Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2021

[johnnysv75]

Ah, I understand now. No worries. I agree someone could have done that to Jean. There could be something to that idea.....

I hope so. I want my X-books to make sense. And for Jean to consistently be portrayed as the powerhouse she is.

[Grinning Soul]

Just finished re-reading Bendis’s All-New X-Men, and before that I read X-Men Red for the fourth time. Jean is more fiery in All-New X-Men, but in both comics she is powerful and confident. I refuse to believe that Hickman hasn’t read these comics, or read summaries, while he did his research. He seems to have a vast knowledge of X-Men’s history and he seems to be a bit of a nerd - and we all know that comic book nerds hate inconsistencies. (I am a huge nerd myself. Obviously.)
Hickman knows how powerful and confident Jean was depicted recently, and I don’t think he would change that just because he can. There has to be a reason. In the thread ”What do you think of Hickmans X-Men so far” several people bring up the old theory that something is wrong on Krakoa. And I find myself agreeing with them. Something is wrong on Krakoa, just look at what has happened to Jean.

But how can she be powerful and confident in X-Force and not in X-Men? Well, maybe there is an explanation for that. Maybe she is more powerful and confident when she is not around Scott? Which would mean we will get a horrible Jean in upcoming issues of Duggan’s X-Men. (But she was capable in an issue of Cable, where the two of them were together.) But maybe Jean will start realizing that something is wrong with her, and we will see how that unfolds. Maybe being away from Krakoa will clear her head.

I choose to have hope. :)

I think or, at least, I hope there's something wrong with Krakoa.

The island needs 2 mutants per year, right? But because there are lots of people living there now, everyone gets a bit drained and no one has to die.

What if Krakoa, thinking they're actually being benevolent, somehow manipulates people into being happy so they'll never want to leave and no mutant has to die for the island to survive?

Krakoa has been shown as being very pro-active. It created that tower for Kurt without his asking. And the building, according to Kurt, was perfect for him. But what happens when there are conflicts about what makes two people happy?

It's also being hinted that the ressurection process doesn't bring the characters back right. I think Domino is a good example.

And, yes, Sinister might be tampering with everyone's DNA, so they don't come back quite the same when they're resurrected.

--

As for how Hickman portrays Jean... I wouldn't read too much into it. There's an issue where Scott takes Rachel and Nathan to check the new island that appeared as Krakoa approaches it. Both Rachel and Nathan act in a way that is so incompetent... I mean, instead of just flying telekinetically around the island, they find some animals to ride. I kid you not.

I think he just doesn't really care about certain details. Although I certainly think he should, he's more concerned about telling a story. It was a story about bonding and yearning to be together, so that’s what he focused on.

[Harpsikord]

Frankly Hickman has never been a writer that writes for the character; he writes for the plot. Ultimately though I don't have an issue with his voice for Jean, it's better that while he's still the man in charge he probably isn't writing the flagship - a book that people tend to read FOR the characters involved - anymore.

[Grinning Soul]

Frankly Hickman has never been a writer that writes for the character; he writes for the plot. Ultimately though I don't have an issue with his voice for Jean, it's better that while he's still the man in charge he probably isn't writing the flagship - a book that people tend to read FOR the characters involved - anymore.

I agree. Sometimes it feels like he gives more importance to the villains/antagonists backgrounds, relationships and motivations than the protagonists'. And while I appreciate trying to develop those other characters, they're not the reason I'm reading the story.

[Rang10]

I already knew That hickman would be bad for X-men and specially Jean when it was announced; Hickman only does character development for few characters. X-men is a franchise where characters are a huge part of it

A lot of people saying that characters are behaving weirdly and it must be some kinda of interference, really says a lot about it

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

Just finished re-reading Bendis’s All-New X-Men, and before that I read X-Men Red for the fourth time. Jean is more fiery in All-New X-Men, but in both comics she is powerful and confident. I refuse to believe that Hickman hasn’t read these comics, or read summaries, while he did his research. He seems to have a vast knowledge of X-Men’s history and he seems to be a bit of a nerd - and we all know that comic book nerds hate inconsistencies. (I am a huge nerd myself. Obviously.)
Hickman knows how powerful and confident Jean was depicted recently, and I don’t think he would change that just because he can. There has to be a reason. In the thread ”What do you think of Hickmans X-Men so far” several people bring up the old theory that something is wrong on Krakoa. And I find myself agreeing with them. Something is wrong on Krakoa, just look at what has happened to Jean.

But how can she be powerful and confident in X-Force and not in X-Men? Well, maybe there is an explanation for that. Maybe she is more powerful and confident when she is not around Scott? Which would mean we will get a horrible Jean in upcoming issues of Duggan’s X-Men. (But she was capable in an issue of Cable, where the two of them were together.) But maybe Jean will start realizing that something is wrong with her, and we will see how that unfolds. Maybe being away from Krakoa will clear her head.

I choose to have hope.

That's more a function of how the characters are seen than a function of the plot, I think. Writers that are into the Jean/Scott thing are the very least likely to show her as competent or powerful because she is not meant to stand out in that particular love interest role.

