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  1. #8101
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike7171 View Post
    Well, she already rejected the Phoenix in the Jean Grey Resurrection. Jean and the bird already went on a break. And Phoenix is already used by Echo. So yeah, Jean can't claim the name.
    I for one am glad she's not phoenix, she's all Jean. I want to see her do feats that no one can say "coz she has the phoenix, that's why". She can still be powerful without a boost from a cosmic bird.
    With the excepting extreme stuff like blowing up a star, there’s pretty much nothing Jean needs the Phoenix for. She ha resurrected herself without the Phoenix on more than one occasion.

    I mean Jean was part of a team that terraformed a planet.

    I still think she should get the codename Phoenix back. But they built Jean into a powerful character that doesn’t need the force.

  2. #8102
    Mighty Member MechaJeanix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PyroFN View Post
    Jean finding the culprit where Oracle couldn’t, Jean deciding with Scott to save the Sword bearers in Otherworld, Jean taking a stand in the Quiet Council despite the threat of losing her position (which she would have been able to get back if she hadn’t gone with another X-Men team), Jean accompanying Emma throughout Storm’s mind, Jean’s moments with Storm signifying their friendship, and connecting the minds of almost every mutant on the planet. That is if we are talking just Hickman’s writing specifically.
    A good reminder that the character has had many good moments in the current era and yes under Hickman. Personally I’m loving Duggan’s Jean in X-men.

  3. #8103
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    Quote Originally Posted by MechaJeanix View Post
    I get where you are coming from but the framing bothers me. Jean has plenty of feats without the Phoenix and good ones. Being Phoenix is not invalidating to other characters so why is it for Jean? Because a few loud Jean haters say so and then we also adopt that framing? We never judge Rachel for being the Phoenix-as of it takes away from her power or stunts.

    Jean’s best era to me is Morrison’s run where she was both an omega level mutant and Phoenix -best of both versions of the character. Though I agree Phoenix is tainted and it is good that Jean is a powerful character with out -which has been true for many years.
    Phoenix is a convoluted mess that am glad is gone in Jean's life. Plus I like the narrative that Taylor stated in X-Men Red Annual, where the "phoenix is holding jean grey back".

  4. #8104
    Jean Grey Scholar Mercury's Avatar
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    Jean is able to match Doctor Doom’s blasts. He admits that her psychic powers are “very impressive.” “The strongest I’ve ever come across.” From All-New X-Men #36 (2015):


  5. #8105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercury View Post
    Jean is able to match Doctor Doom’s blasts. He admits that her psychic powers are “very impressive.” “The strongest I’ve ever come across.” From All-New X-Men #36 (2015):

    Ultimate Doctor Doom(from 1610, Miles's homeworld) IIRC, but yeah

  6. #8106
    Jean Grey Scholar Mercury's Avatar
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    Spidey, you stickler! ��

    Try this on for size. (No alternate universes added. Low fat.)

    The moment Jean “unlocked a new level of [her] power,” allowing her to “take in all the psionic energy around [her],” aka psychic siphoning or psychic energy absorption. The Cuckoos…well, they cuckoo. From All-New X-Men #29 (2014):




  7. #8107
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    Quote Originally Posted by MechaJeanix View Post
    I get where you are coming from but the framing bothers me. Jean has plenty of feats without the Phoenix and good ones. Being Phoenix is not invalidating to other characters so why is it for Jean? Because a few loud Jean haters say so and then we also adopt that framing? We never judge Rachel for being the Phoenix-as of it takes away from her power or stunts.

    Jean’s best era to me is Morrison’s run where she was both an omega level mutant and Phoenix -best of both versions of the character. Though I agree Phoenix is tainted and it is good that Jean is a powerful character with out -which has been true for many years.
    The Phoenix is only tainted because writers keep trying to give it to other characters and those stories end up being terrible, whenever it's used with Jean it's typically received pretty well. I just think Jean needs the Phoenix because it's part of her superhero identity, since Marvel Girl is so generic sounding, and the imagery and especially the costume are a key part of her visual that haven't really been superseded by any post-Phoenix inclusions, with the possible exception of the 90s look, and without all that it's difficult to really distinguish her from all the other redheads that Marvel has in its repertoire.

  8. #8108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercury View Post
    Spidey, you stickler! ��

    Try this on for size. (No alternate universes added. Low fat.)

    The moment Jean “unlocked a new level of [her] power,” allowing her to “take in all the psionic energy around [her],” aka psychic siphoning or psychic energy absorption. The Cuckoos…well, they cuckoo. From All-New X-Men #29 (2014):



    So badass, reminds me of Gwen's final form(don't know what's it called) from Ben 10.

    Also anyone notice that Rachel from friends wears the same shirt/sweater thing(Idk anything about clothes...) as Jean w/ the X on it.Is it similar or am I seeing things

  9. #8109
    Jean Grey Scholar Mercury's Avatar
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    I have no idea about the sweater. Also, she reminds of Atom Eve, who was totally inspired by her, from the fantastic Invincible.

    Now, for some important news. It seems I’m right about Jean having a moment in Inferno. From the teaser thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by Purplevit View Post
    Mark Brooks

    I should note that every character appears here for a reason and everyone's actions and positions is on purpose. Nothing is haphazard and every character has a motivation or reaction.


