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  1. #5956
    Jean Grey Scholar Mercury's Avatar
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    Loving the discourse. Please keep it going and coming. Also…

    Jean’s new code name should be Nexus of Probabilities:


  2. #5957
    Jean Grey Scholar Mercury's Avatar
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    Also, love all of this, Omega.

    Quote Originally Posted by Omega_DCD View Post
    Very good post, you definitely presented the intent of the training much better than Emma by way of Bendis did...as for what would I have Jean do telepathically to Blob? I'm saying that I wouldn't have wanted the whole Madripoor/Blob scenario at all. I wanted a telepathic training scenario. I mean, the whole purpose was Jean's TP being unlocked sooner than originally, caused her to use her powers in whole new ways...pink form was one outcome, who's to say more abilities wouldn't have developed as well. Maybe manipulating Astral Plane energies onto the corporeal Plane...similar to what Nate Grey did to Xavier...perhaps the reverse,, converting her physical body into an Astral one(instead of leaving her body unconscious as most telepaths do when projecting onto the Astral Plane), maybe looking similar to how Amelia Vought mist-based teleportation/conversion. A deeper understanding for both Jean and Emma of what might be possible (even if not until she's adult Jean again) given her new developmental track is what I would have wanted. Bring in some of Emma's old school intellect and ingenuity in how she would analyze such a powerset.

    That said, in the absence of actual on panel or referenced telepathic skill training from Emma, I have no problems attributing those developments to Jean herself. She's a quick learner. No one taught her how to project a psychic illusion...and yes she messed up the first time by projecting broadly instead of a targeted illusion, but then right after she does it correctly and incapacitates Lady Mastermind with her own specialty, illusions

    Xavier said that when he unlocked Jean's telepathy, that she quickly became a telepath of intricate complexity...I see no reason why the same wouldn't be true when her TP unlocked due to his absence.

    If Emma couldn't show one telepathic skill being taught in a whole issue dedicated to training, I'm not sure I'd be willing to credit her with the Extraordinary/Blue era skills you've listed by Jean. Teen Jean had a lot thrown her way since coming into the present, and as Emma basically says, there's something to be said about Field training

    I do agree with Emma telling Jean to basically be all she can be, but that's a tidy, generic, boilerplate piece of advice that could have come from any mentor, and perhaps would have landed better had she not flicked off Jean's telepathy, when the very ability that prompted the lessons in the first place came about BECAUSE Jean's powers were working together far sooner than before.

  3. #5958
    Fantastic Member Omega_DCD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercury View Post
    Loving the discourse. Please keep it going and coming. Also…

    Jean’s new code name should be Nexus of Probabilities:

    I do so love this unconventional "side-effect" Jean has on Destiny by simply existing. And partly why I think Phoenix or no Phoenix, Jean's true ultimate potential is related to the M'Kraan Crystal/WHR itself.

    I'd also theorize that it could be related to how Rachel and Cable inherited their 4th dimensional/temporal abilities

  4. #5959
    Mighty Member Marvelboy1974's Avatar
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    “Nexus”…. Interesting code name

  5. #5960
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    Idk man I hear nexus I go Wanda and the man-thing as an afterthought.

  6. #5961
    Jean Grey Scholar Mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderfan001 View Post
    Idk man I hear nexus I go Wanda and the man-thing as an afterthought.
    Who was referred to as “a nexus” first?

    Get that Spidey sense a tinglin’ and answer the question! 😂🤣

  7. #5962
    Spectacular Member PyroFN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega_DCD View Post
    Very good post, you definitely presented the intent of the training much better than Emma by way of Bendis did...as for what would I have Jean do telepathically to Blob? I'm saying that I wouldn't have wanted the whole Madripoor/Blob scenario at all. I wanted a telepathic training scenario. I mean, the whole purpose was Jean's TP being unlocked sooner than originally, caused her to use her powers in whole new ways...pink form was one outcome, who's to say more abilities wouldn't have developed as well. Maybe manipulating Astral Plane energies onto the corporeal Plane...similar to what Nate Grey did to Xavier...perhaps the reverse,, converting her physical body into an Astral one(instead of leaving her body unconscious as most telepaths do when projecting onto the Astral Plane), maybe looking similar to how Amelia Vought mist-based teleportation/conversion. A deeper understanding for both Jean and Emma of what might be possible (even if not until she's adult Jean again) given her new developmental track is what I would have wanted. Bring in some of Emma's old school intellect and ingenuity in how she would analyze such a powerset.

