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  1. #4156
    Mighty Member Grinning Soul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andreikes View Post
    I think they are empty words... Real... Only for Jean does the costume have such great value?
    It's one thing for her to wear the costume nostalgically before dying in the Phoenix Saga, another thing is for Duggan and Hickman to say that...
    Exactly. At that point, she had never had any other costume that was just hers (the first O5 uniform was a group thing), so it made sense she wanted to die as Jean Grey. But she didn't "reject" the Phoenix...

    But now? They did read X-Men: Red, right? [When she wore a new uniform after she *actually*, *unequivocally* rejected the Phoenix Force]

    Also... Marvel Woman is bad? But Invisible Woman isn't?

    And that's the reason Jean has to be called "girl"?
    Last edited by Grinning Soul; 06-14-2021 at 07:40 AM.

  2. #4157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Soul View Post
    https://aiptcomics.com/2021/06/14/x-...e-gala-week-2/

    AIPT: So, X-Fan Kat asked if now that Jean is the co-leader of the X-Men, will her codename change from Marvel Girl to Marvel Woman? This, along with Jean’s costume, is something X-Fans debate a lot. And the return of the Marvel Girl codename is an interesting choice, because I remember growing up, reading about how the Invisible Girl eventually became the Invisible Woman — probably in Wizard Magazine — and that just made sense. So in that context, it is a bit weird that Jean is going by Marvel Girl. Could you talk about this decision?

    Jordan: Oh, sure. Yeah well, first of all, I don’t think Marvel Woman sounds good.

    AIPT: I read The Infinity War trade paperback a year or two ago, and in that series, Jim Starlin refers to Jean as Marvel Woman. I think that’s the only time I’ve seen it used.

    Jordan: Yeah. Just, I don’t think it sounds great. I mean, the reason she’s called Marvel Girl is because Jean doesn’t have a lot of great codenames. She has, as far as I’m aware of, three I can think of off the top of my head. The third one was just Jean Grey. Now that’s the easiest one to probably just go back to if we were going to change it. There’s Marvel Girl, obviously, which she was for many years, and then there’s Phoenix — and she’s not Phoenix right now. So that was the deliberate choice that was made. We are not going to the Phoenix well, that’s why she’s not dressed in her Phoenix costume, obviously.

    And a secret: that’s why she’s dressed in this costume. This is the costume that she put on when she rejected the Phoenix.

    AIPT: Right.

    Jordan: So that’s what we brought her back to. Now, you’re right. The fact that she’s called Marvel Girl is interesting. I mean, Rachel has been Marvel Girl at one point, wearing a kind of similar outfit even. When we started the Dawn of X books, we were actually making a deliberate effort to try to come up with codenames for the characters who didn’t have them. It didn’t really work out. I won’t go into the whole thing, but there were efforts made to kind of go, “We’ll call this character this and we’ll call that character that,” and the one that stuck most was Jean as Marvel Girl, because, well, I think because she was Marvel Girl for so many years that people do, on some level, accept that as her name.

    But you’re right. It’s weird.

    We were talking about Weezer [before the interview]. And that just makes me think about Weezer because Rivers Cuomo is a 51-year-old man who does still sing songs to “girl” all the time. And it’s a little like, “huh.” I mean, he just means lady, but… I think calling her Marvel Woman seems unlikely. I think if we were going to change it, it would probably change either to a new name or Jean Grey, because Marvel Woman just doesn’t sound good to me.


    ---

    I can't... I just can't.
    She’s going to stay Marvel Girl for quite sometime because editorial thinks of her as either Marvel Girl or Phoenix.

    It’s probably going to be Marvel Girl until Feige has use for Phoenix/Jean in the MCU.

    There won’t be a Dark Phoenix movie as Fox has killed that off. Not necessarily a bad thing though, the Fox story let Jean live. Really, they could just recast Jean and pick off from there, more or less.

  3. #4158
    BANNED Rang10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andreikes View Post
    I think they are empty words... Real... Only for Jean does the costume have such great value?
    It's one thing for her to wear the costume nostalgically before dying in the Phoenix Saga, another thing is for Duggan and Hickman to say that...
    Empty words. This is all I got for this.
    X-men red costume could work better than the dress.
    Never got the sense that Jean is any nostalgic.
    The fact that it is never stated on comics, instead it is explained on a interview shows how poor is the writing.

    Do marvel woman is bad, but marvel girl sounds better? wTF

  4. #4159
    Beware! Daedra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rang10 View Post
    Empty words. This is all I got for this.
    X-men red costume could work better than the dress.
    Never got the sense that Jean is any nostalgic.
    The fact that it is never stated on comics, instead it is explained on a interview shows how poor is the writing.

