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  1. #6181
    Ultimate Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    No, no characters are omnipotent.

    But if you go over to another character's thread, they sure make it sound like she most definitely is omnipotent, that she can do anything, can block anything, can harness her powers for any type of energy/electromagnetic force, as if she is all the heroes and villains wrapped up into one (and no, I do Not mean Lorna's thread). They like to talk there of how she can block TP and even Jean and how her lightning can block TK. Then those posters spill over here and slyly put down Jean. If even one of us went there and denounced some of those mentioned feats, watch out. The backlash to that poster would be severe over there from all the others.
    [Quote Originally Posted by Thor-El 10-15-2020 12:32 PM]

    "Jason Aaron should know there is already a winner of the Phoenix Force and his name is Phoenixx9."


    Like a Red Dragon, The Phoenix shall Soar in 2024!

  2. #6182
    Jean Grey Scholar Mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devaishwarya View Post
    "Some measure of protection" does not mean absolute protection.
    Sure, Jean could blast through many defenses...but in the unlikely scenario where either she or her friends were possessed, why would she do so against her friends?

    And...a writer can very well come up with a character who can give her a run for her money. Omega level or not, none of these characters are omnipotent.
    D., don’t you know?

    Jean Grey is God.


  3. #6183
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenixx9 View Post
    No, no characters are omnipotent.

    But if you go over to another character's thread, they sure make it sound like she most definitely is omnipotent, that she can do anything, can block anything, can harness her powers for any type of energy/electromagnetic force, as if she is all the heroes and villains wrapped up into one (and no, I do Not mean Lorna's thread). They like to talk there of how she can block TP and even Jean and how her lightning can block TK. Then those posters spill over here and slyly put down Jean. If even one of us went there and denounced some of those mentioned feats, watch out. The backlash to that poster would be severe over there from all the others.
    LOL. True...it can be very eye-rolling. What can I say...Head-canoning is fun and entertaining. No fan-favourite character is immune, not even Jean.
    My Summer rain. My rooftop in Japan. My quiet in the storm. *cries* Al Ewing is GOD...Praise His name! Uplift Him in song! Glorify His works!

  4. #6184
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercury View Post
    D., don’t you know?

    Jean Grey is God.

    LOL. I don't know about Jean but Miranda certainly is a Goddess. LOL
    My Summer rain. My rooftop in Japan. My quiet in the storm. *cries* Al Ewing is GOD...Praise His name! Uplift Him in song! Glorify His works!

  5. #6185
    Incredible Member Omega_DCD's Avatar
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    Besides downplaying Jean's power, another "trick" used is to (falsely) downplay her strength of will. I'm sorry, Jean's will is top-tier. For a moment, she defied death for her friend Annie as a kid...she defied her own death aboard the shuttle for even longer, despite massive physical deterioration from deadly radiation



    So don't give me this...


  6. #6186
    Jean Grey Scholar Mercury's Avatar
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    She also defied the Phoenix Force on multiple occasions, laying down her own life for the greater good. 💅

  7. #6187
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    I'm guessing that's two different writers with two different story scenarios/character focus and intent?

    One is playing up Jean.
    The other is playing up Logan. What's the problem? Not every story Jean (or Storm, or Lorna or ...) shows up in is centred around her (them). You have read these stories with a great deal of intentional context.
    My Summer rain. My rooftop in Japan. My quiet in the storm. *cries* Al Ewing is GOD...Praise His name! Uplift Him in song! Glorify His works!

  8. #6188
    Ultimate Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercury View Post
    D., don’t you know?

    Jean Grey is God.

    Were truer words EVER spoken????? [A resounding "NO"!]

    (Mercury, your pic of meme's is impeccable! Miranda Priestly for the Win, lol!)
    [Quote Originally Posted by Thor-El 10-15-2020 12:32 PM]

    "Jason Aaron should know there is already a winner of the Phoenix Force and his name is Phoenixx9."


    Like a Red Dragon, The Phoenix shall Soar in 2024!

  9. #6189
    Incredible Member Omega_DCD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devaishwarya View Post
    I'm guessing that's two different writers with two different story scenarios/character focus and intent?

    One is playing up Jean.
    The other is playing up Logan. What's the problem? Not every story Jean (or Storm, or Lorna or ...) shows up in is centred around her (them). You have read these stories with a great deal of intentional context.
    Nope, Chris Claremont for both...Classic X-Men #8 and Wolverine #125

  10. #6190
    Ultimate Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega_DCD View Post
    Besides downplaying Jean's power, another "trick" used is to (falsely) downplay her strength of will. I'm sorry, Jean's will is top-tier. For a moment, she defied death for her friend Annie as a kid...she defied her own death aboard the shuttle for even longer, despite massive physical deterioration from deadly radiation

    Great points both, that even many Jean "fans" do not know!
    [Quote Originally Posted by Thor-El 10-15-2020 12:32 PM]

    "Jason Aaron should know there is already a winner of the Phoenix Force and his name is Phoenixx9."


