Duke Thomas: We are Robin, The Signal, Final Knight Appreciation 2021

[skyvolt2000]

The the OGNs is the that Beast Boy and Raven are do to the Titans cartoons pretty popular characters to the general audience, I'm not sure if the novels alone can really do much for an mostly unknown character. And doing OGNs with Batgirl, Robin or Nightwing, would be likely way more profitable for DC than doing Signal or Batwing.

New York Time best seller Squirrel Girl say HI.

A character collecting dust and then got a OGN that was a best seller.

The book shelves are filled with unknown characters that find audiences.

As for profitable-if DC was to bother to **********you will make more money with Signal and Batwing because you have a book market that ignores black boys.
And as many writers have told me that is a market ANYONE if they bother to put EFFORT in can control.

Right now Marvel is going after it with Miles.

And the secret to get a profitable book is to use writers that folks KNOW. Not just pander to entitled comic book fans who would love for Duke to not exist.

[thefinalguy]

Is there a reason why Duke and Luke haven't caught on with fans?

Lack of focus within stories and within other media.

Duke needs a moment. Spider-Verse and the Insomniac game were the perfect vehicles to push Miles morales out of the shadow of Peter Parker.

An appearance in an animated series could be smart, I don't think Caped Crusader will go that route, however. Gotham Knights could've easily taken him, put him next to more established characters, and eased the audience into him. He could easily be used in material aimed at younger audiences too. There's just nothing in or out of the comics, and he's a character I legitimately think would benefit from some promo in other media. And, a push from the outside could, hopefully, lead to what should be some good comic material, because he needs that too.

As for Luke, he's just... there. I think David was the far more interesting character on the paper.

Batwoman did Luke any favors either, they went the "tech nerd" route with no real fighting experience as if boxing isn't a part of his character. They could've meshed the two, and while I don't think that would've upped his profile, I don't think it did anything for those watching either. And, I actually liked the core group on that towards the end.

Although, not like that would've mattered in the case of Luke anyway because DC's synergy with the CW and more recent animated series has been fairly terrible but that's for another thread.

(Duke also would've fit in Batwoman if it wasn't canceled but again not necessarily the profile push he needs).

[lemonpeace]

Is there a reason why Duke and Luke haven't caught on with fans?

I don't think it's necessarily they haven't caught on with fans but I think I understand what you're getting at; and in a word? mismanagement.

Luke is a little more straight forward, Duke is a little more nuanced and befuttling, but ultimately is they both suffer from DC's mismanagement of Batman characters; more specifically, their struggle to manage and build up a black character within Batman's lil personal verse.

Luke, his issue stems from the fact that DC probably shouldn't have created him in the first place. Luke appears to be born out of DC not really knowing how to write a compelling story with Batwing as an African character while still wanting to keep their go to black bat character. so they moved the concept to be something more localized to Gotham and therefore more "accessible". however, simplifying the Batwing character resulted in Luke's Batwing being okay but ultimately pretty generic, hence why people to this day can't tell the difference between David and Luke as Batwing. contentment with having him just being cameo and supporting roles and lack of a really push after his debut further stagnated his character. luckily Jace's introduction and the Fox family drama that comes with him does give Luke hope tho.

Duke suffered from the fact that he came about at a time when Didio's regime was at their most chaotic behind the scenes. he had a solid run with We are Robin but Snyder has spoken about how before, during, and after W.A.R that it was hard to create plans for Duke due to constantly shifting plans and restrictions from the decision-makers above him at the time. this led to a lot of concepts and ideas being thrown at the wall for Duke but none ever really having room or time to take root and develop the character in the eyes of the fandom. while I think it ultimately was a blessing in disguise, because there are now so many interesting threads that come together for Duke, that sporadic development made his character hard to follow which worked against him when DC started getting more and more complacent with cameo spots for Duke like they did with Luke. it didn't help that Damian and Tim Drake fans (and just general oldheads) also dominated the discourse around Duke with thinly-veiled racist objections over his existence when he first came onto the scene.

on the other hand, I feel popular opinion has been incrementally coming around on Duke. to the point where I can see him taking off right now with a solid out of media spotlight or any real large scale push. he has all the ingredients to get him to that next level of notoriety in the DC pantheon, it's just in the execution. All DC really needs to do is tie ALL of his plot threads together, focus more on Duke's meta abilities/history, and give him a simpler more idiosyncratic costume, and his character would be in a far better place.

they both also suffer from a lot of the bigger name creative talent on Batman never really having anything for them and largely only focusing their creative energies toward The Bruces™ then writing about Gotham's bat-network. so the few supporting roles they are largely relegated to are typically inconsequential, which doesn't exactly build intrigue for the characters.

[Nite-Wing]

There's a pretty hard old guard in the bat Fandom who do not want new characters

Duke and Luke and for that matter a few before them like Orpheus will always struggle primarily because the Fandom craves for drama and spotlight

The thinly vieled racism hurled at the characters for even existing and taking a spot of an older character will always be a point of contention

Damian was hated until he latched onto Dick during his Batman run and now there's an overlap between the two characters fanbases
DC is not savvy enough to do things like that anymore so the infighting and fights for spotlight continues

[Aahz]

There's a pretty hard old guard in the bat Fandom who do not want new characters

The size of the Batfamily is also a problem, with every characterthey add it is becoming harder to find a unique new niche for him, with out taking away from an existing char.

