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  1. #8926
    hate cant reach you here Harpsikord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devaishwarya View Post
    She's going by the name "Thunderbird" apparently...which I get, her being Native American, but at the same time I don't get considering there have been two previously named Thunderbirds who were not at all connected to the Phoenix.
    There's also still currently one among the X-Men.
    "We come into this world alone and we leave the same way. The time we spent in between - time spent alive, sharing, learning together... is all that makes life worth living." - Jean Grey

  2. #8927
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Thunderbird for a fire bird....LOL

  3. #8928
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    Except Firebird is already taken.

    It's all a sorry mess really. They should have just called Echo Phoenix...because that is what/who she is now.
    Last edited by Devaishwarya; 10-19-2021 at 02:27 PM.
    We are MUTANT...One people. One tribe. One family...Planet Arakko, FOREVER!!!

  4. #8929
    Fishy Member I'm a Fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devaishwarya View Post
    She's going by the name "Thunderbird" apparently...which I get, her being Native American, but at the same time I don't get considering there have been two previously named Thunderbirds who were not at all connected to the Phoenix.
    It's like they wanted to make things less confusing, but instead made it infinitely more-so...
    ~I just keep swimming through these threads~

  5. #8930
    hate cant reach you here Harpsikord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devaishwarya View Post
    Except Firebird is already taken.

    It's all a sorry mess really. They should have just called Echo Phoenix...because that is what/who she is now.
    They should just continue to call her Echo. It's her identity, and they're painting it more as she's 'a' Phoenix and not 'the' Phoenix anyway.
    "We come into this world alone and we leave the same way. The time we spent in between - time spent alive, sharing, learning together... is all that makes life worth living." - Jean Grey

  6. #8931
    Extraordinary Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devaishwarya View Post
    Except Firebird is already taken.

    It's all a sorry mess really. They should have just called Echo Phoenix...because that is what/who she is now.
    I agree it is a mess. But Echo should never have become Phoenix. In fact, that entire Aaron story arc should never have happened.
    [Quote Originally Posted by Thor-El 10-15-2020 12:32 PM]


    "Jason Aaron should know there is already a winner of the Phoenix Force and his name is Phoenixx9."

  7. #8932
    LET JEAN GREY BE FREE! Kitty&Piotr<3's Avatar
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    Further than it never should have gone to Echo; it never should have gone to Emma Frost back in Endsong. That's what really started the garbage that has since then spiraled into the trash and trash takes on characters that we have today. It really set the precedent for making the Phoenix about whatever pet character and their girlfriend you want it to be about.
    Last edited by Kitty&Piotr<3; 10-19-2021 at 02:52 PM.
    "Yes, it was a kind of adultery, but at the same time Jean wasn't being his wife anymore. I just felt that the spark between them had died out and it was time to give Scott someone else."
    -Grant Morrison on how it was Jean's fault Scott cheated.

    "Cyclops loves wilted roses because they remind him of dead redheads."
    -Gail

  8. #8933
    Fantastic Member Starchilde's Avatar
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    I don't remember Maya calling herself Thunderbird. She told Robbie to call her just Maya or Echo, and some people have been calling her Phoenix, unless I missed something.

  9. #8934
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devaishwarya View Post
    Except Firebird is already taken.

    It's all a sorry mess really. They should have just called Echo Phoenix...because that is what/who she is now.
    I dont expect her to be called Firebird. I was just pointing out the irony in a bird known for the element fire, to be called Thunderbird

  10. #8935
    Fantastic Member Starchilde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starchilde View Post
    I don't remember Maya calling herself Thunderbird. She told Robbie to call her just Maya or Echo, and some people have been calling her Phoenix, unless I missed something.
    From Avengers #45

    echo1.JPG

  11. #8936
    Fantastic Member PyroFN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starchilde View Post
    From Avengers #45

    echo1.JPG
    They weren’t saying that she was calling herself Thunderbird. She was referring to the Phoenix Force as the mythological Thunderbird the Native American’s worshipped in her tribe.


