Duke Thomas: We are Robin, The Signal, Final Knight Appreciation 2021

[lemonpeace]

I'm not a fan of how WFA has used Duke. He's just the generic new guy and is pretty bland and feels more like a device to showcase the other characters rather than being fleshed out/interesting in his own right.

thats not what that webtoon is for. it's an out of continuity slice of life family webtoon meant to capitalize of webtoons popularity. the fact Duke us there at all is a win, all of the characters are scaled back to fit that mold. sorry to say but it's not exactly made for the type of people that are on these boards kiddo.

[lemonpeace]

BATMAN: URBAN LEGENDS #18
Written by TINI HOWARD, BLAKE HOWARD, BRANDON THOMAS, CHRIS BURNHAM, HENRY BARAJA, and GREG HAHN
Art by ROSI KAMPE, ALBERTO JIMENEZ
ALBURQUERQUE, CHRIS BURNHAM, and SERGIO ACUNA
Cover by LIAM SHARP
Variant covers by DIKE RUAN and GERARDO ZAFFINO
$7.99 US | 64 pages | Prestige
ON SALE 8/9/22
A string of new sagas begins! Tini Howard and Blake Howard pen an epic Batman story! Batman and the Outsiders have to save the Signal from burning out! A new mystery begins, starring Alfred Pennyworth before his passing, from all-star creator Chris Burnham! And in a story from Batman’s past, the Dark Knight must team up with Etrigan the Demon to stop the Reincarnators!

I'm excited that they're letting Brandon Thomas do more with Duke & The Outsiders on Urban Legends. tho, i figured they would've just greenlit him for a limited or seasonal series instead of another stint in Urban Legends. I feel that would've been the smarter play. regardless, I'm glad DC's allowing him to further cement Duke as a staple member of The Outsiders and making that HIS team.

[NOCTPHOENIX]

thats not what that webtoon is for. it's an out of continuity slice of life family webtoon meant to capitalize of webtoons popularity. the fact Duke us there at all is a win, all of the characters are scaled back to fit that mold. sorry to say but it's not exactly made for the type of people that are on these boards kiddo.

WFA has done things that explore various aspects of multiple characters and flesh out their personality/interactions such Steph's issues in her two-parter. It hasn't done anything with Duke besides make him the generic bland new guy who is used to show said aspects of other people. His problems are used to show the personality and responses of others and what they are like.

[J. D. Guy]

Batman: Wayne Family Adventure, is a slice of life Webtoon.

Oh, okay.

I do admit that the "Tumblr Duke", which is more or less a curated version that all Wayne Family Adventures characters come from, can be very limiting. In Duke case, when Tumblr-goers did make mention of him and create stuff with him in it, Duke would often be portrayed as the perpetual "new guy" who "is in awe of and just can't get used to the (Tumblr version) Wayne's wacky shenanigans". Again, Wayne Family Adventures is a curated version of those Tumblr fantakes, so that's how Duke is more or less slotted in.

I can see what lemonpeace is saying though: just gotta remember who the book/webtoon is for, as well as appreciate the fact that Duke isn't forgotten or left behind or passed over in the book. It would have been all too easy for them to do that, leaving an entire demographic unaware of the existence of Duke Thomas/The Signal in any capacity. But they didn't, and AU or not, that is something to be thankful for.

[J. D. Guy]

WFA has done things that explore various aspects of multiple characters and flesh out their personality/interactions such Steph's issues in her two-parter. It hasn't done anything with Duke besides make him the generic bland new guy who is used to show said aspects of other people. His problems are used to show the personality and responses of others and what they are like.

I haven't been following the book too closely, so I do wonder if this is only how Duke is being used/written this far into the series.

If so, hopefully he'll get arcs to himself and that focus on him.

[NOCTPHOENIX]

Oh, okay.

I do admit that the "Tumblr Duke", which is more or less a curated version that all Wayne Family Adventures characters come from, can be very limiting. In Duke case, when Tumblr-goers did make mention of him and create stuff with him in it, Duke would often be portrayed as the perpetual "new guy" who "is in awe of and just can't get used to the (Tumblr version) Wayne's wacky shenanigans". Again, Wayne Family Adventures is a curated version of those Tumblr fantakes, so that's how Duke is more or less slotted in.