    Do marvel woman is bad, but marvel girl sounds better? wTF
    It’s the small, diminutive & very limited narrative box they specifically designed for her of course they are more than satisfied keeping her within its boundaries.
    Ommadon: “By summoning all the dark powers I will infest the spirit of man So that he uses his science and logic to destroy himself. Greed and avarice shall prevail, and those who do not hear my words shall pay the price. I'll teach man to use his machines, I'll show him what distorted science can give birth to. I'll teach him to fly like a fairy, and I'll give him the ultimate answer to all his science can ask. And the world will be free for my magic again.”

  5. #4160
    Mighty Member MechaJeanix's Avatar
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    I am not surprised by what JDW stated in the X-Men Monday. I had already theorized that is what the Marvel Girl look was supposed to symbolize - Jean not being Phoenix and more to the point her rejection of the Phoenix. Jean was in the Marvel Girl dress when she rejected it in Phoenix Resurrection however I think the call back is specifically to the Dark Phoenix scene. Marvel Girl dress and codename is Jean's "mutant and proud" declaration.

    Seems to me that he kind of admitted the Marvel Girl codename isn't great because he said Jean has not the best codenames and has three and one is her name lol I doubt he thinks the Phoenix codename isn't great. I think once on twitter (when he first came back to the x-office) he said he liked Jean's codename as Phoenix. Unfortunately when it comes to Jean there's always been this conflict with both creators and fans.. whether she should or shouldn't be Phoenix and whether it adds or takes away from the character.

    Again we just have to learn to appreciate the MG look. The preview pics from Planet Size was a nice treat. I love seeing Jean interact with Jamie Braddock. I can't wait to see what the omega mutants are doing.

  6. #4161
    Incredible Member andreikes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rang10 View Post
    Empty words. This is all I got for this.
    X-men red costume could work better than the dress.
    Never got the sense that Jean is any nostalgic.
    The fact that it is never stated on comics, instead it is explained on a interview shows how poor is the writing.

    Do marvel woman is bad, but marvel girl sounds better? wTF
    I think it's also complicated to use the word nostalgia... Like... she was a single woman of a group... Her powers were weak... She was limited by the leader... Nostalgia must be with her being a fragile woman. Well... We'll finish the subject of the costume... As Duggan already showed on twitter, Hickman or in this interview have already made it clear. They know the fans don't like it and they still treat it badly.... Sales are not the best and they insist on fighting with the fans... Patience

    E3yXdyoXMAY-UhA.jpg

  7. #4162
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    I am not in love with the Marvel Girl look, but I am getting use to it.

    I began reading the X-Men during the 90's. I actually would have just had her go by "Jean Grey." And I likely would have had her in her 90's costume, which I do consider iconic.

    I am curious about what she is up to in that preview page. Jean interacting with new and different characters is always a treat for me.

  8. #4163
    Incredible Member starduck's Avatar
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    I just wish they'd redesign it. Also why didn't she choose the red costume she wore that right after breaking up with the Phoenix

  9. #4164
    Mighty Member MechaJeanix's Avatar
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    At first I did not like the X-Men Red costume. I did not like the colors (blue and red) but after the Marvel Girl dress fiasco I long for it but I prefer the RD version in yellow and green (even if she reminds me of a gummy bear).

    If any character needs a new design it is Jean. She just needs a new look or she should be the one character who still wears the Grant Morrison era New X-Men look. It would make Jean stand out and be distinct.

    I too am getting more used to the Marvel Girl look. I do wish it had been updated some (re: the Age of X-man look).

  10. #4165
    BANNED Rang10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andreikes View Post
    I think it's also complicated to use the word nostalgia... Like... she was a single woman of a group... Her powers were weak... She was limited by the leader... Nostalgia must be with her being a fragile woman. Well... We'll finish the subject of the costume... As Duggan already showed on twitter, Hickman or in this interview have already made it clear. They know the fans don't like it and they still treat it badly.... Sales are not the best and they insist on fighting with the fans... Patience

    E3yXdyoXMAY-UhA.jpg
    Jean was never nostalgic for that time. She was usually treated not very good because she was the only woman on the team.

    Dugan could had said this instead of trolling fans on twitter

  11. #4166
    hate cant reach you here Harpsikord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by starduck View Post
    I just wish they'd redesign it. Also why didn't she choose the red costume she wore that right after breaking up with the Phoenix
    Seems to have been Hickman's call because he wanted to make that call back to the Dark Phoenix Saga, which is what AIPT implies here and what Hickman said at the beginning of the current era. They're at least consistent.

