by that logic, characters like Hawkman, Katana, and Vixen's presence in the DC landscape should be relegated to back-ups and secondary roles in the books of their origin.

The Batfamily have long since stopped simply being "Batman support characters" and are effectively an ensemble meant to tell their own individual stories as well as being featured characters in Batman stories. so I gotta call cap that we shouldn't be concerned if the character isn't being used to their full potential. especially when the entire premise of the character in question (according to their creator) is to be their own entity. just like Nightwing was allowed to do, or Red Hood, or Robin, or Tim Drake, or Oracle, or Cass as Batgirl and so on.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

thats not how his creator looks at it. according to Snyder Batman is supposed to be getting in on the ground floor of the next generation of hero, that's the role they play to each other. his character was (supposedly) designed to be about progression, Duke was meant to be his own hero, not a just Batman's errand boy, token sidekick, or representative wallpaper. there is a difference between being a supporting character and being a character in another character's shadow; Batman was a supporting character in Duke's solo mini, wasn't in his shadow tho. by that logic, characters like Hawkman, Katana, and Vixen's presence in the DC landscape should be relegated to back-ups and secondary roles in the books of their origin.

The Batfamily have long since stopped simply being "Batman support characters" and are effectively an ensemble meant to tell their own individual stories as well as being featured characters in Batman stories. so I gotta call cap that we shouldn't be concerned if the character isn't being used to their full potential. especially when the entire premise of the character in question (according to their creator) is to be their own entity. just like Nightwing was allowed to do, or Red Hood, or Robin, or Tim Drake, or Oracle, or Cass as Batgirl and so on.

I respect Snyder's intention, I just don't think he pulled it off well or it was a realistic ambition. To me if Snyder wanted to really make Duke his own IP, he should've scrapped the Gotham/Bat-family connection and just went all in on Duke's story. I don't believe Duke is ever gonna leave the Belfry longterm. DC is gonna keep him in the batfamily and right now, he just comes across another Robin/Nightwing.

Sure he has potential to be more than just another Batfamily member, i'm just skeptical off it ever happening.

[Askia]

I respect Snyder's intention, I just don't think he pulled it off well or it was a realistic ambition. To me if Snyder wanted to really make Duke his own IP, he should've scrapped the Gotham/Bat-family connection and just went all in on Duke's story. I don't believe Duke is ever gonna leave the Belfry longterm. DC is gonna keep him in the batfamily and right now, he just comes across another Robin/Nightwing.

Sure he has potential to be more than just another Batfamily member, i'm just skeptical off it ever happening.

I see your point. In my opinion, I think the whole theme of being the hero of Gotham during the day already separated him from the entire bat family. I think the concept is dope. He just needed a big push by DC to give him time to shine in a solo book with a talented artistic team behind him. Instead they dipped their toe in the water with a mini-series, then put him in a C team and attached it to Batman hoping the name would carry sales.

[J. D. Guy]

I see your point. In my opinion, I think the whole theme of being the hero of Gotham during the day already separated him from the entire bat family. I think the concept is dope. He just needed a big push by DC to give him time to shine in a solo book with a talented artistic team behind him. Instead they dipped their toe in the water with a mini-series, then put him in a C team and attached it to Batman hoping the name would carry sales.

In the case of the bolded, it didn't help things one way or the other that because Cully Hamner (as cool of an artist and character designer as he is) couldn't keep a schedule, that this ended up directly causing said mini to drop from 6 issues to only 3 that ended up getting pushed back in release date and then seeing delays on top of that. Not a good way to push a new-ish character with as unique and dope a concept as The Signal's when you can't keep his now-only 3 issue comic exploring him in a solo capacity on a consistent monthly schedule.

And yes, I'm still frustrated about that. :|

[lemonpeace]

Batman: Secret Files: The Signal #1 Preview (Unlettered)
Writer: Tony Patrick
Artist: Christian Duce

After his time as a member of the Outsiders, Duke Thomas, a.k.a. The Signal, returns home to be the daytime guardian of Gotham City. But during his time away everything has changed, including those closest to him. And with a deadly influx of weapons being trafficked into Gotham by the mysterious White Market, The Signal enters a brand-new world of danger in his hometown, one that will push him farther away from everything he knows!

[lemonpeace]

re-posting my thoughts from the preview thread

I'm digging the art style for this. I love seeing Duke sparring with Cass, I always felt she made the most sense to train him considering how similar their powers are and i'm always happy to see Duke being competent in a combat scenario. tho, apparently this image of them sparring has led to a bit of debate on twitter.

I'm also happy to see Izzy is still working with Duke in The Hatch and that they're still together. I especially like this hairstyle far more than the one she had in Batman & The Signal. I hope we'll see some of the We are Robin gang. I'm so hyped for this one-shot.

[J. D. Guy]

Definitely agree with the following: it's nice to see Duke and Cass spar, and see Duke actually hold his own; good to see Izzy, and her new hairstyle is fire; hope to see more of Duke's We Are Robin crew.

It's just good to see Duke back in his own element. It was far too short-lived, but I feel in love with it in those 3 issues, and welcome the homecoming.

By the way, @lemonpeace, what was the Twitter debate?

[lemonpeace]

Definitely agree with the following: it's nice to see Duke and Cass spar, and see Duke actually hold his own; good to Izzy, and her new hairstyle is fire; hope to see more of Duke's We Are Robin.

It's just good to see Duke back in his own element. It was far too short-lived, but I feel in love with it in those 3 issues, and welcome the homecoming.

By the way, @lemonpeace, what was the Twitter debate?

some fans took issue with Duke even remotely keeping up with Cass; even in sparring. apparently (according to the ones I saw) even if she's holding back Duke shouldn't be able to physically keep up with Cass, especially not enough to catch/redirect her kick, so "clearly" DC is nerfing her. there was some push back tho. people pointing out that, in addition to the multiple teachers he's had (including Cass herself), one of the functions of Duke's metahuman power is especially a superior version of what Cass' body read does for her. so in actuality he should be one of the few people in the Batfam able to keep up with her. it's just weird argument to be having since it's obviously a sparring scene and it's not like they haven't trained together before.