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  1. #8911
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starchilde View Post
    I think he is literally ignoring everything about the White Hot Room, completely, even without the Jean part lmao seems to be just a mysterious place in SWORD, unrelated to the Phoenix
    That's wrong... What they did in SWORD didn't make the WHR just a mysterious place but it made an extremely powerful and relevant place. (moreso than before) They made the WHR and the Mystery the same Place (the Above Place like Doom said). If you have read other comics that's pretty powerful because the Mystery is a Realm outside the Multiverse/Multi Eternity. Also, the WHR is the Heart of the Phoenix and the mindscape of the Phoenix. Its the Phoenix in its purest form. Only Teen Jean and White Phoenix Of the Crown Jean as the True Phoenix have been shown to manipulate the power of the WHR.

    Also the titles Elemental Cosmic Heart, Excelso Prae Omnibus Aliis,Mysterium Tremendum, The Mystery, White-Hot Room of Secret Fire given in SWORD are all for the same place the WHR. They are just different names.
    Last edited by ThePhoenix; 10-19-2021 at 12:11 AM.

  2. #8912
    Fantastic Member Starchilde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThePhoenix View Post
    That's wrong... What they did in SWORD didn't make the WHR just a mysterious place but it made an extremely powerful and relevant place. (moreso than before) They made the WHR and the Mystery the same Place (the Above Place like Doom said). If you have read other comics that's pretty powerful because the Mystery is a Realm outside the Multiverse/Multi Eternity. Also, the WHR is the Heart of the Phoenix and the mindscape of the Phoenix. Its the Phoenix in its purest form. Only Teen Jean and White Phoenix Of the Crown Jean as the True Phoenix have been shown to manipulate the power of the WHR.

    Also the titles Elemental Cosmic Heart, Excelso Prae Omnibus Aliis,Mysterium Tremendum, The Mystery, White-Hot Room of Secret Fire given in SWORD are all for the same place the WHR. They are just different names.
    Yes that's what Ewing said, they are all the same place or insinuated to be. I souldn't have used the world mysterious, as you said is more like a powerful place. But I don't think S.W.O.R.D is going to relate it to the Phoenix or dig more into that connection. I don't think is going to be touched upon anymore, it was there to explain where the mysterium came from as Ewing told in the interview. It's ok tho.

  3. #8913
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulsword323 View Post
    That's how I feel as well. As much as I enjoy Jean's pink glow when she uses her powers, the Phoenix imagery is just too synonymous with Jean at this point. Films, Cartoons, and video games all find a way to incorporate it into Jean aesthetic and storyline.

    Marvel being hellbent on giving everyone else a stab at it so they can get a cool costume is trash. Hoping one day someone can fix this mess.
    Someone will. It make take a few more people getting fired or leaving their jobs.

  4. #8914
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    The only way this "mess" can be fixed (I think it's a blessing) is if Jean recants and begs the PF to accept her back and I would rather Jean die than see her grovel and beg the PF for anything. She doesn't need the PF (not as much as some readers seem to need the PF in their lives)
    Last edited by Devaishwarya; 10-19-2021 at 10:52 AM.
    We are MUTANT...One people. One tribe. One family...Planet Arakko, FOREVER!!!

  5. #8915
    hate cant reach you here Harpsikord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devaishwarya View Post
    The only way this "mess" can be fixed (I think it's a blessing) is if Jean recants and begs the PF to accept her back and I would rather Jean die than see her grovel and beg the PF for anything. She doesn't need the PF (not as much as some readers seem to need the PF in their lives)
    There's another option.

    They can write it so that Jean is the only person who can actually control the Phoenix. With other hosts it takes control and does bad shit, but Jean can fundamentally leash it and make it so that it can't do those bad things. It wouldn't ultimately be a powerup for her because they've established Jean is either equal to or greater than the Phoenix (depending on who you ask), but it'd give her the classic Phoenix aesthetic and codename that rightfully belong to her back. Basically: Jean doesn't need the Phoenix. The Phoenix needs Jean.
    "We come into this world alone and we leave the same way. The time we spent in between - time spent alive, sharing, learning together... is all that makes life worth living." - Jean Grey

  6. #8916
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harpsikord View Post
    There's another option.

    They can write it so that Jean is the only person who can actually control the Phoenix. With other hosts it takes control and does bad shit, but Jean can fundamentally leash it and make it so that it can't do those bad things. It wouldn't ultimately be a powerup for her because they've established Jean is either equal to or greater than the Phoenix (depending on who you ask), but it'd give her the classic Phoenix aesthetic and codename that rightfully belong to her back. Basically: Jean doesn't need the Phoenix. The Phoenix needs Jean.
    X-Men forever said the Phoenix gave Jean
    The cosmic awareness to use its powers. The Jean Grey limited series said Jean Grey is unparalleled as Phoenix, as thatís why the Phoenix always comes to her. Marvel is. Lose to
    Being there, as it is.

  7. #8917
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harpsikord View Post
    There's another option.