[Harpsikord]

That's more a function of how the characters are seen than a function of the plot, I think. Writers that are into the Jean/Scott thing are the very least likely to show her as competent or powerful because she is not meant to stand out in that particular love interest role.

You realize that the post that you're replying to contradicts this point, right? Bendis was hinting that Jean and Scott would end up together all along even if he wrote Jean having interest in Beast or Scott being interested in Laura. And then Bunn did damn well with Jean and was the one that established teen Jean and Scott together in X-Men Blue.

[Vishop]

Frankly Hickman has never been a writer that writes for the character; he writes for the plot. Ultimately though I don't have an issue with his voice for Jean, it's better that while he's still the man in charge he probably isn't writing the flagship - a book that people tend to read FOR the characters involved - anymore.

Eh, how characters interacts with the worldbuilding allures the audience more than the plot itself. Hickman has created narratives over various runs that defined character moments over the years. It is how he gained so much publicity that even Morrison with so much pothetial in his articulate ideas has failed to do that over the first years. HoX/PoX pretty much defines his potential with characters from Cyclops to even Wolverine or Nightcrawler.
On the other hand Hicks X-Men run was only about incomplete narratives within each issue that is left for other writers to patch things up. This is far beyond Hickmans potential.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

You realize that the post that you're replying to contradicts this point, right? Bendis was hinting that Jean and Scott would end up together all along even if he wrote Jean having interest in Beast or Scott being interested in Laura. And then Bunn did damn well with Jean and was the one that established teen Jean and Scott together in X-Men Blue.

I don't believe they were paired up for the bulk of those runs. And it showed lol.

[Grinning Soul]

I looked in older posts and I couldn't find if someone had shared this already. It's not accurate, but just for fun (read the credits):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLhV7OTiT4I

This reminds me of those people who say that Jean only used the Force to change clothes and then lost control. Now, that's funny!

[johnnysv75]

I think or, at least, I hope there's something wrong with Krakoa.

The island needs 2 mutants per year, right? But because there are lots of people living there now, everyone gets a bit drained and no one has to die.

What if Krakoa, thinking they're actually being benevolent, somehow manipulates people into being happy so they'll never want to leave and no mutant has to die for the island to survive?

Krakoa has been shown as being very pro-active. It created that tower for Kurt without his asking. And the building, according to Kurt, was perfect for him. But what happens when there are conflicts about what makes two people happy?

It's also being hinted that the ressurection process doesn't bring the characters back right. I think Domino is a good example.

And, yes, Sinister might be tampering with everyone's DNA, so they don't come back quite the same when they're resurrected.

--

As for how Hickman portrays Jean... I wouldn't read too much into it. There's an issue where Scott takes Rachel and Nathan to check the new island that appeared as Krakoa approaches it. Both Rachel and Nathan act in a way that is so incompetent... I mean, instead of just flying telekinetically around the island, they find some animals to ride. I kid you not.

I think he just doesn't really care about certain details. Although I certainly think he should, he's more concerned about telling a story. It was a story about bonding and yearning to be together, so that’s what he focused on.

Krakoa being pro-active does make a lot of sense! Maybe it takes more power from the omegas, and that is why Jean can’t use her powers properly sometimes - she is simply temporarily drained. And since Krakoa wants everyone to be happy, noone notices that she sometimes forgets her TK.
Yes, I am still reaching. But this makes sense storywise as well.

[Rang10]

I don't believe they were paired up for the bulk of those runs. And it showed lol.

Yeah,Teen Jean and teen Scott only got together on the last issue of x-men blue because they would go back to the past.
It REALLY showed

Eh, how characters interacts with the worldbuilding allures the audience more than the plot itself. Hickman has created narratives over various runs that defined character moments over the years. It is how he gained so much publicity that even Morrison with so much pothetial in his articulate ideas has failed to do that over the first years. HoX/PoX pretty much defines his potential with characters from Cyclops to even Wolverine or Nightcrawler.
On the other hand Hicks X-Men run was only about incomplete narratives within each issue that is left for other writers to patch things up. This is far beyond Hickmans potential.

Pretty much how i feel about his run. he is not doing a lot, looks more of a showrunner than a writer

[Phoenixx9]

Krakoa being pro-active does make a lot of sense! Maybe it takes more power from the omegas, and that is why Jean can’t use her powers properly sometimes - she is simply temporarily drained. And since Krakoa wants everyone to be happy, noone notices that she sometimes forgets her TK.
Yes, I am still reaching. But this makes sense storywise as well.

Hmmn. Makes sense to me that Krakoa would want Omega Energy. Have you noticed any other Omegas not using all their powers, like Exodus or someone else?

[johnnysv75]

Hmmn. Makes sense to me that Krakoa would want Omega Energy. Have you noticed any other Omegas not using all their powers, like Exodus or someone else?

I wish I could say yes! But maybe this explains why Iceman has been used so poorly in Marauders.

[Rang10]

I wish I could say yes! But maybe this explains why Iceman has been used so poorly in Marauders.

Maybe it is just bad writing hahah sometimes I ask if bad writing or some mistery about krakoa