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  1. #4756
    Astonishing Member Grinning Soul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MechaJeanix View Post
    I agree the Cable preview looks good. I think Duggan does great with Jean's voice and I am excited for this issue and Duggan's X-men book. I love seeing Jean use her tk in everyday tasks. I do hope we get to see Jean help take down Stryfe or whatever is going on in this book. I admit I haven't been following it too closely.

    I would miss Kid Cable if he goes away but I do miss the older version of Cable. Cable is one of those time lost characters I actually can stand (same with Bishop and Rachel).

    Edit: to say I'm also a pineapple lover. I had a pineapple milkshake the other day and it was glorious. Ok back to X-men lol
    Yeah. I think I should go hunt a crow for when X-Men#1 drops. Maybe I'll eat it with pineapple! :D

  2. #4757
    hate cant reach you here Harpsikord's Avatar
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    Jean at least appears in X-Factor #10. Messina posted this on Twitter:

    "We come into this world alone and we leave the same way. The time we spent in between - time spent alive, sharing, learning together... is all that makes life worth living." - Jean Grey

  3. #4758
    Astonishing Member Grinning Soul's Avatar
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    Interesting... I'm kinda confused about when this happens. It seems it's before the "fireworks". So whatever it was that made Jean look so shocked, she just shrugged it off?

    (Also, Scott looks like his teen version, doesn't he?)

    Thanks for sharing!

  4. #4759
    Ultimate Member Wiccan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harpsikord View Post
    Jean at least appears in X-Factor #10. Messina posted this on Twitter:

    Wonder why she's the only one looking really shocked? Can't think of anyone particularly close to her dying, so I guess it's just an artist choice...

  5. #4760
    Astonishing Member Grinning Soul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiccan View Post
    Wonder why she's the only one looking really shocked? Can't think of anyone particularly close to her dying, so I guess it's just an artist choice...
    Scott looks shocked too. It's just... he's Scott. Not the most expressive guy on Earth.

    The other characters well... they're not really shock-able, are they?

  6. #4761
    Ph.D. in Dudeism GMikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Askani's Flame View Post
    I actually think both Giraud and Malibu Comics getting the Phoenix was one of the worst things as that truly began the ever shifting narrative of non-mutants getting the PF. Then AvX started the transition from the X-Men to the Avengers line with the final X Farewell being the Resurrection event for Jean.
    I really dont see your point there. due to my workload (both work related and project related) i only was able to skim thru GOTG with Phoenix of the 31st century and I found it exciting, interesting and a breath of fresh air for the Phoenix as a concept.

    one thing my boss has said is with the Phoenix being a primordial force representing "all life" and all psychic energy it stands to reason that other people would have tapped into its power. had the Phoenix remained only as Jean's psychic manifestation and NOT a cosmic force then passing it around may not be a good idea (yet the mantle of Captain America, Falcon, Thor, Hulk, Loki, Iron Man, Captain Marvel, and many others were passed to other characters without much problem).

    I think Giraud just opens a different perspective for what makes a host for Phoenix. The writers saw fit for this character to be, and I'm glad they did. It gives someone like me a character to identify with AS Phoenix.

  7. #4762
    Ph.D. in Dudeism GMikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenixx9 View Post
    Really? Wow...... Well I don't.

    And as a matter of fact, Giraud was stated to be a mutant or a latent mutant.

    "Jason Aaron should know there is already a winner of the Phoenix Force and his name is Phoenixx9."
    as I said, I felt Giraud shed's light on how much more on the Phoenix's lore and what makes a host.

    I should share the promotional image of Giraud, EVERYONE, including Marvel's official fanclub loved it, and is excited for what it means

  8. #4763
    Ultimate Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMikey View Post
    as I said, I felt Giraud shed's light on how much more on the Phoenix's lore and what makes a host.

    I should share the promotional image of Giraud, EVERYONE, including Marvel's official fanclub loved it, and is excited for what it means
    I would love to see the promotional image of Giraud!

    I am Thrilled that Marvel's Official Fanclub Loved it!! I love the idea and seeing Giraud AS Phoenix!!

    Next to Jean Grey, I see Giraud as Phoenix as the best thing ever done.
    Last edited by Phoenixx9; 06-26-2021 at 06:06 AM.
    [Quote Originally Posted by Thor-El 10-15-2020 12:32 PM]

    "Jason Aaron should know there is already a winner of the Phoenix Force and his name is Phoenixx9."


    Like a Red Dragon, The Phoenix shall Soar in 2024!

  9. #4764
    Ph.D. in Dudeism GMikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Soul View Post
    Phoenix only dominates Jean Grey when the writers share the opinion that there’s nothing about Jean Grey other than the Phoenix and they don’t try to move her out of that shelf.

