Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2021

[GeneTitan]

I'd love to see the following for Jean:
1. An exploration of Jean's powers outside of the Phoenix Force. What has she learned after she denied the force? What has she learned about herself after her Krakoan resurrection? I'm still stuck on why she choked out in space in HOX during the Mother Mold mission. M was more of a badass than Jean during that mission.
2. A solid footing for Jean. Now that she's back co-leading the X-Men, can she stay in that role? I'd like to see her as a definitive co-leader and not just support for Cyclops.
3. Some badass moments. Jean's an omega and Pepe Larraz draws incredible battle scenes, emotion and action. Let's see Jean let loose and wreck some **** when it's needed.
4. I honestly enjoyed her portrayal in X-Men red. She was compassionated, determined, had a vision and was strong. I'd like more of those qualities in the forefront for Jean in X-Men.

[Rang10]

I think you have two different scenarios mixed up. Jean left the QC because of Sebastian Shaw's comments on the QC members needing to avoid danger. Something she disagreed with. QC members not being on the new X-Men team is something Scott and her decided to make a stipulation as part of the voting for the team members.

So unless Cyclops likes to cosplay as Sebastian Shaw, it wasn't his decision.

I understand having reservations about her role in the new book, but nothing is out yet. There's still a small room for hope.

I'm not mixing. Xavier calls her to be on Quiet Council again after XoS and she has a bit of hesitation, then Scott says that one of the rules is that Council members can't be x-men.
Maybe they decided together or not.

I'm waiting for like 2 years to get some direction for Jean, some false hopes meanwhile. Well who knows, At least I expect from Duggan some feats

[Havok83]

I'm not mixing. Xavier calls her to be on Quiet Council again after XoS and she has a bit of hesitation, then Scott says that one of the rules is that Council members can't be x-men.
Maybe they decided together or not.

I'm waiting for like 2 years to get some direction for Jean, some false hopes meanwhile. Well who knows, At least I expect from Duggan some feats

Again that is not what happened



Jean is the first to say no when Xavier offers her, the seat back. Jean is the one to explain why she chooses not to accept the seat; Scott doesnt speak for her. Scott says NOTHING about there being a rule that QC cant be X-men. We only learn about that in context to the vote as its mentioned that QC members are not eligible for election on the poster. I swear people hate Scott so much that they see whats on the page completely different than whats actually written

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

The cool thing about this era is that Jean isn't dead. So, when the Jean-positive writers want to give her a moment to look cool, they can. She'll likely be stale in her main book, but when someone like Donny Cates wants to have her pop up randomly and look slightly impressive, they can grab her.

It's sort of like the position Storm was in for a bit. You knew the X-books weren't going to have her with a good showing, but Ta Nehisi Coates would give her a semi-random important presence elswhere.

[Grinning Soul]

Jean is the first to say no when Xavier offers her, the seat back. Jean is the one to explain why she chooses not to accept the seat; Scott doesnt speak for her. Scott says NOTHING about there being a rule that QC cant be X-men. We only learn about that in context to the vote as its mentioned that QC members are not eligible for election on the poster. I swear people hate Scott so much that they see whats on the page completely different than whats actually written

Thanks. I was doing my best not to jump in this argument because I'm trying not to comment anything about Jean's husband. Except for jokes. Those I can't resist. :D


Edit:

I'd love to see the following for Jean:
1. An exploration of Jean's powers outside of the Phoenix Force. What has she learned after she denied the force? What has she learned about herself after her Krakoan resurrection? I'm still stuck on why she choked out in space in HOX during the Mother Mold mission. M was more of a badass than Jean during that mission.
2. A solid footing for Jean. Now that she's back co-leading the X-Men, can she stay in that role? I'd like to see her as a definitive co-leader and not just support for Cyclops.
3. Some badass moments. Jean's an omega and Pepe Larraz draws incredible battle scenes, emotion and action. Let's see Jean let loose and wreck some **** when it's needed.
4. I honestly enjoyed her portrayal in X-Men red. She was compassionated, determined, had a vision and was strong. I'd like more of those qualities in the forefront for Jean in X-Men.

