Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2021

[Tank]

They did merge that is what classic X-men 8 shows, plus in Claremont’s revolution run Jean states she allowed their souls to merge. This is the merger I’m referencing. The Phoenix “copy” wasn’t just a copy because a part of Jean was in there. Jean gave it her humanity. The Phoenix returned what it “borrowed” in Inferno.

I agree with MechaJeanix. People post to her original resurrection like it’s aboslutely true. It’s the word of Captain America who wouldn’t know what the f is going on. He wasnt there,neither were the Avengers or FF. Heck an incomplete Jean often times isn’t fully aware of what happened either.

But we as the reader are shown exactly what happened in classic xmen. Phoenix transfers Jean’s entire mind/consciousness/soul into the new body and merge there. She is surprised to still find the old body and comes to realize a small piece of Jean’s soul remaining in the old body because that part rejected the phoenix’s gift. She decides to let it heal as it could be a 2nd chance.

So most of Jean was Phoenix. She didnt have all of herself returned to her until later. Probably her human bits when Phoenix died on the moon which allowed her to awaken, and then the rest of her phoenix memories in Inferno.

This is more apparent in the krakoan era because this sort of trasnfer is exactly what the xmen are doing and it’s still considered the character. Why would an even more complete transfer not be?

If orchis Jean survived are you naysayers going to say which Jean, Orchis or post orchis Jean is real? They BOTH are real.

[MechaJeanix]

I agree with MechaJeanix. People post to her original resurrection like it’s aboslutely true. It’s the word of Captain America who wouldn’t know what the f is going on. Heck an incomplete Jean often times isn’t fully aware of what happened either.

But we as the reader are shown exactly what happened in classic xmen. Phoenix transfers Jean’s entire mind/consciousness/soul into the new body and merge there. She is surprised to still find the old body and comes to realize a small piece of Jean’s soul remaining in the old body because that part rejected the phoenix’s gift. She decides to let it heal as it could be a 2nd chance.

So most of Jean was Phoenix. She didnt have all of herself returned to her until later.

This is more apparent in the krakoan era because this sort of trasnfer is exactly what the xmen are doing and it’s still considered the character. Why would an even more complete transfer not be?

Yep you got it! And you are right about the Classic x-men 8 backstory though many writers seem to invert what happened -saying only a portion went to the merger , but the actual story implies only a spark was left in the original body in the cocoon. Either way a part of Jean was present in the original story and that matters. It’s often neglected which is frustrating. Taking Jean out of one of her big stories was gross. It happens to this character too much as we’ve discussed many times over the years. Claremont knew what he was doing with the back story and with Inferno.

[Havok83]

People act like the phoenix story is binary. Its either this or that and take the original story and the X-Factor retcon as two isolated conflicting twists. They arent. Things make more sense when you accept both and and use the context which has provided since then to understand what truly happened

[Aeon]

Oh, so Jean’s essence was in the PF entity the whole time? That describes a couple of things, like her guilt talking.
I often had the impression that writers established Jean as the one and only Phoenix, especially in the time around her comeback a few years ago.


But I guess it’s healthier to puzzle a little bit around by myself with her story..

[Havok83]

Oh, so Jean’s essence was in the PF entity the whole time? That describes a couple of things, like her guilt talking.
I often had the impression that writers established Jean as the one and only Phoenix, especially in the time around her comeback a few years ago.

Quite the opposite. Marvel has deemphazied Jean as Phoenix and given the PF to countless characters in recent years. Jean rejected the Phoenix when she came back and reclaimed her identity as Jean sans it

[Tank]

Oh, so Jean’s essence was in the PF entity the whole time? That describes a couple of things, like her guilt talking.
I often had the impression that writers established Jean as the one and only Phoenix, especially in the time around her comeback a few years ago.


But I guess it’s healthier to puzzle a little bit around by myself with her story..

Yes, Jean’s essence was in the phoenix created body.

Since she came back in Phoenix resurrection, she again rejected the phoenix and now we have the mess that is Jason Aaron’s run handing it out like a bad case of herpes. Lol

Writers still refer to her as the original phoenix though as just shown in Duggan’s X-Men 4.

