Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2021

[Vishop]

You guys like to blame Cyclops for every **** that happens to Jean, but my man has literally been never propped up or portrayed as an actual protagonist in the current era, except for the very end of X of Swords LMAO He's a fucking glorified observer.

Eh, HoX, PoX rings any bell? Not to mention there are more than enough number of issues that either centered around Cyclops or Cyclops had been characterized fluently.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

Jean supporting Rachel seems even less likely than her being portrayed as powerful lol.

Lmao she supported her in X-Men Red a bit

Im scratching my head on this, the Marvel Girl dress seems to be a obvious reference to the period just before she got the Phoenix.

But then, why a writer would be this obvious

Right. It's before she became Phoenix. Before she got all wild. Before progressivism and women's lib got out of hand and put her on par with a male hero like Thor and made her more powerful than the main character of the X-Men.

Hickman has her in what archaic, fragile, republicanesque men see as the proper position for all women: mom and secretary.

Jean is going to be virtually in the pit for this run, save for the precious moments when the more modern Ben Percy spares her.

[Zelena]

Im scratching my head on this, the Marvel Girl dress seems to be a obvious reference to the period just before she got the Phoenix.

But then, why a writer would be this obvious

Maybe, Hickman wants Jean Grey to be powerful again?

When you are already powerful, there’s no real need for you to be more powerful. It makes little sense. The journey to empowerment is only spectacular if you start by being weak.

I still find this unlikely: Hickman just looks uninterested by Jean Grey.

[Exodus]

Lmao she supported her in X-Men Red a bit




Right. It's before she became Phoenix. Before she got all wild. Before progressivism and women's lib got out of hand and put her on par with a male hero like Thor and made her more powerful than the main character of the X-Men.

Hickman has her in what archaic, fragile, republicanesque men see as the proper position for all women: mom and secretary.

Jean is going to be virtually in the pit for this run, save for the precious moments when the more modern Ben Percy spares her.

Amen!

But don't forget "lover". Jean is always defined by relationships to men.

[PrezValentine]

Eh, HoX, PoX rings any bell? Not to mention there are more than enough number of issues that either centered around Cyclops or Cyclops had been characterized fluently.

LMAO No. He was more active in HoX, I'll give you that, but at no point it was about his views or his character, he was just a vehicle for a plot development such as any other character not named Charles, Erik or Moira. Let's call things for what they are, right? Cyclops might have been the central piece in the past, but that certainly isn't the case right now and his current role is most certainly not the reason Jean isn't portrayed the way you wish.

I'll leave it at this, so this thread isn't clogged with off-topic discussion.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

She's not off the council, demoted from Omega TK, and running around in old duds to further her story. We know that much.

Cyke shippers not writing Jean Grey should be a rule lol

[WallStreeter]

Hell no, what Odin has to do with Jean? it would a totally badly fanfic, even with the Phoenix retcon



Cyclops is clearly the protagonist on x-men, he probably got less atention because Hickman is wandering around with the stories. But Scott is getting some good page time on X-men, bigger than anyone else



Im scratching my head on this, the Marvel Girl dress seems to be a obvious reference to the period just before she got the Phoenix.

But then, why a writer would be this obvious

I think this is why some writers don´t like Jean Grey. If all her stories have to do with her being the faithful wife to Cyclops (ideal woman pre women´s movement), Xavier´s protege/student, and blowing things up as Dark Phoenix, it means many writers both male and female find her BORING.

Because there´s nothing to really write about. No adventure. Tying the Phoenix to other things across the cosmos such as Asgard make way for a lot of new stories, and yes having Jean remember Cavelady´s life and considering what kind of relationship that would give her to Odin AND other Asgardians including Thor would be interesting.

Like how would a past life affect how she handles things across Marvel. What would she think of Freyja filling in as mom for her son?

There´s definintely a lot of controversy about what Aaron has done, but I think this controversy is good. Hickman just needs to incorporate this into Jean/Phoenix.

[WallStreeter]

Maybe, Hickman wants Jean Grey to be powerful again?

When you are already powerful, there’s no real need for you to be more powerful. It makes little sense. The journey to empowerment is only spectacular if you start by being weak.

I still find this unlikely: Hickman just looks uninterested by Jean Grey.

I don´t know if he is permanently uninterested by her, but he did not want her to be one of the early architects of Krakoa. That was left for Moira, Xavier, Magneto, and Apocalypse. Even Emma as won who sells Krakoa´s medicines to the world played a much better role in the early shaping of Krakoa than Jean. Since he didn´t want her input at that time, that´s why she was in the 1970s Marvel Girl.

