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  1. #511
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    Isn't Gold more Duke's color these days?
    Not yellow, metallic gold, like in her Batgirl days, or in her Future State design. Duke's costume is yellow, not metallic, as far as I can tell.
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  2. #512
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    Isn't Gold more Duke's color these days?
    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    Not yellow, metallic gold, like in her Batgirl days, or in her Future State design. Duke's costume is yellow, not metallic, as far as I can tell.
    Also, the Bat-symbol in Duke's suit isn't yellow or gold. So, it wouldn't really clash.

    I would like a gold/yellow bat-symbol too, but I'm fine with the purple one.

    I want a bat cowl, because Stephanie's current suit looks like a Spoiler suit with a Batsymbol (not a Batgirl suit).
    Last edited by Konja7; 10-17-2021 at 12:10 PM.

  3. #513
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    Quote Originally Posted by Konja7 View Post
    Also, the Bat-symbol in Duke's suit isn't yellow or gold. So, it wouldn't really clash.

    I would like a gold/yellow bat-symbol too, but I'm fine with the purple one.

    I want a bat cowl, because Stephanie's current suit looks like a Spoiler suit with a Batsymbol (not a Batgirl suit).
    Maybe we shouldn't antagonize the Barbara/Batgirl fans even more. Cass is already a full-on Batgirl. Robbi Rodriquez is drawing the entire arc where Barbara is in her new suit and -- it looks just as awful in the preview of tomorrow's Nightwing as it did last month, the sad baggy pajamas.

    I like the Spoiler half-mask, plus her hood is actually a traditional "cowl," it just isn't a form-fitting Bat-cowl. I like it just fine - shows half the face, so expressions come through. Plus, hair looks more natural flowing out the front of a hood, than sticking out through the back (though that's the traditional Batgirl design).

    My main problem is, every time I see Steph in Future State it reminds me of their incredibly stupid idea to blind her in one eye. WHY victimize her of all people, after having tortured and then killed her once? Blind someone else, for crying out loud! (I don't know what fandom would be remotely happy, though.) Anyway, I worry all the time, "is this the issue where she will lose an eye?" We don't know when it happens. The Future State must be coming soon, or how else can it work? If the Magistrate is defeated now, what happens to the Future State: Gotham book? How does DC make it all work? If the Magistrate isn't defeated now, what then? We read the same Batman stories for the next 10 years?

  4. #514
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    Quote Originally Posted by ohfellow View Post
    Maybe we shouldn't antagonize the Barbara/Batgirl fans even more. Cass is already a full-on Batgirl. Robbi Rodriquez is drawing the entire arc where Barbara is in her new suit and -- it looks just as awful in the preview of tomorrow's Nightwing as it did last month, the sad baggy pajamas.

    I like the Spoiler half-mask, plus her hood is actually a traditional "cowl," it just isn't a form-fitting Bat-cowl. I like it just fine - shows half the face, so expressions come through. Plus, hair looks more natural flowing out the front of a hood, than sticking out through the back (though that's the traditional Batgirl design).

    My main problem is, every time I see Steph in Future State it reminds me of their incredibly stupid idea to blind her in one eye. WHY victimize her of all people, after having tortured and then killed her once? Blind someone else, for crying out loud! (I don't know what fandom would be remotely happy, though.) Anyway, I worry all the time, "is this the issue where she will lose an eye?" We don't know when it happens. The Future State must be coming soon, or how else can it work? If the Magistrate is defeated now, what happens to the Future State: Gotham book? How does DC make it all work? If the Magistrate isn't defeated now, what then? We read the same Batman stories for the next 10 years?
    I think Steph should be "full on Batgirl" too, but I don't think anything needs to change other than them making sure to call her Batgirl and treat her like an equal member of the team.

    I prefer a domino mask to the half-mask or the full mask, though I prefer the half-mask to the full mask (sorry, Frontier, gotta say it). And I love her hair.

    Some fans on twitter are theorizing that Steph will lose an eye in the near future, and all I can say is that's a really terrible idea.

    As for Future State itself - I think that Fear State is going to end in such a way that Future State can't really happen. They're much more parallel rather than sequential stories. It'll become like Batman Beyond or The Dark Knight Returns - another parallel alternate future.
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  5. #515
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    So, any ideas whose idea it was to blind Steph?

    One of these?

    1. Editorial
    2. Dan Mora, in his concept art
    3. Meghan Fitzmartin for Future State: Robin Eternal
    4. Vita Ayala for Future State: The Next Batman (Batgirls)

    Robin Eternal was published first, but just barely.

    Could be Fitzmartin's pitch, because think about what else she put into Robin Eternal. Prior to the start of that story, Steph had been blinded and had retired, she and Tim had broken up, and then, in the story, Fitzmartin -- broke Tim's neck! (He "survived" because of Lazarus resin.) That's quite a lot of drama.

    Were there hints in current continuity, before Robin Eternal, that Tim and Steph had broken up?