    But that’s not true for most of the decades of stories with Jean. At all.

    Jean went to university, started her enterprise to help mutants, adjusted the original plan, rescued them, taught mutant teenagers and children, improved mutant-human relationship, got married, raised a child under horrible conditions, helped heroes from other teams including with personal trauma (Jessica Jones), addressed diplomats and politicians, led teams, acted as the headmistress of the school, reached out to other heroes who didn’t hesitate to help her, tried to unite the world - NONE of that was related to the Phoenix.

    Not bad for 30+ years old woman, right? (Counting the 12 years raising Nathan in the future).

    The thing is the Phoenix was one of the few stories (until recently) where everything revolved around Jean and not many X-Men have that. So it creates this illusion that Jean is all about the Phoenix.

    She’s not.
    not everyone has read the comics, and many MANY fans were fans due to animated series, TV and movies.

    it doesnt matter IF there were comics that did more with Jean, many never got to see that and the point my boss is making is that, the Phoenix DOES dominate Jean too much looking from the outside, and so my boss wants to simply explore more with her character so more non-comic Marvel fans can see other sides of her.


    Mistakes are good. I don’t blame characters for making them, especially if they are due to a moment’s reaction. Like I said, Jean is not perfect. She is capable of being judgemental at times. She’s also capable of self-reflection and admitting she’s wrong.

    On that, I have no objections, even though I know her haters will keep bringing this up.

    Seriously, it’s hilarious: the same people who accuse Jean of being perfect want to crucify her every time she makes a mistake or acts in a way that isn’t admirable!

    i feel Marvel's overall media constructs the misconceptions with Jean's character (whether her being too perfect or Phoenix being the only thing to her) and it stirs the wrong kind of image for those who are non-comic fans (and EVEN some comic fans I've spoken with)

    my boss said growing up she viscerally hated Jean grey in the 90's X-Men, for very valid reasons. That's the writers' fault. my boss is a GIRL and she hated one of the most prominent female X-men heroes over the writer's not delivering on the character well. Even in other series I feel... she's only built up to become phoenix and that's pretty much it. Evolution tried doing more with her character, but the series overal wasn't my cup of tea.

    the commendable thing she's said is "I want to like Jean Grey, and i want her to be a character of greater depth than everything i've ever seen of this character. I also want to challenge certain opinions of die hard fans to her character and to the Phoenix, but also offer to non-believers a reason to give Jean a second chance and see this character as relatable, awesome and not just the OP cosmic princess she's perceived to be... it would change the mind of "haters" (like she was) and at the very least they can start appreciating her".


    Do you know what I think could make Jean more “relatable” without having to change or add anything about her personality?

    Just let her talk to a friend.

    Jean is very clever and intuitive when it comes to helping other people deal with their emotions, but her own emotions are very strong and often very entangled with other strong emotions. And she's too close to them to identify the problem (like I said, she has a complex personality with traits that are often paradoxical, but make sense to who she is). She really benefits from talking to more rational characters like Ororo or Scott (since Xavier won’t be available). And just by having the characters talking would show us that she is fragile like any of us.

    It doesn’t need to be necessarily about self-doubts. It can just be about grieving, about feeling tired, about wondering if she’s doing enough, about questioning if her tendency to always put everyone before herself/self-sacrificing is the best way in which she can actually help other people… You know, just human stuff that she certainly feels.
    What my boss has written contains plenty of that, but with more dimension.

    jean is VERY compassionate and always looks to solve problems. with the series starting them off as kids, Jean is Xavier's top student and someone everyone gravitates to bc of how well she can speak with anyone on their level, and is capable of penetrating a person's emotions, thoughts, or other mental conflicts and can decipher best means of resolution. She IS sometimes troubled by the things she discovers (like this vers of Scott) and in this story, she grew up kinda sheltered and being exposed to the real world is something that hits her hard from time to time.

    However the added dimension is the "focus X-Man", who serves as her opposite. bc this person refuses to "let her in" for reasons personal and unknown, it stirs frustration in her. added that she has severe trust issues with said person, and without her realizing, brings out certain vices that my boss states reflects that sense of "self-righteousness" and "judgement" that even the kindest of ppl would be unaware of.

    another added problem is "the focus X-Man" DOES seem to allow only a couple others more into their space, one being Thunderbird, who seems to understand this X-man so much, and always sways circumstances to "protect" said comrade. that also adds to the tension as Jean cant see how someone as seemingly cold and matter of fact as Thunderbird is "allowed in" but someone as "warm, understanding and compassionate" as her, is "kept out". this would spiral into various troubles and issues narrative wise that earns a different kind of self reflection and visible growth for the character.