I can see what lemonpeace is saying though: just gotta remember who the book/webtoon is for, as well as appreciate the fact that Duke isn't forgotten or left behind or passed over in the book. It would have been all too easy for them to do that, leaving an entire demographic unaware of the existence of Duke Thomas/The Signal in any capacity. But they didn't, and AU or not, that is something to be thankful for.

I haven't been following the book too closely, so I do wonder if this is only how Duke is being used/written this far into the series.

If so, hopefully he'll get arcs to himself and that focus on him.

Here is the thing. Sure they may include him and have him as the de facto "protag" but if he just used to highlight other characters that makes him more of a device rather than a meaningful character. He hasn't even been seen in his full suit yet or showed off his powers or what he can really do if I recall while others have gotten the chance to do so. It really feels like how in those cartoons from the 2000's they had a token black character (the whole black best friend/sidekick trope) but used them more as a device rather than being their own characters or for meaningful development. Duke did get a 3 parter but is a generic romance arc that ended pretty fast and didn't do anything to develop him and again highlighted the others and their traits. You can decide for yourself how it is (there is also something to be said about how his crush is used):

https://www.webtoons.com/en/slice-of...0&episode_no=8

They have a similar problem with Luke Fox as so far he's had one voicless cameo, a single page appearance and he appears in the latest free chapter but he just gives generic bland advice which doesn't tell us anything interesting about him or set him apart and is contrasted with the advice Tim gives that sets him out. Again like Duke he is never fully seen in his suit or what he can really do is shown off:

https://www.webtoons.com/en/slice-of...&episode_no=39

I may be seeing things but so far how WFA uses black characters leaves more to be desired. It feels like they don't really put any creative input or thought into them.

[NOCTPHOENIX]

https://tiptapricot.tumblr.com/post/...bat-fandom/amp

I found a really good post which highlights the problem with Fanon Duke/WFA Duke and how it leans the "black best friend trope" and uses him as a mere token/prop:

[Aahz]

I'm not a fan of how WFA has used Duke. He's just the generic new guy and is pretty bland and feels more like a device to showcase the other characters rather than being fleshed out/interesting in his own right.

Honestly I think that not a big differnce from how he is handled written in the normal comics.

The problem with Duke is that unlike the other characters he doesn't have a very long publication history, the short history he has been pretty inconsistent due to constant changes of writers and direction (and even powers). While most of the others had some kind of defining run, where they had one writer sticking with them for several years, and really fleshing them out.

The longest really Duke centric book we had sofar was imo We Are Robin, and that was pretty different staus quo for him.

The Webtoons seem to mostly show casing traits of the characters, that are already widely accepted in the fandom, and Duke is kind of missing those. They really had to make them up and I'm not sure if they could or should do that since I don't think that the "Batoffice" is really much involved with what the webtoon guys are doing.

[NOCTPHOENIX]

Honestly I think that not a big differnce from how he is handled written in the normal comics.

The problem with Duke is that unlike the other characters he doesn't have a very long publication history, the short history he has been pretty inconsistent due to constant changes of writers and direction (and even powers). While most of the others had some kind of defining run, where they had one writer sticking with them for several years, and really fleshing them out.

The longest really Duke centric book we had sofar was imo We Are Robin, and that was pretty different staus quo for him.

The Webtoons seem to mostly show casing traits of the characters, that are already widely accepted in the fandom, and Duke is kind of missing those. They really had to make them up and I'm not sure if they could or should do that since I don't think that the "Batoffice" is really much involved with what the webtoon guys are doing.

The post I linked above shows this isn't necessarily accurate and how WFA's portrayal and the fanons is problematic:

https://tiptapricot.tumblr.com/post/...bat-fandom/amp

Also if they can make up stuff for Tim and Bernard they can do for Duke. It's just they don't care about him.

[Aahz]

Also if they can make up stuff for Tim and Bernard they can do for Duke.

They are not really making anything up, we see them dating which is what they also do in the comics. And WFA Bernard seems also to have next to no personality...

