Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2021

[MarvelMaster616]

I know my girl.

He's not wrong.

[Omega_DCD]

That tweet doesn't change the fact of what Jean said during her Hellfire Gala speech...she wasn't dreaming then.

But anyway, whether she was or wasn't actually Dark Phoenix, that was merely a frightening possibility made reality. As Jean has said, her real fear is she HERSELF, with all of her power, cutting loose and reveling in it. Becoming Dark Grey, so to speak.

[DarkMagnus]

i like the fact that she and Emma are in "good terms" now.

Not Besties, but respectful coworkers. Heck Emma even told Synch that he will learn form Jean. and you know how she is Mama Bear with her pupils.

[OmegaStorm87]

Jean's had quite a bit of focus in this book. Maybe the most out of any character. Would be refreshing to see that acknowledged instead of somehow making it about Cyclops again, Kitty.

[Starchilde]

I know my girl.

This David person should calm down a bit lol. Actively trying to avoid “Dark Phoenix” is just so unnecessary, it’s her story. Duggan did nothing wrong here.

[Tank]

Yikes. A "Dark Phoenix wasn't Jean" take does not bode well for the character.

If DP wasn't Jean, then the Saga is just a mindless action story. That capacity for darkness is important to the roundedness and the actual point of the character.



It wasn't especially deep, so you do kinda have to read some depth into it, but it was something as opposed to nothing lol.

Let's all campaign to get Dennis Hopeless back in charge of Jean.

Agreed. However, Jean wasnt in the dream
Or nightmare scape when she said she was Dark Phoenix. It was the Hellfire Gala, so her point still stands.

I don’t know why some fans want to be this perfect saint with no tarnish. It’s unrealistic and frankly boring.

[Mercury]

Jean's had quite a bit of focus in this book. Maybe the most out of any character. Would be refreshing to see that acknowledged instead of somehow making it about Cyclops again, Kitty.

That’s our Kitty!

Anyway, I agree with you.

[Mercury]

[PyroFN]

I dont agree that is was some deep character exploration. It was like the stirring the shallowest of waters.

I get being excited that Jean got some panel time, but let’s not blow things out of proportion like it’s some new or exciting character work. It was just sufficient to hit her basic character points like a check list but hardly deep, new or different or even a unique perspective on the current era.

We didnt get any insight into how she currently feels about Krakoa, any hints on how she came to decide to have whatever it is she’s having with Wolverine and Cyclops, how she feels about her new team etc. Her present mind can be of any Jean from in the past which is the issue. Stuck with no growth.

Hm. I actually agree with this take.

I like the acknowledgement that he at least knows the basics of the character, which is more than we can say for other writers, but there wasn’t really anything in character development.

I think the only thing that is new that came from this is Jean’s declaration that because of Dark Phoenix’ actions, she is gonna try to atone her entire life, even though she knows how useless it is. Though Jean in the past has felt guilt about what Dark Phoenix did, she never really expressed this in particular as a reason for being a superhero or doing good for people. In the past, it was usually either loyalty to Xavier or adopting his dream as her own. It’s not a new bad take, just one that doesn’t really change much.

[PyroFN]

Yikes. A "Dark Phoenix wasn't Jean" take does not bode well for the character.

If DP wasn't Jean, then the Saga is just a mindless action story.

More like it was a story of an evil that took Jean’s form and life, but her humanity gave it the human perspective of morality and mortality. Thus, it basically tells that the source of being human can conquer evil.

Not my favorite way of looking at it, but there is still meaning behind the “Jean was not Dark Phoenix” bit. I think I prefer the bit about Jean being Phoenix on a spiritual level to say she knows her capacity for evil and what she would do if she wasn’t careful.

[Grinning Soul]

Hm. I actually agree with this take.

I like the acknowledgement that he at least knows the basics of the character, which is more than we can say for other writers, but there wasn’t really anything in character development.

I think the only thing that is new that came from this is Jean’s declaration that because of Dark Phoenix’ actions, she is gonna try to atone her entire life, even though she knows how useless it is. Though Jean in the past has felt guilt about what Dark Phoenix did, she never really expressed this in particular as a reason for being a superhero or doing good for people. In the past, it was usually either loyalty to Xavier or adopting his dream as her own. It’s not a new bad take, just one that doesn’t really change much.