  6. #516
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    Quote Originally Posted by ohfellow View Post
    Maybe we shouldn't antagonize the Barbara/Batgirl fans even more. Cass is already a full-on Batgirl. Robbi Rodriquez is drawing the entire arc where Barbara is in her new suit and -- it looks just as awful in the preview of tomorrow's Nightwing as it did last month, the sad baggy pajamas.
    How asking for a Bat-cowl antagonizes Barbara fans?

    In itself, Stephanie is one of the Batgirls along Cassandra. They are presented at the same level, so Stephanie should be a full-on Batgirl too.



    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    I think Steph should be "full on Batgirl" too, but I don't think anything needs to change other than them making sure to call her Batgirl and treat her like an equal member of the team.

    I prefer a domino mask to the half-mask or the full mask, though I prefer the half-mask to the full mask (sorry, Frontier, gotta say it). And I love her hair.
    The issue is that the lack of Bat-cowl makes people don't consider Stephanie as Batgirl.

    I suspect DC didn't allow Stephanie to use her Batgirl suit, because it's a pretty traditional Batgirl suit (they allowed Cassandra to use her Batgirl suit, because it wasn't a traditional Batgirl suit). At the end, Barbara still has the more traditional Batgirl suit, which I think it implies they don't want Stephanie and Cassandra to be considered full-on Batgirls.

    I would accept a domino mask with bat ears. I like characters to show face.
    Last edited by Konja7; 10-18-2021 at 07:20 PM.

  7. #517
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    Quote Originally Posted by ohfellow View Post
    So, any ideas whose idea it was to blind Steph?

    One of these?

    1. Editorial
    2. Dan Mora, in his concept art
    3. Meghan Fitzmartin for Future State: Robin Eternal
    4. Vita Ayala for Future State: The Next Batman (Batgirls)

    Robin Eternal was published first, but just barely.

    Could be Fitzmartin's pitch, because think about what else she put into Robin Eternal. Prior to the start of that story, Steph had been blinded and had retired, she and Tim had broken up, and then, in the story, Fitzmartin -- broke Tim's neck! (He "survived" because of Lazarus resin.) That's quite a lot of drama.

    Were there hints in current continuity, before Robin Eternal, that Tim and Steph had broken up?
    I think it's Dan Mora, honestly. Because his promo art was one of the first things ever released from Future State.

    Quote Originally Posted by Konja7 View Post
    The issue is that the lack of Bat-cowl makes people don't consider Stephanie as Batgirl.

    I suspect DC didn't allow Stephanie to use her Batgirl suit, because it's a pretty traditional Batgirl suit (they allowed Cassandra to use her Batgirl suit, because it wasn't a traditional Batgirl suit). At the end, Barbara still has the more traditional Batgirl suit, which I think it implies they don't want Stephanie and Cassandra to be considered full-on Batgirls.

    I would accept a domino mask with bat ears. I like characters to show face.
    I think a domino mask with ears would be sweet. But I think it's unrealistic to expect it.

    I think the real problem with seeing Steph as Batgirl is writing. She has to be written as Batgirl - achieving things, being likeable - and so far, she's had storylines which I think are good, but have kept her from both of those things in the wider fandom.

    It's also a very good point that Steph's Batgirl suit is a bit too close to Babs's, but I think it's different from Babs's current Burnside-esque suit that it wouldn't really cause problems.
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, Aaron Allston
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  8. #518
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    Quote Originally Posted by Konja7 View Post
    How asking for a Bat-cowl antagonizes Barbara fans?
    Because it's almost the same cowl, it would just rub it in that Barbara has been essentially retired from the role and moved into management.

    Steph is being called a Batgirl, and who isn't accepting her as one? You mean in-story, or among fans? I don't think she has to re-adopt Barbara's appearance to be a Batgirl. Each Robin has had a similar appearance, but not identical.

    Each Flash looks a little different. Each GL too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Konja7 View Post
    In itself, Stephanie is one of the Batgirls along Cassandra. They are presented at the same level, so Stephanie should be a full-on Batgirl too.
    By full-on I meant the costume but it was a bad way to express it. They are all full-on Batgirls to me.


    Quote Originally Posted by Konja7 View Post
    The issue is that the lack of Bat-cowl makes people don't consider Stephanie as Batgirl.
    But Barbara stopped wearing the cowl herself, but was still Batgirl with her domino mask/horn thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Konja7 View Post
    I suspect DC didn't allow Stephanie to use her Batgirl suit, because it's a pretty traditional Batgirl suit (they allowed Cassandra to use her Batgirl suit, because it wasn't a traditional Batgirl suit). At the end, Barbara still has the more traditional Batgirl suit, which I think it implies they don't want Stephanie and Cassandra to be considered full-on Batgirls.
    Well you just said Cass IS using her Batgirl suit. Anyway, I think they do want them all to be Batgirls. They now have 3 Wonder Girls, and at least 2 Wonder Women. They have always had a hundred characters named Flash, a hundred thousand named Green Lantern, there's going to be two Aquamen, and now Jon Kent is going by Superman without any qualifications. I keep having to remember that the upcoming one-shot "Superman and Robin" will be about Jon and Damian. JON. He really is Superman.