    Its an interesting interaction my boss says happens frequently in real life, and would be a great type of lesson in narrative format. non-comic fans dont get to see this visually and pointing to comic references don't always cut it. this would be

    Super confident characters often come across as non-relatable. And, especially if Jean will be a in a position of leadership, it will be *really* good to have some panels here and there showing her that it is a burden and it affects her and she has no trouble asking for help from her close friends, because that makes her a better leader.

    Speaking of that, as a leader Jean should be very inclusive, very interested in other people's opinions. Ultimately, the decision should be hers, but being able to adjust and improve (or even completely discard) her original plans based on the feedback of her team should be one of her strengths.

    Lastly: sure, feel free to write me a DM whenever you want. But I’m certain other fans can also give you some input here.
    Jean wouldnt be wholly confident and if anything develops confidence in becoming the X-Men's leader. the death of one of the X-Men causes everything just about to fall apart so shes the only with means to rope everyone in, recruit new members and get the gang back on their feet, esp as times grow darker and more dismal.

    so definitely she'd be open to suggestions, allowing others to help her see what she cant see, all the like. it would also be a great time to see Jean grey as herself without the dominance of the Phoenix, so good time for development

    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Soul View Post

    Balance is always good, but honestly I don’t think a writer can afford to worry to much about what will be popular. It’s about getting the ego out of the way and writing what is best for the story. And that is already super challenging.

    You see, I can appreciate a story even if it’s not written under my favourite tone. If the plot is good and, more importantly, if the characters are compelling, I’ll like it.

    I know this is personal, but with compelling characters I can forgive a lot of plot holes and other problems in the narrative.

    Writing character that already exists, though, adds a layer of complexity. They need to be compelling, but at the same time true to what they are. On that, the MCU has done a much better job than the Fox X-Men films.

    All right. Maybe you can think about a topic and ask the fans here. Then we can focus the discussion and be more productive. Something like: “how do you guys think Jean relates to…?”

    I’m sure a lot of people will disagree (comic book writers are often contradict each other and we tend to remember the stories that resonated better with us), but we can try to refer to certain stories that support our views and it might be more helpful.
    that's what the whole idea is, its to allow for a compelling story to evolve from fan feedback and utilizing unique and different ideas.

    the tone will shift from time to time, but I feel each writer and contributor has brought vivid ideas to the table, however the reason i'm in the forum is to SIMPLY get more insight from the outside. The plot will be made available for ARC I, and I will release it for discussion as soon as it becomes available.

    perhaps creating topics could be more useful and prolly should label it by the character so it would see better attention.

  10. #4765
    Ph.D. in Dudeism GMikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian B View Post
    I’m going to go Google this, stat! What blog or site is this on, here at CBR?
    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Soul View Post
    Two things:

    1) I don't know when the story GMikey's boss is writing is set. I don't know if it has anything to do with Krakoa. It doesn't seem to be.
    2) Regarding Krakoa, have you listened to the interview Si Spurrier gave recently? There are spoilers there that I've been very cautious not to bring up. But we should consider...
    yes so... to give an idea of what this story does, and how fans help to shape it...

    The first arcs, ARC I - III? take place at an average time period, but prolly around early 2010s. Everyone starts of as kids (bc long story, originally this would BE a kiddie thing and it evolved into something for mature audiences) The Avengers are the first focus and lay the foundation of the plot. ARC II gets into the X-Men I believe, and eventually the narrative leads into "The Phoenix Trilogy", then into a time skip where everyone are adults and continues as adults.

    I've not read Krakoa but others have mentioned it for it to possibly be covered during the ARCs after "The Phoenix Trilogy".

  11. #4766
    Astonishing Member Grinning Soul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMikey View Post
    yes so... to give an idea of what this story does, and how fans help to shape it...

    The first arcs, ARC I - III? take place at an average time period, but prolly around early 2010s. Everyone starts of as kids (bc long story, originally this would BE a kiddie thing and it evolved into something for mature audiences) The Avengers are the first focus and lay the foundation of the plot. ARC II gets into the X-Men I believe, and eventually the narrative leads into "The Phoenix Trilogy", then into a time skip where everyone are adults and continues as adults.

    I've not read Krakoa but others have mentioned it for it to possibly be covered during the ARCs after "The Phoenix Trilogy".
    Sorry, I won't have time to reply to the longer message now (I'll probably only be able to do it tomorrow), but it would be useful to know one thing already: is this story supposed to be set in 616 continuity? Because if it isn't, your boss has so much more freedom and 616 can work as some inspiration only.