Don't forget the influence of Sara (who was a hero in her own right - and I *love* that she was not a mutant exactly because of that) in Jean's life and how important that promise was to our young hero:

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

Jean's had quite a bit of focus in this book. Maybe the most out of any character. Would be refreshing to see that acknowledged instead of somehow making it about Cyclops again, Kitty.

She has appeared often, I will say that.
As for Cyclops, that IS why she's in the book lol.

What would have been refreshing for me was Jean sticking it out in the more interesting roles she had before.

This David person should calm down a bit lol. Actively trying to avoid “Dark Phoenix” is just so unnecessary, it’s her story. Duggan did nothing wrong here.

It's not her story though, sadly. As the powers that be are so keen to remind us.

Jean is Marvel Girl. The Phoenix is Cave Lady. They are totally unrelated lol

More like it was a story of an evil that took Jean’s form and life, but her humanity gave it the human perspective of morality and mortality. Thus, it basically tells that the source of being human can conquer evil.

Not my favorite way of looking at it, but there is still meaning behind the “Jean was not Dark Phoenix” bit. I think I prefer the bit about Jean being Phoenix on a spiritual level to say she knows her capacity for evil and what she would do if she wasn’t careful.

The thing about that is that we don't know she has a capacity for evil with her Phoenix story stripped away from her. As the story stands, Thor's mom went on a power-binge before a smidgen of humanity stopped her, while Jean had basically noting to do with it. That means we haven't ever seen the "real" Jean tempted, the blameless little lamb.

Agreed. However, Jean wasnt in the dream
Or nightmare scape when she said she was Dark Phoenix. It was the Hellfire Gala, so her point still stands.

I don’t know why some fans want to be this perfect saint with no tarnish. It’s unrealistic and frankly boring.

It's unrealistic and uncool, but Jean must remain pure. The words are more eloquent today, but it's all still very Jim Shootery and Byrnesque.

[WallStreeter]

What is indicating a great change? Fighting Maddie and/or Cyclops' other evil exes isn't new as it's pretty much the only story she gets, she appeared in HoxPox and that only meant something intentionally negative for her character, Duggan is on the "Phoenix wasn't Jean" train...I'm not seeing anything indicating something transformative, to be honest. I don't know where you're getting it from.

She defeated an A-list demon and it was revealed she got elected to the X-Men in order for the destruction she committed as Dark Phoenix.

Now you don’t have to like it, but be honest. What was actually published proves.

What creators say in online does t matter because they are often es assault trolls online plus don’t want to give away future stories.

[Mercury]

Don't forget the influence of Sara (who was a hero in her own right - and I *love* that she was not a mutant exactly because of that) in Jean's life and how important that promise was to our young hero:

Love this, GS! Is this from Hidden Years?

Again, the biggest character developments for Jean that we got were how she feels currently about the events of the Phoenix/Dark Phoenix storylines, that she questions how she chooses to present herself - a big development, IMO - and that she can handle "a nigh-omnipotent, nigh-omniscient and nigh-omnipresent [Demon] entity who rules the Dream Dimension." That's enough for me!

[WallStreeter]

I can agree with this. They’re afraid to push her boundaries, or have her character grow in any meaningful way. Maybe they don’t care to because she’s always used as a foil for other characters. So baseline Jean always has to be the goody goody, perfect girl next door normal so that she can play off all these other characters that get to show more range.

That’s why I’m so appreciative whenever Jean does get to cut loose or show she’s not this perfect tempered saint. She’s way more than that but we dont see enough of it.

Kitty like to have the most negative interpretation possible despite the obvious evidence Marvel is pushing sting female characters forward.

Storm became Regent of Sol and she is not the only woman to
Move up. Elizabeth Braddock became Captain Britain. The White Queen outwitted Sinister.

Jean even leasing a team in the field is a big change from Hox. So is defeating Nightmare.

This is an era in which powerful female characters get pushed and some pretend it doesn’t exist. When Jean becomes Phoenix some people will deny.