    That said, in the absence of actual on panel or referenced telepathic skill training from Emma, I have no problems attributing those developments to Jean herself. She's a quick learner. No one taught her how to project a psychic illusion...and yes she messed up the first time by projecting broadly instead of a targeted illusion, but then right after she does it correctly and incapacitates Lady Mastermind with her own specialty, illusions

    Xavier said that when he unlocked Jean's telepathy, that she quickly became a telepath of intricate complexity...I see no reason why the same wouldn't be true when her TP unlocked due to his absence.

    If Emma couldn't show one telepathic skill being taught in a whole issue dedicated to training, I'm not sure I'd be willing to credit her with the Extraordinary/Blue era skills you've listed by Jean. Teen Jean had a lot thrown her way since coming into the present, and as Emma basically says, there's something to be said about Field training

    I do agree with Emma telling Jean to basically be all she can be, but that's a tidy, generic, boilerplate piece of advice that could have come from any mentor, and perhaps would have landed better had she not flicked off Jean's telepathy, when the very ability that prompted the lessons in the first place came about BECAUSE Jean's powers were working together far sooner than before.
    That’s fair. All-New is far from my favorite series and the choices for character direction are not all that interesting to me, except for some. Bendis wrote through the character dialogue that Emma would train Jean’s telepathy, yet we get her training Jean’s telekinesis? It is baffling.

    My question was more to ask you what you think Bendis would have written Teen Jean to do had her telepathy not been locked in the issue? This is more looking at Bendis characterizing Teen Jean, rather than what we would have preferred. Kind of to see what he was trying to go for behind all the….bad takes on Emma. I can say that I would have preferred telepathic training by Emma as well if I were writing that issue.

    I can buy Jean learning things on her own, but only through trial and tribulations through a span of time. Bendis did present Jean learning illusions, but this is also coming from the man that had Jean putting Wolverine to sleep the moment her telepathic powers awaken without even seeing another telepath perform anything remotely the same. So, it might not be a stretch by Bendis characterization for Jean to perfect new abilities through first go’s. I just personally find it hard to believe a telepath can naturally learn things like psychic looping without a teacher of sort. Jean is insanely good, but not perfect.

    I mean, it might sound a little ridiculous that Emma did taught Jean things off-panel, but I can’t really say it makes better sense that Jean even knew the existence of dulling another person’s pain with her telepathy without at least seeing it first. And since Jean has never seen someone’s pain be dulled in the field, I could be attributed to Jean figuring out for herself.
    Last edited by PyroFN; 07-25-2021 at 09:12 PM.

  8. #5963
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercury View Post
    Who was referred to as “a nexus” first?

    Get that Spidey sense a tinglin’ and answer the question! ����
    I'm guessing Jean, I have no clue.

    But it's like the human torch, your mind will go to Jonny storm but he's not the one who had the name first.

  9. #5964
    Jean Grey Scholar Mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderfan001 View Post
    I'm guessing Jean, I have no clue.

    But it's like the human torch, your mind will go to Jonny storm but he's not the one who had the name first.
    Mine goes to Jean first. Also, I'm not sure Wanda was ever referred to as "a nexus of probabilities"; just a "nexus being."

  10. #5965
    Ultimate Member Wiccan's Avatar
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    "Nexus being" is an established concept that has a specific meaning, even if it's not used that much. Someone saying Jean is a "Nexus of probabilities" once is vague and doesn't really have any importance without it being build up upon. Seems like it's a matter of her future being very undefined with a lot more probabilities for how it could go than others.

  11. #5966
    Jean Grey Scholar Mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiccan View Post
    "Nexus being" is an established concept that has a specific meaning, even if it's not used that much. Someone saying Jean is a "Nexus of probabilities" once is vague and doesn't really have any importance without it being build up upon. Seems like it's a matter of her future being very undefined with a lot more probabilities for how it could go than others.
    Destiny also called Jean an anomaly.