    I've watched the cartoons and read some of the AUs, but I'm mainly a 616 reader. And 616 Jean Grey is the Jean Grey I think about when I hear the name of the character. So it'd be really helpful for us if we could tell how to frame our feedback, you know? If it's not something you can say, of course, forget I asked. :)

    EDIT: Also, I'd suggest to ask in the specific appreciation threads when you have a question related to the character. If you post a general thread, you'll have lots of trash comments from haters to sort through and fans might decide to address those comments instead of you question. It'll be basically a waste of your time.
    Last edited by Grinning Soul; 06-26-2021 at 06:52 AM.

  12. #4767
    Ultimate Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMikey View Post
    yes so... to give an idea of what this story does, and how fans help to shape it...

    The first arcs, ARC I - III? take place at an average time period, but prolly around early 2010s. Everyone starts of as kids (bc long story, originally this would BE a kiddie thing and it evolved into something for mature audiences) The Avengers are the first focus and lay the foundation of the plot. ARC II gets into the X-Men I believe, and eventually the narrative leads into "The Phoenix Trilogy", then into a time skip where everyone are adults and continues as adults.

    I've not read Krakoa but others have mentioned it for it to possibly be covered during the ARCs after "The Phoenix Trilogy".
    This all sounds so FRESH, EXCITING and CREATIVE!!

    Whether or not Krakoa is involved or a Jean of 616, why not be a "Positive Polly" and wish it great success? I do!
    Last edited by Phoenixx9; 06-26-2021 at 06:58 AM.
    [Quote Originally Posted by Thor-El 10-15-2020 12:32 PM]

    "Jason Aaron should know there is already a winner of the Phoenix Force and his name is Phoenixx9."


    Like a Red Dragon, The Phoenix shall Soar in 2024!

  13. #4768
    Astonishing Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Soul View Post
    Unrealistic and ridiculously biased. But it works to convince most readers who donÂ’t think about the stories they’re reading and instead just accept whatever is presented to them.
    I think this is part of the bigger mystery being developed, from his first interview Hickman said fans would fight over the perception of the X-men so imo even the most problematic aspects of the run are part of the story, I just hope this leaves the X-men in a good place at the end but I would be lying if I didn´t say I prefer wholesome moments between the characters than horror and drama.

    Let’s hope so.
    Onslaught Revelation will be out on September and it seems to be conected to SWORD and Trial of Magneto so that´s good, I guess we will find more about what´s going on on Charles mind during this run.


    Except mutants have Moira on their side. They know they had a colony on Mars before and it didnÂ’t stop Orchis, so they know this flex didnÂ’t serve as intimidating tactics then. Therefore intimidation was not what motivated them now. For people who were already on the fence because of what mutants were doing or saying? Yeah, renaming Mars, taking it for themselves (determining where people can land and the laws of the place means exactly that = it belongs to mutants now), terraforming it, calling it the capital of Sol and announcing a regent for the system? You do realise this puts Earth under MarsÂ’ rule, right? Or at least thatÂ’s what theyÂ’re saying it does. Of course people from Earth will not accept that. Or course theyÂ’ll prepare for war in case war comes and of course theyÂ’ll be willing to support a horrible organisation that has been fighting mutants and warning humanity about them.
    Yes it looks like I understimated Brand, she doesn´t want to control Earth, she wants to take over the universe and Mags is a terrible enabler, helping her get a new, habitable planet as a power center with Storm as the leader someone needs to stop them

    But seriously speaking, this looks like Brand is using Krakoa´s resources to attend a galactic need that earth leaders were not aware of or even cared enough to put energy or attention to it, even if it was going to turn on their home sooner or later and still this doesn´t put Earth under Mars rule, Mars is under mutant rule and SWORD found a way to make the galactic powers in the galaxy to recognize it as part of them, this doesn´t affect earth directly because they still have their own institutions and rule but mutants are taking care of matters no one of earth knew of or were interested in getting into. It´s an ambigious line, because Krakoa is not interested in ruling earth yet the powers that be at earth will react badly, not because the X-men are taking over earth but because they can´t have another factor to reduce their influence, still this is not a justification to join a genocidal organization that seeks to kill off an entire group of people. They could do so but then they must be honest with the reasons why they are doing it and it´s not the well being of humanity or the freedom of earth.