    Like a Red Dragon, The Phoenix shall Soar in 2024!

  11. #6191
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega_DCD View Post
    Nope, Chris Claremont for both...Classic X-Men #8 and Wolverine #125
    Which underscores my point even more.
    Writers will write their characters as they will to suit the intent and outcome of the story. Even Claremont, as shown by those two examples, understood this fundamental truth.
    My Summer rain. My rooftop in Japan. My quiet in the storm. *cries* Al Ewing is GOD...Praise His name! Uplift Him in song! Glorify His works!

  12. #6192
    Ultimate Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercury View Post
    She also defied the Phoenix Force on multiple occasions, laying down her own life for the greater good. ��
    You summed it up well: Selfless, heroic, brave as well as powerful enough to defy the PF on multiple occasions.

    To quote Xavier, "The strength of her mind is truly amazing!".
    [Quote Originally Posted by Thor-El 10-15-2020 12:32 PM]

    "Jason Aaron should know there is already a winner of the Phoenix Force and his name is Phoenixx9."


    Like a Red Dragon, The Phoenix shall Soar in 2024!

  13. #6193
    Incredible Member Starchilde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega_DCD View Post
    Besides downplaying Jean's power, another "trick" used is to (falsely) downplay her strength of will. I'm sorry, Jean's will is top-tier. For a moment, she defied death for her friend Annie as a kid...she defied her own death aboard the shuttle for even longer, despite massive physical deterioration from deadly radiation

    I love those Classic X-Men issues <3 they have so much Jean content. One of my favorites is that one when she talks deeply with Misty Knight about her confusion with the Phoenix power and is such a philosophical talk, but it also involves dolphins and it's kinda funny. I love her so much.

  14. #6194
    Incredible Member Omega_DCD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starchilde View Post
    I love those Classic X-Men issues <3 they have so much Jean content. One of my favorites is that one when she talks deeply with Misty Knight about her confusion with the Phoenix power and is such a philosophical talk, but it also involves dolphins and it's kinda funny. I love her so much.
    I love that issue too. Not for nothing, I do love how "normal" Jean tried to be (before the damn Hellfire Club started mucking around).

    Jean had normal NYC worries...a tough rental market, having to get a roommate to split cost, and hell, even the threat of eviction, lol




  15. #6195
    Jean Grey Scholar Mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starchilde View Post
    In terms of powers, I think it's purely for the plot the writer wants to tell. For example, in the last Cable issue, Jean and Esme worked together in something that Jean could easily do alone. I think the intention was to show team-work, and Jean helping Esme in an emotional moment. Sometimes it's done with respect, like Duggan did in that issue, but in other occasions it's done with a tone that seems like a joke, and to show her as "weaker". Like, "I dunno, try harder Marvel Girl", from Hickman in HoX/PoX (I do think that Hickman is not a fan of her).
    While I am reticent to assume whether certain writers are fans or detractors of certain characters unless they explicitly state so, there is some evidence indicating that Hickman may not be a fan of hers. I am referring to that tweet someone posted a screenshot of a few pages back in which he urged people to vote for Thor over Jean because he had better hair and didn't kill a billion people, or something to that effect. Then again, after replying to Hickman bitingly - which Marvel's official Twitter retweeted - Tom Taylor clarified that they were just having fun. Furthermore, in interviews, Hickman has shared his thoughts regarding Jean's role in his story ("prominent") and her telepathy that lead me to believe he is at the very least intrigued by her. However, if he's as much of a fan of Emma Frost as many say he is, I can see why he would not be keen on focusing too much on Jean or elevating her beyond a certain level. I've noticed a tendency among Emma Frost fans - not all of them, mind you - to tear Jean down in order to lift Emma up. Frankly, I see no comparison between the two in terms of power levels, depth of character, or historical impact and meaning.

    In either case, I love that Hickman wrote Jean as being the one to decide to turn down Xavier's and Magneto's offer to rejoin the Quiet Council, after which Scott followed suit, and announce the forming of the new X-Men team. Sure, it's not a power feat, but it certainly is a pivotal and standout moment. I still have a hunch that Hickman has bigger plans for Jean that he simply has chosen not to reveal yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Starchilde View Post
    In terms of development, I don't really know, my only explanation is that the office just don't have interest on her now. It baffles me that she hasn't really talked about herself in ages. Except for some bits in X-Force, there's been almost nothing personal about her. Her cosmic connections were severed, her past is not touched, she went to help the Shi'ar without even mentioning a thing about her history with them, she doesn't even talk about her family (Rachel is just there, how can they just ignore that part of their history?), the writers insist that "things happen off-panel too" but who cares about that, we want to read it.
    I wouldn't say "the office just doesn't have interest" in her now. She was brought back to life and was pretty central in quite a few books immediately preceding Hickman's run, including one bearing her name and the other in which she was a leader. She's also co-leader of the new team she was responsible for announcing. I think her role will only expand now, though I understand your trepidation.

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