Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2021

[PyroFN]

To be fair, Cyclops dated another redhead the second Jean died and then decided he was done with 2nd redhead the moment Jean was back. It wasn't exactly a positive relationship even before Morrison.

For once, I agree.

[PwrdOn]

This is the first time I'm hearing/reading about any of this. I need to read this stat. If you don't mind, what issues does this story take place in?.

It was in AvX 11:



Keep in mind that, at this point in the story, literally everyone except Emma has abandoned Scott and even if his idea was to unite all of the Phoenix shards, this was probably not the best way to go about it. It is also implied elsewhere that this was partially out of jealousy as Emma had been psychically banging Namor at some point in the story. This is the version of Cyclops that all of his fans kept insisting was "right" for months and years after this lame ass story hit shelves, so I guess if you just repeat something enough time it becomes true or whatever.

[PyroFN]

It was in AvX 11:



Keep in mind that, at this point in the story, literally everyone except Emma has abandoned Scott and even if his idea was to unite all of the Phoenix shards, this was probably not the best way to go about it. It is also implied elsewhere that this was partially out of jealousy as Emma had been psychically banging Namor at some point in the story. This is the version of Cyclops that all of his fans kept insisting was "right" for months and years after this lame ass story hit shelves, so I guess if you just repeat something enough time it becomes true or whatever.

That’s about as right as Jean going Dark Phoenix in Endsong. The Phoenix influence was made clear. Scott may have lasted better than the rest, but he still succumbed. Even Jean has hurt Scott as Dark Phoenix, so saying that people gloss over it as if it is worth going over just sounds silly to me.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

Dang, what'd PoweredOn do?

[Spiderfan001]

Spiderfan001, sweetie, planetary EMP is peanuts compared to a neutron star. Jean didn't fix one of those stars during the Phoenix Saga: she fixed an entire galaxy.

The real puzzling part if how Jean fans love that run so much when it ends with her death in such a stupid, nonsense fashion, in an issue where the writer uses their name instead of Alan Smithee.

Jean isnt invulnerable. An unexpected EMP powered stroke should kill her. She dying wasnt a problem; the fact that she was left dead as long as she was, however was

Pretty much, he put all of the EMP powers he was storing for the planetary stroke and she was unprepared.He's an omega level and was on kick and making a huge play as we see others say, I can believe it.

Great post, very much agreed!

Scemma was so contrived and forced...worse, Morrison attempted to bless the pairing in-universe by having Jean say stuff like "Wake up Emma, Scott needs you" and "Live Scott, live!". I've said this before, as if "Oh, well, if Jean HERSELF is cool with this, than it's all good y'all!"

Then to put a bow on the whole mess, he has them make out literally standing on her grave.

Even if Scott/Emma was going to the end result, good lord, let the story breathe and put some RESPEK on the name of Jean's relationship with Scott up to that point.

Kinda hate that last arc, the whole Jean blessing is the shilling the wesley(I think that's what it's called).This was the end of Jott, you don't or should not come back from this.

[Daedra]

This is the first time I'm hearing/reading about any of this. I need to read this stat. If you don't mind, what issues does this story take place
.

Don’t forget Uncanny X-Men vol 2 by Gillen
In issue #18 emma confesses her psychic liason with namor and serves scott a psionic steak with human blood for sauce straight from a cannibal brain.
In issue #19 scott has the greatest nerd rage ever an proceed to destroy some major world capitals, the style is typical of the cheapest disaster movies but still worth witnessing.

Ps. You may think I’m joking but I am not, this stuff really happened.

[Grinning Soul]

To be fair, Cyclops dated another redhead the second Jean died and then decided he was done with 2nd redhead the moment Jean was back. It wasn't exactly a positive relationship even before Morrison.

Are we going to leave out the fact that he was so traumatized by the experience he completely blocked any kind of grief for Jean? It's shown twice. Once, for sure, before he even meets Colleen (I'd have to check the other).

I know you hate the character but, please, don't mischaracterise his mental health state when he makes his decisions as if that wasn't an important part of the narrative for characters.

He had really blocked any type of feeling for Jean and he didn't understand why it was happening. It's not an excuse he simply tells Jean when he meets her again.

[Grinning Soul]

Pretty much, he put all of the EMP powers he was storing for the planetary stroke and she was unprepared.He's an omega level and was on kick and making a huge play as we see others say, I can believe it.

Jean was powered with the full Phoenix Force at that point. She didn't need to be prepared to survive something that does not harm the Phoenix. As Dark Phoenix she had destroyed a sun and in that same story (= Morrison's), she had been close to ours.

Look a while ago I went to the trouble of looking for the ballpark of the magnetic field of a neutron star. It's exhausting to have to constantly fact check stuff nowadays only to see people disregarding it again in a few weeks. But here we go:

"Their magnetic fields are between 10^8 and 10^15 (100 million to 1 quadrillion) times stronger than Earth's magnetic field." - from wikipedia, but you can find it in other sources, if you want.

The magnetic field of a neutron star is *orders of magnitude* stronger than of Earth. An EMP simply should have done *nothing* for the Phoenix.

[PyroFN]

Dang, what'd PoweredOn do?

It isn’t a problem in behavior kind of deal. I just think if we are gonna be fair and say Scott made a choice right then and there in AvX when he took Emma’s Phoenix piece while under the Phoenix influence and being attacked on all sides, Jean’s actions become her own decision making by the same logic, which I don’t agree with.