    Batman is going away - remind me, DC dropped 5G? Really? A new Wonder Woman, a new Aquaman, a new Wonder Girl, a new Superman, a new Batman - lest fandom have any doubt, DC has called his book "I Am Batman" - and right now the only Green Lanterns with power are the two most recent, Jo and Keli.

    Steph and Cass are Batgirls just like all the others really qualify for their mantles. They are young - but so is most of the rest of the generation just stepping up into their new roles. They'd actually fit in with the freshman class at Teen Titans Academy - even the middle generation, with Wallace, Emiko and Roundhouse, is still quite young. I could see our Batgirls hanging out with the Brat Pack or whatever that trio in Academy calls itself. (Is it Brat Girl and the Bat Pack? I don't remember.)

    I guess the word will start arriving in a few hours, what the Cloonan/Conrad take on the Batgirls will be (in the backup story in Batman #115).

  9. #519
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    Quote Originally Posted by ohfellow View Post
    Batman is going away - remind me, DC dropped 5G? Really? A new Wonder Woman, a new Aquaman, a new Wonder Girl, a new Superman, a new Batman - lest fandom have any doubt, DC has called his book "I Am Batman" - and right now the only Green Lanterns with power are the two most recent, Jo and Keli.

    Steph and Cass are Batgirls just like all the others really qualify for their mantles. They are young - but so is most of the rest of the generation just stepping up into their new roles. They'd actually fit in with the freshman class at Teen Titans Academy - even the middle generation, with Wallace, Emiko and Roundhouse, is still quite young. I could see our Batgirls hanging out with the Brat Pack or whatever that trio in Academy calls itself. (Is it Brat Girl and the Bat Pack? I don't remember.)

    I guess the word will start arriving in a few hours, what the Cloonan/Conrad take on the Batgirls will be (in the backup story in Batman #115).
    Well, from what I've heard of 5G, DC is not committing fully to these new characters - you do have Jace/Tim as Batman, Jon as Superman, and Nubia and Hippolyta as Wonder Women, but you ALSO have the main Batman and Wonder Woman titles and Action Comics both featuring Bruce, Diana, and Clark. So fans who want the familiar historical characters can have them as well as the new characters. GL and Flash are a bit different, to be sure, but in Batgirls (and Nightwing), we're promised that Babs is going to be a Batgirl too (not acceptable if you are only willing to have Babs be the ONLY Batgirl, but I think there's going to be more than just "management" in Babs's future).
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, Aaron Allston
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  10. #520
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    Quote Originally Posted by ohfellow View Post
    Steph is being called a Batgirl, and who isn't accepting her as one? You mean in-story, or among fans? I don't think she has to re-adopt Barbara's appearance to be a Batgirl. Each Robin has had a similar appearance, but not identical.
    Stephanie's Batgirl suit in her solo has a similar appearance to Barbara's Batgirl suit, but it isn't identical either (these would be so different from each other like the Robins suits). A cowl in her current suit wouldn't it make identical to Barbara's suit either.

    So far, Stephanie hasn't been called Batgirl in her current suit (except once for Cassandra), she has been called Spoiler in her current suit. Then, I feel like there is a lack of commitment on DC.





    Quote Originally Posted by ohfellow View Post
    But Barbara stopped wearing the cowl herself, but was still Batgirl with her domino mask/horn thing.
    I mean, I would accept that domino mask/horn thing for Stephanie, because it still gives a Batgirl vibe.

    My problem is the current suit of Stephanie only gives a Spoiler vibe. In itself, I fear they only consider and call Stephanie as Batgirl in the Batgirls team, but she would be Spoiler in solo adventures.
    Last edited by Konja7; 10-19-2021 at 07:05 AM.

  11. #521
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    Quote Originally Posted by Konja7 View Post
    . . . My problem is the current suit of Stephanie only gives a Spoiler vibe. In itself, I fear they only consider and call Stephanie as Batgirl in the Batgirls team, but she would be Spoiler in solo adventures.
    In the current comic book stories, isn't Stephanie still technically "Spoiler"?

    She may be a Batgirl in the Batgirls series, but has she ever said anything about "don't call me Spoiler"?

  12. #522
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    In the current comic book stories, isn't Stephanie still technically "Spoiler"?

    She may be a Batgirl in the Batgirls series, but has she ever said anything about "don't call me Spoiler"?
    That's the problem a lot of us are having - that it seems like DC refuses to be clear about anything here. She's in "Batgirls" and is "a Batgirl", but she's not "Batgirl."
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, Aaron Allston
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  13. #523
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    I'm fine with her current costume, but I'm not a fan of the ninja mask.

  14. #524
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I'm fine with her current costume, but I'm not a fan of the ninja mask.
    Knew it was coming! But like the golden bat for me, we all must either live with the things that aren't ideal, or just...mention them every week or so...
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, Aaron Allston
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  15. #525
    Uncanny Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I'm fine with her current costume, but I'm not a fan of the ninja mask.
    But, it's so appropriate these days!

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