  10. #8110
    LET JEAN GREY BE FREE! Kitty&Piotr<3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PwrdOn View Post
    The Phoenix is only tainted because writers keep trying to give it to other characters and those stories end up being terrible, whenever it's used with Jean it's typically received pretty well. I just think Jean needs the Phoenix because it's part of her superhero identity, since Marvel Girl is so generic sounding, and the imagery and especially the costume are a key part of her visual that haven't really been superseded by any post-Phoenix inclusions, with the possible exception of the 90s look, and without all that it's difficult to really distinguish her from all the other redheads that Marvel has in its repertoire.
    Nevermind that stripping her of her iconography is lame af, they won't let her have the flashy pink form that Bendis pushed either, which tells us that it's not about her power coming from an external force that bothers the haters (and don't get me started about the Phoenix being an external thing separate from Jean).
    "Yes, it was a kind of adultery, but at the same time Jean wasn't being his wife anymore. I just felt that the spark between them had died out and it was time to give Scott someone else."
    -Grant Morrison on how it was Jean's fault Scott cheated.

    "Cyclops loves wilted roses because they remind him of dead redheads."
    -Gail

  11. #8111
    Beware! Daedra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PwrdOn View Post
    The Phoenix is only tainted because writers keep trying to give it to other characters and those stories end up being terrible, whenever it's used with Jean it's typically received pretty well. I just think Jean needs the Phoenix because it's part of her superhero identity, since Marvel Girl is so generic sounding, and the imagery and especially the costume are a key part of her visual that haven't really been superseded by any post-Phoenix inclusions, with the possible exception of the 90s look, and without all that it's difficult to really distinguish her from all the other redheads that Marvel has in its repertoire.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kitty&Piotr<3 View Post
    Nevermind that stripping her of her iconography is lame af, they won't let her have the flashy pink form that Bendis pushed either, which tells us that it's not about her power coming from an external force that bothers the haters (and don't get me started about the Phoenix being an external thing separate from Jean).
    Perfectly said, I could not agree more, people can argue all day but this is a perfect representation of the issue at stake. Thank you
    Last edited by Daedra; 09-24-2021 at 04:34 PM.
    Ommadon: “By summoning all the dark powers I will infest the spirit of man So that he uses his science and logic to destroy himself. Greed and avarice shall prevail, and those who do not hear my words shall pay the price. I'll teach man to use his machines, I'll show him what distorted science can give birth to. I'll teach him to fly like a fairy, and I'll give him the ultimate answer to all his science can ask. And the world will be free for my magic again.”

  12. #8112
    Incredible Member Omega_DCD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitty&Piotr<3 View Post
    "Yes, it was a kind of adultery, but at the same time Jean wasn't being his wife anymore. I just felt that the spark between them had died out and it was time to give Scott someone else."
    -Grant Morrison on how it was Jean's fault Scott cheated.
    Just noticed your signature with this quote...Morrison's take on Jean&Scott is disgusting. He just sought to create a solution in search of a problem.

  13. #8113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega_DCD View Post
    Just noticed your signature with this quote...Morrison's take on Jean&Scott is disgusting. He just sought to create a solution in search of a problem.
    All his premise was as laughable as the designated replacement ……… morrison’s disposable view when it comes to these female characters is disgusting.
    Ommadon: “By summoning all the dark powers I will infest the spirit of man So that he uses his science and logic to destroy himself. Greed and avarice shall prevail, and those who do not hear my words shall pay the price. I'll teach man to use his machines, I'll show him what distorted science can give birth to. I'll teach him to fly like a fairy, and I'll give him the ultimate answer to all his science can ask. And the world will be free for my magic again.”

  14. #8114
    Mighty Member MechaJeanix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike7171 View Post
    Phoenix is a convoluted mess that am glad is gone in Jean's life. Plus I like the narrative that Taylor stated in X-Men Red Annual, where the "phoenix is holding jean grey back".
    I liked many things about X-men Red even though I was critical at times on this very forum, and I get what they were saying... that Jean can push the limits of her powers without fear of the phoenix force taking hold. Though I admit that Taylor having Jean say she hasn't used cerebro without the fear of phoenix taking over was a bit much. Jean had been separated from the Phoenix before.

    I guess for me I just see Phoenix as Jean's perfect codename. I loved the versions of Jean as Phoenix so it is hard to let go. But I also love Jean without it and agree that she doesn't need it. I think it can add to her but I cringe at the idea that it takes something away from the character (because it doesn't for Rachel or any other phoenix host).

  15. #8115
    Astonishing Member Thirteen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitty&Piotr<3 View Post
    The X-Men group editor has said why she went back to the Marvel Girl costume.

    They don't like her as Phoenix and didn't feel like doing a new costume and identity. Jean is an afterthought when we are talking about anything beyond minimizing her abilities and making sure she is wherever Cyclops is.



    https://aiptcomics.com/2021/06/14/x-...e-gala-week-2/
    The citation of the statement about Jean being Marvel Girl and not Phoenix and not a new identity needs an end quote to separate the editor response and your commentary, to be fair. They don't like her as Phoenix and didn't feel like doing a new costume and identity.. Prob worth mentioning that he gives the disclaimer that they just don't think "Marvel Woman" sounds good.

    Atom Eve from INVINCIBLE was mentioned as a Jean-alike. I'll have to look her up. The name alone reminds me of the homage to Jean in the Outback era of X-MEN...

    and of her iconic takedown of Sabretooth


    And in closing, a lovely Jean Marvel variant(s) by Shannon Maer that I hadn't seen before.
    Last edited by Thirteen; 09-24-2021 at 06:19 PM.
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