I'd love to see all those things too, Gene.

[Brian B]

Thanks. I was doing my best not to jump in this argument because I'm trying not to comment anything about Jean's husband. Except for jokes. Those I can't resist.

Jean’s husband? Which one?

Oh, wait, one of them isn’t wearing a ring. Guess one of ‘em is a boytoy. Actually, after the affair and breakup, did Scott and Jean actually divorce? Was it ever confirmed or implied?

[Grinning Soul]

Jean’s husband? Which one? :D :D

Oh, wait, one of them isn’t wearing a ring. Guess one of ‘em is a boytoy. Actually, after the affair and breakup, did Scott and Jean actually divorce? Was it ever confirmed or implied?

They didn't have time to even talk about their relationship before she died. Officially, there wasn't even a break-up.

EDIT: During Bendis' run, teen Scott goes to the bank and he finds that adult Scott keeps the wedding invitation, pictures of Jean and their wedding rings there. So, one could argue the guy was, at least, hopeful? And that's all I'm saying in this matter, because I'm thinking about Losing my Religion now. "Oh no I've said too much" :P

[Brian B]

They didn't have time to even talk about their relationship before she died. Officially, there wasn't even a break-up.

EDIT: During Bendis' run, teen Scott goes to the bank and he finds that adult Scott keeps the wedding invitation, pictures of Jean and their wedding rings there. So, one could argue the guy was, at least, hopeful? And that's all I'm saying in this matter, because I'm thinking about Losing my Religion now. "Oh no I've said too much" :P

But Jean was back for the O5 from the past. That does at least imply a separation, even if he’s hanging onto some hope.

[Grinning Soul]

But Jean was back for the O5 from the past. That does at least imply a separation, even if he’s hanging onto some hope.

Sorry, I don't understand what you mean...

Adult Jean found out about the affair, adult Scott made her look into his mind to learn the truth about what happened in Hong Kong, then he leaves the mansion. He comes back right before Jean dies. She's in his arms, dying, saying stupid things and asking him to live. That's it. They never actually break up or even talk about their marriage after she finds out about the affair. They certainly didn't have time to get divorced.

This has nothing to do with their time-displaced teenage versions. I only mentioned teen Scott because he finds out that adult Scott kept all those things about adult Jean, after her death, in the bank (including a lock of her hair, which I'm assuming was the one the Red Queen stole from Logan).

[Vishop]

Again that is not what happened

Honestly, this change of direction annoys me a lot. If they are looking for another Schism, then this is simply dragging things. Not sure what exactly are they are trying to right now because Magneto is going for yet another Trial so it's just hypothetical of me to say things like this.

[Grinning Soul]

Honestly, this change of direction annoys me a lot. If they are looking for another Schism, then this is simply dragging things. Not sure what exactly are they are trying to right now because Magneto is going for yet another Trial so it's just hypothetical of me to say things like this.

Look, I'm happy they'd be doing hero-stuff again, because I'm a sucker for it.

But the premise, for me, is weird:

"The people of our nation need to feel like someone is acting on their behalf. Not deciding what's best for them -- not deciding what is and is not in their best interest -- but someone who fights for them".

So we're forming the X-Men again.

How exactly is the X-Men going to fight for the people of Krakoa? Weren't the X-Men about saving the world and a humanity that fears and hates them? What if it turns out that the people of Krakoa doesn't actually care about what happens outside their island? Will the X-Men cross their arms and watch the rest of the world burn, then?

I'd prefer if Scott and Jean had just said: "we're all for Krakoa and we'll help with whatever we can. But we care about the rest of the world as well and we'll help the rest of the world too, regardless of what The Quiet Council think is the best for Krakoa".