The whole point of attacking Scott and Emma was to take away it’s corrupting force by the Avengers and X-Men’s logic. By that point, Scott would have been deep in a battle while going under emotional duress from Xavier, which should be territory of the Phoenix diving into insanity territory and driving Scott’s decision-making. Sort of like when someone is on drugs and is violent.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

Are we going to leave out the fact that he was so traumatized by the experience he completely blocked any kind of grief for Jean? It's shown twice. Once, for sure, before he even meets Colleen (I'd have to check the other).

I know you hate the character but, please, don't mischaracterise his mental health state when he makes his decisions as if that wasn't an important part of the narrative for characters.

He had really blocked any type of feeling for Jean and he didn't understand why it was happening. It's not an excuse he simply tells Jean when he meets her again.

I didn't micharacterize his mental health state or say anything about it.

But like I said, it's not as if the ship was positive before Morrison. Whether you take or leave this notion that Cyclops had such a big sad that he couldn't feel for Jean and it caused him to find a similar-looking person immediately, the idea that the ship was maybe not exactly positive is arguable.

Morrison did us right overall. He just kinda ended things on a sadly misogynistic bit to tar an otherwise epic book. But I guess no one is perfect.

[Grinning Soul]

I didn't micharacterize his mental health state or say anything about it.

But like I said, it's not as if the ship was positive before Morrison. Whether you take or leave this notion that Cyclops had such a big sad that he couldn't feel for Jean and it caused him to find a similar-looking person immediately, the idea that the ship was maybe not exactly positive is arguable.

Morrison did us right overall. He just kinda ended things on a sadly misogynistic bit to tar an otherwise epic book. But I guess no one is perfect.

It might have not been your intention, but when you didn't mention his mental health state, it became implied that it was normal. So it makes it sound as if he acted that way under normal circumstances.

I was pointing it out that it wasn't the case. And that was *not* an interpretation: CC literally wrote it that way.

[WallStreeter]

The sad thing is that there’s so little to talk about Jean currently that people on this thread are stuck on books years or decades ago. It’s certainly not the fault of her fans.

Honestly, Morrison did her dirty by killing her off and don’t get me started on Aaron’s shitty Phoenix story with Echo. I think Jean can’t really take off as a character until she reclaims what’s rightfully hers.

I have no problem with her marriage and I am happy she decided to bring the X-Men back as heroes.

I don’t even blame editorial as they allowed X-Men Red to happen, which showed Jean as protagonist. Hickman just had to use for her, and thank god he is gone.

[Spiderfan001]

Jean was powered with the full Phoenix Force at that point. She didn't need to be prepared to survive something that does not harm the Phoenix. As Dark Phoenix she had destroyed a sun and in that same story (= Morrison's), she had been close to ours.

Look a while ago I went to the trouble of looking for the ballpark of the magnetic field of a neutron star. It's exhausting to have to constantly fact check stuff nowadays only to see people disregarding it again in a few weeks. But here we go:

"Their magnetic fields are between 10^8 and 10^15 (100 million to 1 quadrillion) times stronger than Earth's magnetic field." - from wikipedia, but you can find it in other sources, if you want.

The magnetic field of a neutron star is *orders of magnitude* stronger than of Earth. An EMP simply should have done *nothing* for the Phoenix.

Again I don't get how destroying a Sun and being close to one(this is the feat I think most reliable for that Jean's power level) mean she can take a planetary level EMP pulse unprepared.
Magneto can create wormholes as well, not to mention he is an omega level mutant on kick and storing power for a while to make this play.
He has done something similar before(unless there is context I'm missing here)

https://i.imgur.com/QH5HNiy.jpg.

His killing Jean stroke was much stronger than that

[Grinning Soul]

Again I don't get how destroying a Sun and being close to one(this is the feat I think most reliable for that Jean's power level) mean she can take a planetary level EMP pulse unprepared.
Magneto can create wormholes as well, not to mention he is an omega level mutant on kick and storing power for a while to make this play.
He has done something similar before(unless there is context I'm missing here)

https://i.imgur.com/QH5HNiy.jpg.

His killing Jean stroke was much stronger than that

Because the strength of the magnetic field of a main sequence star - like ours - is already much bigger than of a planet (2x if we consider the Sun and the Earth). If Jean could withstand that, a planetary level EMP should do nothing to her. But she did more than that: she fixed a neutron galaxy! A single neutron star's magnetic field is already 100 million to 1 quadrillion times of Earth's!

The question isn't about whether or not Magneto can create whatever omega level event. The question is if this event is harmful to the Phoenix.

[Spiderfan001]

Because the strength of the magnetic field of a main sequence star - like the sun - is already much bigger than of a planet (2x if we consider the Sun and the Earth). If Jean could withstand that, an planetary level EMP should do nothing to her. But she did more than that: she fixed a neutron galaxy! A single neutron star magnetic field is already 100 million to 1 quadrillion of Earth's!

The question isn't about whether or not Magneto can create whatever omega level event. The question is if it's harmful to the Phoenix.

But she didn't take all of it, she survived being in it.Magneto put the power to overpower the magnetic filed of earth straight into her, it was concentrated.Also got to say for the fixing thing, offense isn't defense.Just because Ororo can destroy a tank doesn't mean a bullet to the head won't do her in, Phoenix's offense can just be much more impressive than her defense.

Also the scan I posted shows him effecting and bottling phoenix at the very least, again context needed though.