And like I said I don't thin it is a problem with WFA and fanon, it is a problem with how he has been written/handled in the main continuity.

[NOCTPHOENIX]

They are not really making anything up, we see them dating which is what they also do in the comics. And WFA Bernard seems also to have next to no personality...

And like I said I don't thin it is a problem with WFA and fanon, it is a problem with how he has been written/handled in the main continuity.

WFA came up with a new issue in their relationship and Tim's insecurities.

I think it is a problem with WFA and the fanon. Did you see the link I sent which explains why?

[Aahz]

I think it is a problem with WFA and the fanon. Did you see the link I sent which explains why?

Yeah but I don't really agree with that.

When it come to him being the new Guy, that's how he has been written for the most part since rebirth. In most stories that aren't solo's he written still a hero in training.

When it comes to him being generic, he simply doesn't really have any personality traits that stand out (yeah he is smart, brave ect. but that's something all Batfamily members are), even if we go back to "We are Robin" I would claim that all the other Robins had imo more easily to identify character traits.

They also haven't really done much to establish his relation ship with any other Batfamily members (apart from Cass and Batman), with most of the others had just a few pages of inter action in one story.
And I think even that little bit they did with Cass, is not nearly that established as her relation ships with Steph, Barbara and Tim.

When it comes to his powers, I just think that dc did a pretty bad job establishing them.
- He got them after allready being around for quite some time
- the first longer lasting series where he had them, didn't really gave him much screen time and directly changed the powers
- he has iirc never really used them in any of Batfamily cross overs (which puts them in a similarly wired stop than Jason Todd All Caste powers)

[J. D. Guy]

The Signal's on this variant for September's Batman/Superman: World's Finest #7. Even more surprising, so are all of his We Are Robin crew. Including Troy!

[Restingvoice]

https://tiptapricot.tumblr.com/post/...bat-fandom/amp

I found a really good post which highlights the problem with Fanon Duke/WFA Duke and how it leans the "black best friend trope" and uses him as a mere token/prop:

Yeah but I don't really agree with that.

When it come to him being the new Guy, that's how he has been written for the most part since rebirth. In most stories that aren't solo's he written still a hero in training.

When it comes to him being generic, he simply doesn't really have any personality traits that stand out (yeah he is smart, brave ect. but that's something all Batfamily members are), even if we go back to "We are Robin" I would claim that all the other Robins had imo more easily to identify character traits.

They also haven't really done much to establish his relation ship with any other Batfamily members (apart from Cass and Batman), with most of the others had just a few pages of inter action in one story.
And I think even that little bit they did with Cass, is not nearly that established as her relation ships with Steph, Barbara and Tim.

When it comes to his powers, I just think that dc did a pretty bad job establishing them.
- He got them after allready being around for quite some time
- the first longer lasting series where he had them, didn't really gave him much screen time and directly changed the powers
- he has iirc never really used them in any of Batfamily cross overs (which puts them in a similarly wired stop than Jason Todd All Caste powers)

The link Noct posted was something I read a long time ago, so I don't remember it word for word , but the gist of the message the poster trying to say and why it's racist is because in fandom, Duke's new guy role is used in fan fic as a support for the other, light skin boys. The old favorite. They're the focus, while Duke is the normal guy reacting to them.

Their stories aren't about him, it's about the light boys. The people writing it are not interested in studying him further because he's not their focus, the others are, and so, one or two panel of him by Tom King portraying him as The New Guy is enough information.

So it's not new guy portrayal that's the problem, it's how they use it and who's the focus

That being said, WFA is not like that.

While Duke is the new guy. the point of view character for readers to the Wayne family in the first episode, he also got stories that's about himself. About how he's learning to be a vigilante, him getting a girlfriend, his first time on the Batmobile, and telling his problems to Tim and Luke. Does all of this portray him as The New Guy like in fanon? Yes, but unlike fanon, the story is about him. The story where he's trying to get a girlfriend especially. Everyone else is his supporting cast.

(One episode where Duke fill the fanon role exactly is the one where the Bat kids are all comparing the number of times they died, but that's fine because everyone including him gets their focus episode, so it's just part of the format, and part of his progression in this universe.)