  12. #8937
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    She is the Phoenix. Coolz. (Wiki needs to get their shit together.)
    We are MUTANT...One people. One tribe. One family...Planet Arakko, FOREVER!!!

  13. #8938
    Incredible Member Omega_DCD's Avatar
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    These little continuity blind spots irk me. What does Claremont call this then...





    It's not like this was some random obscure issue like a Marvel Team-Up...the Phalanx Covenant was an X-Book line wide crossover.

  14. #8939
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    I dont get it. whats the problem?

  15. #8940
    Jean Grey Scholar Mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harpsikord View Post
    There's another option.

    They can write it so that Jean is the only person who can actually control the Phoenix. With other hosts it takes control and does bad shit, but Jean can fundamentally leash it and make it so that it can't do those bad things. It wouldn't ultimately be a powerup for her because they've established Jean is either equal to or greater than the Phoenix (depending on who you ask), but it'd give her the classic Phoenix aesthetic and codename that rightfully belong to her back. Basically: Jean doesn't need the Phoenix. The Phoenix needs Jean.
    Firstly, I am happy with where she is as a character and feel that the potential and possibilities for her future development are endless, especially if they lean into her personal history (e.g., family, education, time spent away from the X-Men, etc.) and development during her time displacement as a teenager. However, if the idea is to make Jean "cosmic" again, they should go all the way and make it a truly epic story that transcends even the Phoenix Force.

    As I've shared before, they should establish that Jean has always had a direct and mysterious connection to the One Above All - "the master and sole superior" of the Living Tribunal - and that her time bonded to and wielding the Phoenix Force was a rite-of-passage requisite to exploring her full potential and ultimate destiny. This connection could be substantiated by instances such as when she was said to have "infinite mental powers" by Computo (X-Men #48, 1968), described as "a nexus of probabilities" (X-Factor #8, 1986) and "an anomaly" (X-Factor #30, 1988) by Destiny, and able to control the White Hot Room and resurrect herself without ever having bonded with the Phoenix Force (Jean Grey #11, 2018). (Note: During the latter instance, she did take from Emma and possess a small fragment of the Phoenix Force, but she neither absorbed it nor was it enough to completely control the White Hot Room.)

    "I am the One Above All. I see through many eyes. I build with many hands. They are themselves, but they are also me. I am all-powerful. My only weapon is love. The mystery intrigues me." - One Above All, The Ultimates 2 #100 (2017)

    Perhaps the Phoenix Force, sensing Jean's intimate connection with the omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent One Above All, ensnared her in a toxic and perpetual dance that fed and sustained it more than her. In bonding with her innate power and unique connection shared by no other with the One Above All, the Phoenix Force grew enamored with her and the possibility of uniting with its Source, or Creator. Moreover, this dance was meant to test Jean's will, how she would discover and choose to use her infinite powers, and whether she would succumb to darkness and destruction, and, if so, how she would go about making reparations. Of course, in order to be effective, a story like this would have to unfold over the course of several years, but it could begin with hints dropped here and there. Eventually, she would evolve into a being akin to and even transcendent of the White Phoenix of the Crown.

    I've been jotting down notes and filing away sources for this arc just for fun, gradually fleshing it out and seeing where it could take her as a character. It would be a pretty epic cosmic story, with shades of messianism. However, as I wrote above, I'm pleased with where she is and only hope they continue to draw from her rich history to allow her to grow and evolve as a character. I'm just sharing this for fun and because I do believe if they're going to try to tie her to any cosmic force, it should be something transcendent of the Phoenix Force.

    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    I like this and its my headcanon that Jean usurp power/control of the Phoenix whenever she wants it. Its not with her now bc thats her own choice



    Jean can do this to any Phoenix host whenever she wants and can access its power should she choose
    This is another great example to add to the list above.
    Last edited by Mercury; 10-19-2021 at 09:10 PM.

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