[Aeon]

Sorry, I meant I had the impression that writers made Jean and PF the same. Jean=PF=Jean, during her resurrection up until now.

[Mercury]

It's important to note that, while Jean's return in Fantastic Four was drafted by John Byrne, it was fine-tuned and also written by Chris Claremont.

https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Fantastic_Four_Vol_1_286

[Tank]

It's important to note that, while Jean's return in Fantastic Four was drafted by John Byrne, it was fine-tuned and also written by Chris Claremont.

https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Fantastic_Four_Vol_1_286

Editorially mandated. Byrne was always a Jean as Phoenix hater because he didnt like a woman being so powerful, so he took this chance to try and wipe that all away. The result is that mess in FF 286 where we have characters that have no clue what happened on that shuttle TELL an incomplete Jean like it was set in stone.

Claremont had the foresight and creativity to salvage his story the best he could and wrote the Classic xmen issues which showed exactly what happened.

[Tank]

Also Byrne was the one that drew the d’bari planet as inhabited (on purpose or not who knows), when the script called for an uninhabited planet. So everything had to be changed and we have the version we have today.

I think he did it in purpose because he wanted Jean gone. I love the man’s art, but what ive read about his views has turned me off him.

[Mercury]

I love that her history and intimate connection with the Phoenix Force are being acknowledged in this era, but I'm ready for her to move on to the next stage of her development. There is much to touch upon and explore in regards to her history, internal landscape, and powers.

[MechaJeanix]

Editorially mandated. Byrne was always a Jean as Phoenix hater because he didnt like a woman being so powerful, so he took this chance to try and wipe that all away. The result is that mess in FF 286 where we have characters that have no clue what happened on that shuttle TELL an incomplete Jean like it was set in stone.

Claremont had the foresight and creativity to salvage his story the best he could and wrote the Classic xmen issues which showed exactly what happened.

Correct again. Claremont has discussed before about rewriting parts of Jean’s return in the 80s. The problem was that Byrne saw the Phoenix as an evil entity where Claremont saw it differently. You are correct that Claremont used the back stories and Inferno to essentially weaken the retcon. Claremont consistently put Jean back with the Phoenix-look at his revolution run, X-men The end, etc. Afterall he created it for her.

Edit/ created the Marvel version of it of course before someone tries to correct me.

[Tank]

I love that her history and intimate connection with the Phoenix Force are being acknowledged in this era, but I'm ready for her to move on to the next stage of her development. There is much to touch upon and explore in regards to her history, internal landscape, and powers.

Agree, I just want to see Jean put in some new situations where she has to make tough moral choices. Where there isn’t a clear right or wrong answer. I want her to grow as a result.

Jean is compassionate, but that compassion will quickly turn to anger and violence if she or those she loves is threatened. She was described as a furnace of violent emotions in New XMen and that’s one of the reasons I loved her New Xmen portrayal. She came off as dangerous, powerful, confident and flawed.

This current Jean is still too “nice” even when she’s threatened. Too big moments with both Cassandra and Nightmare where she’s too pacifist and….passive. It’s boring tbh and not enough fire in her.

[Devaishwarya]

Yes...we all know the Byrne/Claremont/Shooter tiffs. Especially regarding Jean and the Phoenix.
But still...Claremont was essentially being a playground bully with "his" toys. Completely forgetting that he didn't have sole ownership of these characters, regardless of how he felt about them or how long he's been writing them. Holding on so tightly to your vision so that no one else couldn't do anything more with it was petty.
No wonder Editorial had issues, later on.

[Omega_DCD]

Mental-Megamorphic Jean looming over her enemies is my new favorite thing


I get what Tank is saying, but I feel this was an improvement over the moment with Nova. At least she smacks the hell out of him(and later his horse), and isn't trying to "make him better", but straight up says not only will I know if you come around again, I will end you if you do. That is not wishy-washy. That is very blunt. And I kinda like Jean this way, not going bombastic over every thing, but then has every right to "end" someone when they don't listen. "You were warned!"