Portrayal of the character can be different depending on what's canon in certain universe. WFA chose to go with the new guy, maybe because that's what the fandom are familiar, maybe because that's what the writer's familiar, but that's just the launching point and his story doesn't just stop at him reacting to support the others.

They continue the story with his own conflict and problem, and since this is its own universe, new guy portrayal is fine as long as he's not used to prop others.

Now whether that helps people knowing Duke's character in the main comic universe, that's a different matter, but since WFA is using familiar fanon characterization for everyone anyway, all of their reputation are potentially fucked ^^

Note that the comment sections are filled with main universe readers and they've made it clear when recommending stories that these are not the portrayal in main canon

[NOCTPHOENIX]

The link Noct posted was something I read a long time ago, so I don't remember it word for word , but the gist of the message the poster trying to say and why it's racist is because in fandom, Duke's new guy role is used in fan fic as a support for the other, light skin boys. The old favorite. They're the focus, while Duke is the normal guy reacting to them.

Their stories aren't about him, it's about the light boys. The people writing it are not interested in studying him further because he's not their focus, the others are, and so, one or two panel of him by Tom King portraying him as The New Guy is enough information.

So it's not new guy portrayal that's the problem, it's how they use it and who's the focus

That being said, WFA is not like that.

While Duke is the new guy. the point of view character for readers to the Wayne family in the first episode, he also got stories that's about himself. About how he's learning to be a vigilante, him getting a girlfriend, his first time on the Batmobile, and telling his problems to Tim and Luke. Does all of this portray him as The New Guy like in fanon? Yes, but unlike fanon, the story is about him. The story where he's trying to get a girlfriend especially. Everyone else is his supporting cast.

(One episode where Duke fill the fanon role exactly is the one where the Bat kids are all comparing the number of times they died, but that's fine because everyone including him gets their focus episode, so it's just part of the format, and part of his progression in this universe.)

Portrayal of the character can be different depending on what's canon in certain universe. WFA chose to go with the new guy, maybe because that's what the fandom are familiar, maybe because that's what the writer's familiar, but that's just the launching point and his story doesn't just stop at him reacting to support the others.

They continue the story with his own conflict and problem, and since this is its own universe, new guy portrayal is fine as long as he's not used to prop others.

Now whether that helps people knowing Duke's character in the main comic universe, that's a different matter, but since WFA is using familiar fanon characterization for everyone anyway, all of their reputation are potentially fucked ^^

Note that the comment sections are filled with main universe readers and they've made it clear when recommending stories that these are not the portrayal in main canon

Nah Duke is EXACTLY like that in WFA. Each "focus" episode of his is the same. Duke is struggling with an issue, someone else comes along and explains how they deal with it which shows them off and their traits and so on. In the process we learn more about the other characters but nothing about Duke. He is just a prop used to show off everyone else.

In the story with Duke and Tim and Luke, we learned about Tim and his quirks/traits were showed off and he is the one that stood out (as usual it is always the other person) but nothing about Duke or his own unique approach to the issue. Luke's advice was bland and generic and again contrasted with Tim to show him off. We only barely learned the slightest thing about Luke.

That three parter with his girlfriend did nothing to tell us about Duke. It was more about the family's reaction to Duke's situation and how they would handle the situation rather than Duke himself and they are the ones who are shown off and made the ones that standout. The resolution didn't even come from Duke or how he would uniquely handle the situation. On the date again they are the highlight and the focus is how Duke is used to show them off as his date asked about them and how it is like being in the family. He still is a blank slate and all his episodes are the same even now. We learned NOTHING about Duke in that three parter and any of his insights were just bland and generic stuff you would find in any medium which does a similar story.

He is a springboard and that's all they use him for. All of his "focus" episodes really are meant to highlight everyone else. WFA has included NOTHING essential about Duke from the comics such as his powers, or even personality.

Like I said it's telling the crew released concept art of Kate but not Duke or even went on social media to talk about Bernard of all people yet nothing about Duke.

Plenty of other black readers have felt the same way and noticed this and some have even stopped reading WFA due to this.