David as Batwing in Africa had that, Luke didn't. And Jace imo also not really.

With Duke they kind of tried different once (Robin movement, Metahuman, Outsiders, daylight protector), but I don't think they have really managed to make one work.

[Nite-Wing]

The size of the Batfamily is also a problem, with every characterthey add it is becoming harder to find a unique new niche for him, with out taking away from an existing char.

David as Batwing in Africa had that, Luke didn't. And Jace imo also not really.

With Duke they kind of tried different once (Robin movement, Metahuman, Outsiders, daylight protector), but I don't think they have really managed to make one work.

All of those are original ideas
Apart from the traditional robin or Batgirl role
The only difference here is that you have fans who absolutely don't want those new characters taking up older characters oxygen

Luke got paired with babs for maybe one or two issues and suddenly he became problematic for dick Grayson fans
Luke and Jace are pretty fine as characters but they occupy a unique legacy with their offshoot

Duke has to struggle in the mud without Bruce helping him out as a character

[Aahz]

Luke got paired with babs for maybe one or two issues and suddenly he became problematic for dick Grayson fans
Luke and Jace are pretty fine as characters but they occupy a unique legacy with their offshoot

Apart from being new the job and and the family drama, I don't feel like Luke and Jace solos are really doing different from a Nightwing or Red Robin book.

And if you what role they could fill in the larger Batfamily (in cross overs ect.). I don't think they really add much storywise.

[lemonpeace]

Duke Thomas and Static by Nikolas Draper-Ivey (Static's current artist)

it would be cool to see a story where Duke has an one off adventure with Static on Earth M, or maybe see an Earth M counterpart of Duke Thomas in a Static story.

[lemonpeace]

an....interesting redesign of Duke Thomas as Signal by Mike Becker

[J. D. Guy]

Duke Thomas and Static by Nikolas Draper-Ivey (Static's current artist)

it would be cool to see a story where Duke has an one off adventure with Static on Earth M, or maybe see an Earth M counterpart of Duke Thomas in a Static story.

I love this artist's takeaway! The two looks so good and complementary together!

[J. D. Guy]

an....interesting redesign of Duke Thomas as Signal by Mike Becker

I like the sky-blue cape, but I miss the yellow emphasis on the bodysuit, and not sure how I feel about it being an accent with white being the emphasis.

[J. D. Guy]

Still, I'm always happy and eager to see Duke Thomas fanart!

[lemonpeace]

I like the sky-blue cape, but I miss the yellow emphasis on the bodysuit, and not sure how I feel about it being an accent with white being the emphasis.

it's an interesting approach, I too prefer the yellow emphasis but I think the white, sky blue and gold is a neat enough color scheme that works with Duke's signature daylight motif. my biggest issue is the choice to lean hard into the "Batman by day" interpretation of Duke's role as the Signal, going to far as to even dub him Bat-Signal. it's a personal taste thing, so I can't begrudge him too hard, but not my cup of tea.

[Restingvoice]

Everything Canon is confusing so your preferred Canon question if there's only one version:

Assuming The Riddler's Zero Year attack did happen do you want Duke's role in the story happened as is, meaning he met Bruce when he was 10 and wanted to try The Riddler's challenge with all the risks...

or are you okay if someone rewrite the story so Zero Year did happen early in Batman's career and they met when Duke was still, say, 1-2 years old, therefore his role is only maybe a panel cameo?

Then if the answer is the first, either Zero Year happened later in the timeline, however it fits, so he can still be the current age in the present day, so nothing really change in relationship dynamic...

or it did happen earlier, and he was 10 back then, but now he's the same age as Dick, and only started becoming We Are Robin when he's older than Jason?

(the timeline is an approximation)

or... or... are you okay with erasing Zero Year altogether, therefore their first meeting was in Endgame?

[lemonpeace]

Everything Canon is confusing so your preferred Canon question if there's only one version:

Assuming The Riddler's Zero Year attack did happen do you want Duke's role in the story happened as is, meaning he met Bruce when he was 10 and wanted to try The Riddler's challenge with all the risks...

or are you okay if someone rewrite the story so Zero Year did happen early in Batman's career and they met when Duke was still, say, 1-2 years old, therefore his role is only maybe a panel cameo?

Then if the answer is the first, either Zero Year happened later in the timeline, however it fits, so he can still be the current age in the present day, so nothing really change in relationship dynamic...

or it did happen earlier, and he was 10 back then, but now he's the same age as Dick, and only started becoming We Are Robin when he's older than Jason?

(the timeline is an approximation)

or... or... are you okay with erasing Zero Year altogether, therefore their first meeting was in Endgame?

Iunno, I don't think the Everything is Canon approach is confusing. it makes sense, DC just sucks at enforcing their own rules and so fans have a hard time believing (thus processing and accepting) them. the canon established by Death Metal works, an earth where earlier continuities are essentially multiversal past lives that the they remember, but fans don't believe DC can stick to its guns so they dismiss it as too confusing and keep hoping to return to some other previous incarnation of the DC landscape. Duke's timeline works well enough right now, give or take a month/year or two that can just be corrected by saying "oh, this part here happened for a longer or shorter period of time".