    They can write it so that Jean is the only person who can actually control the Phoenix. With other hosts it takes control and does bad shit, but Jean can fundamentally leash it and make it so that it can't do those bad things. It wouldn't ultimately be a powerup for her because they've established Jean is either equal to or greater than the Phoenix (depending on who you ask), but it'd give her the classic Phoenix aesthetic and codename that rightfully belong to her back. Basically: Jean doesn't need the Phoenix. The Phoenix needs Jean.
    I like this and its my headcanon that Jean usurp power/control of the Phoenix whenever she wants it. Its not with her now bc thats her own choice



    Jean can do this to any Phoenix host whenever she wants and can access its power should she choose

  8. #8918
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    While it may prefer Jean, the Phoenix doesn't need Jean. At least, not according to Aaron. And I'm good with that too.
    Other than adding to her power, I just don't see it being of any value, plot-wise, going forward. What new stories can be told with Jean as Phoenix that can't be told with a Phoenix-less Jean?
    We are MUTANT...One people. One tribe. One family...Planet Arakko, FOREVER!!!

  9. #8919
    hate cant reach you here Harpsikord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devaishwarya View Post
    While it may prefer Jean, the Phoenix doesn't need Jean. At least, not according to Aaron. And I'm good with that too.
    Let me clarify: I don't mean that the Phoenix needs Jean from a narrative perspective so much as I'm saying that in order for the Phoenix to have a successful host it needs Jean. She (and maybe Rachel) is the only one that can do it.

    Other than adding to her power, I just don't see it being of any value, plot-wise, going forward. What new stories can be told with Jean as Phoenix that can't be told with a Phoenix-less Jean?
    None. I'm not trying to say that it has to effectively add anything to the narrative for Jean apart from her reclaiming her legacy as Phoenix - yet again - as much as I'm saying that Marvel is always going to ultimately go back to Jean being Phoenix. They're releasing another Phoenix omnibus next summer, and the Phoenix is always Jean in outside media other than the Future Fight adaptation of the awful Phoenix tournament arc. Jean doesn't have any looks that are more iconic than Phoenix and Phoenix is basically irrelevant unless it's Jean Grey... so my compromise is that Jean leashes and controls the Phoenix, giving Jean her most iconic appearance back and keeping Phoenix in it's most recognizable and iconic state... as Jean.
    "We come into this world alone and we leave the same way. The time we spent in between - time spent alive, sharing, learning together... is all that makes life worth living." - Jean Grey

  10. #8920
    Incredible Member DarkMagnus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starchilde View Post
    I think he is literally ignoring everything about the White Hot Room, completely, even without the Jean part lmao seems to be just a mysterious place in SWORD, unrelated to the Phoenix
    You form Chile?

    Awesome wn, Iam Form Chile tambien

  11. #8921
    Fantastic Member Starchilde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkMagnus View Post
    You form Chile?

    Awesome wn, Iam Form Chile tambien
    jajajajaja awesome weon🇨🇱🇨🇱

    Yes Iím from Chile!! Glad to see a fellow chilean X-Men fan

  12. #8922
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harpsikord View Post
    Let me clarify: I don't mean that the Phoenix needs Jean from a narrative perspective so much as I'm saying that in order for the Phoenix to have a successful host it needs Jean. She (and maybe Rachel) is the only one that can do it.



    None. I'm not trying to say that it has to effectively add anything to the narrative for Jean apart from her reclaiming her legacy as Phoenix - yet again - as much as I'm saying that Marvel is always going to ultimately go back to Jean being Phoenix. They're releasing another Phoenix omnibus next summer, and the Phoenix is always Jean in outside media other than the Future Fight adaptation of the awful Phoenix tournament arc. Jean doesn't have any looks that are more iconic than Phoenix and Phoenix is basically irrelevant unless it's Jean Grey... so my compromise is that Jean leashes and controls the Phoenix, giving Jean her most iconic appearance back and keeping Phoenix in it's most recognizable and iconic state... as Jean.
    I understand what you're saying. The Phoenix/Jean is iconic but at this time and going forward in this era and beyond, anything Phoenix as it relates to Jean seems like a poor regression for her (and for Rachel too, if I'm being honest).
    We are MUTANT...One people. One tribe. One family...Planet Arakko, FOREVER!!!

  13. #8923
    hate cant reach you here Harpsikord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devaishwarya View Post
    I understand what you're saying. The Phoenix/Jean is iconic but at this time and going forward in this era and beyond, anything Phoenix as it relates to Jean seems like a poor regression for her (and for Rachel too, if I'm being honest).
    I just don't know that I agree that it has to be. If one of them is called Phoenix but not defined by the cosmic firebird, is that a problem? I'm not suggesting that the Phoenix define all of Jean's stories if she ever becomes Phoenix again as much as I'm just saying that it's potentially the most successful option for both the Phoenix Force and Jean.

    And for what it's worth, this argument is mostly a devil's advocate thing for me. I like Jean as she is. I actually think that since teen Jean came around in 2013 to now has been arguably the best era for her.
    "We come into this world alone and we leave the same way. The time we spent in between - time spent alive, sharing, learning together... is all that makes life worth living." - Jean Grey

  14. #8924
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Is Echo going by the codename Phoenix too?

  15. #8925
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    She's going by the name "Thunderbird" apparently...which I get, her being Native American, but at the same time I don't get considering there have been two previously named Thunderbirds who were not at all connected to the Phoenix.
    We are MUTANT...One people. One tribe. One family...Planet Arakko, FOREVER!!!

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