Notice now that is is forming a new team of X-Men with Cyclops, she has appeared in the red and yellow X-Factor Marvel Girl outfit. Portraying a different era when she´s more combat experienced. It does seem like he is ready to do more with her, now that she has left the quiet council and is co-leading a team of X-Men with Cyclops.

But I´d like to see them disagree on strategies, not make it look like they instantly agree on everything they are going to do.

[Daedra]

I think this is why some writers don´t like Jean Grey. If all her stories have to do with her being the faithful wife to Cyclops (ideal woman pre women´s movement), Xavier´s protege/student, and blowing things up as Dark Phoenix, it means many writers both male and female find her BORING.

Because there´s nothing to really write about. No adventure. Tying the Phoenix to other things across the cosmos such as Asgard make way for a lot of new stories, and yes having Jean remember Cavelady´s life and considering what kind of relationship that would give her to Odin AND other Asgardians including Thor would be interesting.

Like how would a past life affect how she handles things across Marvel. What would she think of Freyja filling in as mom for her son?

There´s definintely a lot of controversy about what Aaron has done, but I think this controversy is good. Hickman just needs to incorporate this into Jean/Phoenix.

This makes no sense, what’s the logic here? How is the action of making the pf even more convulsed somehow make Jean more interesting for hypothetical writers?
They are just producing cheap fan fiction with the pf and no one gives 2 shits about Jean grey, she’s not even a blip on the radar, talk about denial, we are about to get a new host......THE NEW PHOENIX Host IS HERE and somehow wolverine is even more involved and an expert than jean....... yup, so much interest!!!

[Rang10]

Maybe, Hickman wants Jean Grey to be powerful again?

When you are already powerful, there’s no real need for you to be more powerful. It makes little sense. The journey to empowerment is only spectacular if you start by being weak.

I still find this unlikely: Hickman just looks uninterested by Jean Grey.

Jean never stopped being powerful recently, so Hickman wanting her to be powerful again makes zero sense.
Even her personality is a bit off too.

I think this is why some writers don´t like Jean Grey. If all her stories have to do with her being the faithful wife to Cyclops (ideal woman pre women´s movement), Xavier´s protege/student, and blowing things up as Dark Phoenix, it means many writers both male and female find her BORING.

Because there´s nothing to really write about. No adventure. Tying the Phoenix to other things across the cosmos such as Asgard make way for a lot of new stories, and yes having Jean remember Cavelady´s life and considering what kind of relationship that would give her to Odin AND other Asgardians including Thor would be interesting.

Like how would a past life affect how she handles things across Marvel. What would she think of Freyja filling in as mom for her son?

There´s definintely a lot of controversy about what Aaron has done, but I think this controversy is good. Hickman just needs to incorporate this into Jean/Phoenix.

One thing is a thing and another things is another.. jean and Phoenix never had involvement with Odin before. Aaron found some plot hole and made it happen.
It still makes zero sense connect Jean to it. It's a cheap 5th grade fanfic and Odin is a not a good character that in the moment is dead. He is a misogynist, Jean doesn't need that. It will be another nosense jump the shark

[Phoenixx9]

Yeah, it just seems to be more of that spreading Marvel insanity.

[Ra-El]

Jean never stopped being powerful recently, so Hickman wanting her to be powerful again makes zero sense.
Even her personality is a bit off too.




One thing is a thing and another things is another.. jean and Phoenix never had involvement with Odin before. Aaron found some plot hole and made it happen.
It still makes zero sense connect Jean to it. It's a cheap 5th grade fanfic and Odin is a not a good character that in the moment is dead. He is a misogynist, Jean doesn't need that. It will be another nosense jump the shark

Odin wasn't a misogynist until Aaron got his hands on him, so... Guess him and the Phoenix have the same problem.

[Rang10]

She's not off the council, demoted from Omega TK, and running around in old duds to further her story. We know that much.

Cyke shippers not writing Jean Grey should be a rule lol

Odin wasn't a misogynist until Aaron got his hands on him, so... Guess him and the Phoenix have the same problem.

He was. he was against Thor and Jane relationship

[Ra-El]

He was. he was against Thor and Jane relationship

Because he was a god and she a mortal, maybe there was some of it on his character, but Odin only started calling every woman a fool, and call them "damn woman" in Aaron's run.

[Daedra]

Odin (whose chosen army is selected by female warriors called Valkyries) a misogynist ? Odin god of wisdom turned into a babbling fool?

ll.jpg

only Aaron could write this "stuff".....