[Vishop]

Look, I'm happy they'd be doing hero-stuff again, because I'm a sucker for it.

But the premise, for me, is weird:

"The people of our nation need to feel like someone is acting on their behalf. Not deciding what's best for them -- not deciding what is and is not in their best interest -- but someone who fights for them".

So we're forming the X-Men again.

How exactly is the X-Men going to fight for the people of Krakoa? Weren't the X-Men about saving the world and a humanity that fears and hates them? What if it turns out that the people of Krakoa doesn't actually care about what happens outside their island? Will the X-Men cross their arms and watch the rest of the world burn, then?

I'd prefer if Scott and Jean had just said: "we're all for Krakoa and we'll help with whatever we can. But we care about the rest of the world as well and we'll help the rest of the world too, regardless of what The Quiet Council think is the best for Krakoa".

Aren't they already doing hero stuff before this relaunch under Krakoa? In a way, they did during this era despite what's been going on beneath it.
Making them separate to do hero stuff for Krakoa and the rest of the world can only mean they will clash with QC(as a group rather than individual) somehow with another Schism. Way of X seemed to me far more rationale behind its direction because Kurt is still acting under the wing. This will create conflict. Not all out war.

[Grinning Soul]

Aren't they already doing hero stuff before this relaunch under Krakoa? In a way, they did during this era despite what's been going on beneath it.
Making them separate to do hero stuff for Krakoa and the rest of the world can only mean they will clash with QC(as a group rather than individual) somehow with another Schism. Way of X seemed to me far more rationale behind its direction because Kurt is still acting under the wing. This will create conflict. Not all out war.

I think Jean and Scott wanted independence from the Quiet Council to lead their team. It's not a schism unless the Quiet Council forces their hand. Scott will continue serving as their top commander and such. But they want the team to have the freedom to decide what they'll do.

Up to that point in XoS, they were following the Council's instructions. But then they realised they wanted to do more. The Council's priority is Krakoa, but they want to act on more than that.

And that is fine for me. I just don't get the whole stance of representing the people of Krakoa.

[Vishop]

I think Jean and Scott wanted independence from the Quiet Council to lead their team. It's not a schism unless the Quiet Council forces their hand. Scott will continue serving as their top commander and such. But they want the team to have the freedom to decide what they'll do.

Up to that point in XoS, they were following the Council's instructions. But then they realised they wanted to do more. The Council's priority is Krakoa, but they want to act on more than that.

And that is fine for me. I just don't get the whole stance of representing the people of Krakoa.

I still don't see the point of declaring all-out "independent" X-Men instead of creating conflict and drama. Scott serves as the commander isn't making things look like this team will no be going against QC if they clash. Seems ineffectual and not fully fledged behind its motivation(that is X of Swords) because the X-Men were already doing more than just protecting Krakoa under their wing.
I guess I am starting to make it a bit far-fetched and it is just my opinion anyway.

[Grinning Soul]

I still don't see the point of declaring all-out "independent" X-Men instead of creating conflict and drama. Scott serves as the commander isn't making things look like this team will no be going against QC if they clash. Seems ineffectual and not fully fledged behind its motivation(that is X of Swords) because the X-Men were already doing more than just protecting Krakoa under their wing.
I guess I am starting to make it a bit far-fetched and it is just my opinion anyway.

Oh, don't worry. We're not fully disagreeing and that's because I'm not sure about what the premise of the book actually is, so I don't know where this will go. And indeed, I have no idea what happens when/if Scott's duties as captain commander clash with his duty as the leader of the X-Men.

EDIT: Crazy scenario. Let's say an alien species decides to invade Earth and they strike a deal with the Quiet Council: Krakoa doesn't interfere and the aliens don't attack the islands. Under the guidance of the QC, Scott and Jean wouldn't be able to do anything. But, because the X-Men team is independent, they will take the team and help defending the humans and their society. I *think* that's the idea... But then again: how does that make them the heroes of Krakoa's people....? I really don't know.