    Also, per Marvel Fandom:

    Nexus Beings are rare individual entities with the ability to affect probability and thus the future, thereby altering the flow of the Universal Time Stream.
    Jean (Earth-9250) is also listed as a Nexus Being, which is interesting. Never read anything having to do with that Jean.

    (source: https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Glossary:Nexus_Beings)

    In either case, the definitions for the word "nexus" are interesting:

    -a connection or series of connections linking two or more things.

    -a connected group or series.

    -the central and most important point or place.
    Finally, Wiki refers to the Phoenix Force as:

    "the nexus of all psionic energy that does, has, and ever will exist in all realities of the multiverse, the Guardian of Creation, and of the dangerously powerful M'Kraan Crystal."
    (source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_Force_(comics))

    This makes sense because as White Phoenix, Jean was able to alter reality so that Scott and Emma would become partners.

    I find all of this fascinating if a little irrelevant, lol.

  12. #5967
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercury View Post
    Mine goes to Jean first. Also, I'm not sure Wanda was ever referred to as "a nexus of probabilities"; just a "nexus being."
    I mean you are a Jean fan of the highest order.
    And Wanda has always been more related to "nexus" and specially "probabilities" imo.

  13. #5968
    Extraordinary Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    Yes, the term 'Nexus" has been applied to Jean. The Phoenix Force is the Nexus of all Psychic energy. Jean is/was The Phoenix. Thus, Jean is a Nexus.

    I liked Jean appearing as an anomaly to Destiny. I wish more would have been revealed later on...
    [Quote Originally Posted by Thor-El 10-15-2020 12:32 PM]


    "Jason Aaron should know there is already a winner of the Phoenix Force and his name is Phoenixx9."

  14. #5969
    Jean Grey Scholar Mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderfan001 View Post
    I mean you are a Jean fan of the highest order.
    And Wanda has always been more related to "nexus" and specially "probabilities" imo.
    You are correct; she has definitely been associated with both more often.

    This leads me to another question I have: If Jean (sans the Phoenix Force) and Wanda were to battle, Jean would be able to defeat Wanda by telepathically incapacitating her, right? I mean, I know in the MCU they gave Wanda telepathy - a power she did not have in the comic books if I remember correctly - but Jean is the most powerful telepath. Of course, Wanda could get the upper hand if she acted first, but even still, couldn't Jean telepathically force Wanda to direct her powers at something or someone else, including herself?

    Additionally, from what I have seen, specifically in Avengers vs. X-Men, Wanda's chaos magic alone could not defeat the White Phoenix. While Wanda can hold her own against and even subdue fragments of the Phoenix Force, she cannot do the same when it comes to taking on the Phoenix Force when it is whole. She had to plead with Hope Summers to let her help her rid herself of the Phoenix. if Jean were to once again become the White Phoenix, she could defeat Wanda with ease, I believe.

    Of course, I find all of this fascinating.

  15. #5970
    Extraordinary Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercury View Post

    This leads me to another question I have: If Jean (sans the Phoenix Force) and Wanda were to battle, Jean would be able to defeat Wanda by telepathically incapacitating her, right? I mean, I know in the MCU they gave Wanda telepathy - a power she did not have in the comic books if I remember correctly - but Jean is the most powerful telepath. Of course, Wanda could get the upper hand if she acted first, but even still, couldn't Jean telepathically force Wanda to direct her powers at something or someone else, including herself?

    Additionally, from what I have seen, specifically in Avengers vs. X-Men, Wanda's chaos magic alone could not defeat the White Phoenix. While Wanda can hold her own against and even subdue fragments of the Phoenix Force, she cannot do the same when it comes to taking on the Phoenix Force when it is whole. She had to plead with Hope Summers to let her help her rid herself of the Phoenix. if Jean were to once again become the White Phoenix, she could defeat Wanda with ease, I believe.

    Of course, I find all of this fascinating.
    Yes, you are correct. Wanda cannot defeat the White Phoenix, let alone the Pure Phoenix Force itself.

    Depending on Wanda's level of power at the time, she may not even be able to defeat Green Jean Phoenix.
    [Quote Originally Posted by Thor-El 10-15-2020 12:32 PM]


    "Jason Aaron should know there is already a winner of the Phoenix Force and his name is Phoenixx9."

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