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  1. #9646
    Jean Grey Scholar Mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Soul View Post
    Now, let's agree to disagree. Just, please, don't accuse me of stuff because we disagree. It is effing annoying.
    I already apologized.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Soul View Post
    Jean didn't do what she did to Warren because of her impulsivity. That would be an in-character mistake that I could understand under the circumstances.

    But she acted in cold blood. She didn't seem to immediately realize what she did. She didn't seem to change her behaviour *after* it was pointed out to her - repeatedly - how wrong that is.

    And *that* is why it's OOC for her.
    Again, you are disregarding her own emotional implosion. It is undeniable that she was under emotional stress. In fact, two issues before she did what she did to Warren, she had to contend with this, absorb and process it alone.







    I'm sorry she wasn't sad and nice, sweet and contrite.

  2. #9647
    Mighty Member Grinning Soul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercury View Post
    I already apologized.
    Sorry about the bad timing.

    I wrote that post before I read your apology. It's annoying, but it happens, unfortunately.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mercury View Post
    Again, you are disregarding her own emotional implosion. It is undeniable that she was under emotional stress. In fact, two issues before she did what she did to Warren, she had to contend with this, absorb and process it alone.
    I'm not disregarding it. I even mentioned that if she had acted on her impulsivity, it would have been an in-character mistake given the circumstances.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mercury View Post






    I'm sorry she wasn't sad and nice, sweet and contrite.
    Why would you say you're sorry unless you assume I'd want something like that to have happened?

  3. #9648
    Jean Grey Scholar Mercury's Avatar
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    More context.




  4. #9649
    Mighty Member Grinning Soul's Avatar
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    Mercury, you don't need to convince me she was under a lot of stress. I've never contested it...

  5. #9650
    Jean Grey Scholar Mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Soul View Post
    Mercury, you don't need to convince me she was under a lot of stress. I've never contested it...
    I'm not trying to convince you. I've posted those pages for others who haven't read Bendis' run and who may get the wrong ideas...

    You did accuse her of doing what she did to Warren "in cold blood." I'm sorry, but I don't think it's that simple or, for that matter, all that "cold."
    Last edited by Mercury; 11-24-2021 at 04:18 AM.

  6. #9651
    Mighty Member Grinning Soul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercury View Post
    I'm not trying to convince you. I've posted those pages for others who haven't read Bendis' run and who may get the wrong ideas...

    You did accuse her of doing what she did to Warren "in cold blood." I'm sorry, but I don't think it's that simple or, for that matter, was all that "cold."
    Because that's how the scene was written. Does it seem to you like it's something she did that before she could think better and immediately regretted?

    Let me try to point you out to a scene in which Charles does exactly that: he abuses his power in an impulse, but he knows it's wrong.

    Just to compare and contrast. Give a moment, please.

  7. #9652
    Jean Grey Scholar Mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Soul View Post
    Because that's how the scene was written. Does it seem to you like it's something she did that before she could think better and immediately regretted?

    Let me try to point you out to a scene in which Charles does exactly that: he abuses his power in an impulse, but he knows it's wrong.

    Just to compare and contrast. Give a moment, please.
    I'm sorry, but Charles wasn't flooded with multiple decades of traumatic memories at the age of 15.

  8. #9653
    Mighty Member Grinning Soul's Avatar
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    Uncanny X-Men #309. That's a telepath being emotional and abusing their power as consequence.

    *That* is something I could totally see teen Jean, being emotional and inexperienced, doing. Heck, even adult Jean under some circumstances. But the O5 scene was not written that way.

    And after, when people kept pointing out she was abusing her power, she keeps doing it.

  9. #9654
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Soul View Post
    It was a selfish act exactly because Warren didn't want to stay and he was *clearly* having an emotional breakdown because of it.

    Did it give her any pause to even consider if they should stay when one of their friends is going through it? Nope. She just telepathically erased it.

    That is *not* Jean Grey.
    I agree with you in this one. Teen Jean was totally OOC she wasn't the Jean we were used to

  10. #9655
    Mighty Member Grinning Soul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercury View Post
    I'm sorry, but Charles wasn't flooded with multiple decades of traumatic memories at the age of 15.
    No, he wasn't. And I think it's human that he made a mistake. I'm not judging him or trying to throw him under the bus.

    You see? I don't *want* characters to be perfect.

  11. #9656
    Mighty Member Grinning Soul's Avatar
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    Anyway, guys. Thanks for the messages. I do appreciate the content and the time you guys spent on it.

    But I'm done here. Really. Logging off.

    Have fun. o/

  12. #9657
    Ultimate Member Gray Lensman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Soul View Post
    Because that's how the scene was written. Does it seem to you like it's something she did that before she could think better and immediately regretted?

    Let me try to point you out to a scene in which Charles does exactly that: he abuses his power in an impulse, but he knows it's wrong.

    Just to compare and contrast. Give a moment, please.
    I will say that in the scene in question Jean isn't so much cold as she is desperate. She has just learned everything that will go wrong in her life, and learn that the person who she thought could be an anchor isn't what she thought he was - and from the most biased source in the entire Marvel Universe. The only thoughts she is having at that time is basically "no matter what, don't let the future turn out this way". It's wrong, but also understandable given the moment.

    Xavier, as a contrast, seems to do similar things and then try to justify then even years later depsite having blown up in his face and cost some people their lives.

    So....even at her worst, Jean is more capable of learning than Charles at his baseline. If they ever restart the school, Jean better take over running the place.
    Dark does not mean deep.

  13. #9658
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dam View Post
    I agree with you in this one. Teen Jean was totally OOC she wasn't the Jean we were used to
    Isn't that the point? She isn't the older Jean we all know and love, therefore cannot really be considered OOC.

  14. #9659
    Jean Grey Scholar Mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Soul View Post
    Anyway, guys. Thanks for the messages. I do appreciate the content and the time you guys spent on it.

    But I'm done here. Really. Logging off.

    Have fun. o/
    That you for engaging with me in this discussion. Even when we disagree, which we have done often, I always appreciate your point of view and contributions to this thread. I understand where you are coming from and empathize with your point of view.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Lensman View Post
    I will say that in the scene in question Jean isn't so much cold as she is desperate. She has just learned everything that will go wrong in her life, and learn that the person who she thought could be an anchor isn't what she thought he was - and from the most biased source in the entire Marvel Universe. The only thoughts she is having at that time is basically "no matter what, don't let the future turn out this way". It's wrong, but also understandable given the moment.

    Xavier, as a contrast, seems to do similar things and then try to justify then even years later depsite having blown up in his face and cost some people their lives.

    So....even at her worst, Jean is more capable of learning than Charles at his baseline. If they ever restart the school, Jean better take over running the place.
    All of this.

  15. #9660
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Lensman View Post
    I will say that in the scene in question Jean isn't so much cold as she is desperate. She has just learned everything that will go wrong in her life, and learn that the person who she thought could be an anchor isn't what she thought he was - and from the most biased source in the entire Marvel Universe. The only thoughts she is having at that time is basically "no matter what, don't let the future turn out this way". It's wrong, but also understandable given the moment.

    Xavier, as a contrast, seems to do similar things and then try to justify then even years later depsite having blown up in his face and cost some people their lives.

    So....even at her worst, Jean is more capable of learning than Charles at his baseline. If they ever restart the school, Jean better take over running the place.
    I think the memory dump radicalized her leading her to stuff all her emotions inside her(hence why she may come of as cold) to get any sense of control over her life(because she was scared out of her mind and desperate)

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