    I agree that it needs to be redesigned. I love the way that it looks in Marvel Ultimate Alliance 3 and Marvel Future Fight. It just needs to be drawn correctly and have some textures added to it. Maybe a pair of tights to go underneath but I'm not even sure that's necessary because this is superhero comics.
    "We come into this world alone and we leave the same way. The time we spent in between - time spent alive, sharing, learning together... is all that makes life worth living." - Jean Grey

  12. #4167
    Astonishing Member Soulsword323's Avatar
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    [IMG]https://***********/aiptcomics.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/XMMp2-min.png[/IMG]

    Very intrigued with what's going on here.

    I honestly hope we don't see the Red costume again. The Dauterman version works best, but overall, the design isn't very strong IMO. I don't need to see those bedpans on her shoulders again, or looking like she's trying to cosplay as Mega Man.

  13. #4168
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    Quote Originally Posted by MechaJeanix View Post
    At first I did not like the X-Men Red costume. I did not like the colors (blue and red) but after the Marvel Girl dress fiasco I long for it but I prefer the RD version in yellow and green (even if she reminds me of a gummy bear).

    If any character needs a new design it is Jean. She just needs a new look or she should be the one character who still wears the Grant Morrison era New X-Men look. It would make Jean stand out and be distinct.

    I too am getting more used to the Marvel Girl look. I do wish it had been updated some (re: the Age of X-man look).
    I agree. At least they sometimes out her in the green and yellow version of the X-Men red costume. If they can do they should bring back the red and blue. Why does Jean always have to wear green and yellow no matter if she ha Marvel Girl or Phoenix? These are the only two code names she will ever have.

    I mean I see why she is not Phoenix now. Editorial wanted to focus on making all mutants immortal via the resurrection process (they all hatch out of eggs too), mutants much more tied to cosmic and magical issues, etc., letting all mutants teleport through Krakoa Gates, etc. past Phoenix stories often involve the Shiar freaking out or the X-Men themselves or whoever and thereÂ’s just no time when HickmanÂ’s run is shout rebooting the X-Men fir the MCU. As they further establish themselves in space and in the cosmos Hickman and White May decide to let Jean be Phoenix.

    I do think Phoenix would have sensed the hidden involvement of Moira X, and this us a story they want to keep going for awhile. Just as precogs like Destiny and Ruth would know the deal, so would the Phoenix as she has reset timelines twice. So I think this is a huge reason Jean isnÂ’t Phoenix for now. Now we have to see what happens as Mystiqye gets revenge for Joe resurrected Destiny. After her rampage perhaps Sinister brings Irene back.

  14. #4169
    Incredible Member starduck's Avatar
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    Her gala outfit would have made a great costume

  15. #4170
    BANNED Rang10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulsword323 View Post
    [IMG]https://***********/aiptcomics.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/XMMp2-min.png[/IMG]

    Very intrigued with what's going on here.

    I honestly hope we don't see the Red costume again. The Dauterman version works best, but overall, the design isn't very strong IMO. I don't need to see those bedpans on her shoulders again, or looking like she's trying to cosplay as Mega Man.
    That still is a much better look than a housewife dress


    Quote Originally Posted by Exodus View Post
    I don't know. I get what you mean when it comes to dictating a women what to wear. But let's face it, there is an EXTREMELY narrow gender-conforming idea of femininity in place when it comes to the X-books (masculinity as well of course). I'm just bored by flowy long-haired skinny women in sexy dresses. That's only one narrow aspect of femininity but it is the one that is still central in the x-books. What about bringing some female masculinity to the mix? Lorna, Jean, Rogue,...aesthetically speaking, they are all the exactly same barbie doll variation of cis-gendered femininity. I'm not dictating the hair style of a character but I would like to see some variation when it comes to the depiction of femininities in the x-books.

    I cannot not see the mini dress from the 60s as a symbol for the male gaze of its writers.

    I got the Marvel Girl action figure. it is actually hilarious that because of her minidress and heels, she is incapable to move or even stand. She is so ridiculously immobilized. lol That's not sexism to create an action figure that basically can only stand and look pretty in a dress?
    So the action figure can't be played because of the dress. This is really a big metaphor for sexism on comics and unpractical costumes

    For me is completely different Luke use a hoodie/pants as costume and then Jean use a dress. It's not even close to be comparable
    Last edited by Rang10; 06-14-2021 at 09:09 AM.

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