    I don’t know what she meant to do, but the creation of Krakoa is what triggered the Orchis protocols in the first place, so she certainly isn’t trying to prevent the conflict. Therefore, I don’t know why she wouldn’t be up to speeding it up so mutants can fight against humans before humans gain the technological advancements that allows them to keep winning.
    Orchis already existed in it´s previous form of Traks indrustries and all those anti-mutant groups, they are fighting an old war on a bigger level, the librarian showed Moira how the war itself was a way to give them time to develop sentinel tecnology until they became part sentinel, what they didn´t know was that all this would end in making them particulary able to be absorbed by the Phalanx give all of humanity a truly sad end, with the Shiár having to stop in before the Phalanx could extend their influence to other systems.

    Moira mission, as far as we know, is to stop the phalanx, for this reason she needs to stop the advance of sentinel tecnology and to stop it, she needs to put the mutant - human war on hold as far as she can, Krakoa is the means to that end because if she gives the mutants and out and even a place on the wider universe, the most neutral members of humanity would see it with good eyes and may even be ready to work with Krakoa while the extremist ones who always saw mutants as bad will be kept contained by the unity of mutants. This is the plan so far. It´s a good one but crisis will come anyway because this is comics.


    I really doubt this will happen while Magneto, Charles and Moira are steering Krakoa’s path. But we’ll have to see.
    Well, you will. I’ll probably have stopped before we get there.
    It´s fine, I will leave a message if something interesting happens with Jean over the X-men issues
    Last edited by Lucyinthesky; 06-26-2021 at 12:55 PM.
    "To the X-men then, who don´t die the old fashioned way and no matter how hard we try, none of us die forever" Uncanny X-Men #270, Jean and Ororo

    Magneto: The master of magnetism Appreciation 2022
    Polaris: The Mistress of Magnetism Appreciation 2022
    House of M Appreciation 2022

  14. #4769
    Astonishing Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Soul View Post
    Sue asked Scott and he didn’t say “No”. He was looking for words because he didn’t have them, because he knew his position - what he had just said - meant exactly that.This is how the dialogue goes:
    - Scott: I assure you, we don't know where your children are. I know your meeting went... poorly... and I understand Charles and Erik can be a little intense but they're not kidnappers.
    - Reed: I know they're not, Cyclops. But their agenda is clear -- your agenda is clear. Krakoa is for all mutants, and you want them all to join you. Franklin wanted to go, and I have no doubt you'd let him, despite our wishes as parents because we're human.
    - Scott: Reed, we respect you and everything your team has done for the world of humans and mutants, so believe me when I say your children are not here. And to be perfectly clear Krakoa is Franklin's birthright, but not Valeria's. We're not an island of runaway humans.
    - Sue: One's better than the other, is that it?
    - Scott: Um-- Sue?
    - Sue: Of my children. You value the life of Franklin over Valeria. My genius daughter wouldn't be allowed in your paradise compound because she's not pure enough for you. Not mutant. You value her life less. All your actions make that perfectly clear. So, tell me, Scott why should we believe you?
    - Scott: I'm not-- Sue, you do not want to--

    Yeah, he just babbles because he doesn't want to lie and say she's wrong. Because he knows she's not wrong. Because they would indeed let Franklin go to Krakoa despite what his parents wanted. Because Valeria would indeed not be welcomed there because of her genes. Because the second they learnt Franklin wasn't a mutant, they rescinded the invitation.

    Do I want to see Scott in this position ever again? Hell no.
    Krakoa allows humans who are friends, family or guests so this whole discourse was just the writer, who I actually liked in other titles, creating artificial drama to push the confrontation between the FF4 and the X-men, otherwise we would just have a solo issue in which Franklin is given the invitation, he decides to go, his family go with him and they enter Krakoa together, not the best way to develop a crossover. I particulary hated how they wrote the X-men in this as probable kidnappers when they were the ones to take care of Franklin after the whole Onslaught saga and once the FF4 were back they reunited him with his family.


    It was a mess. But the X-Men were the Avengers in this particular AvX.
    I would say both, the X-men were acting like jerks when they could have just send an invitation and the FF4 decided to infiltrate Krakoa just because Susan could not believe her beloved angels could do something as rash as going on their own to a strange place, it was like she has never meet her children. It got a little better at the end but this type of OC behavoir is the reason you don´t see a lot of writers referencing this event.

    That part only came about after they were being chased. When Jean first addressed the UN, she said:

    - Jean: With respect to the ambassador from the United Kingdom, if you're treating us as one group, then we need to speak as one group. And every time mutants have come together to live in one place -- Genosha, Utopia -- we have simply made ourselves a bigger target. Whevener mutantkind has tried to live alone, apart, we have been slaughtered.

    So, based on the fact that Jean seems to see the problem of isolation clearly, I really don't think she envisioned mutants living alone and apart yet again. That was definitely *not* her plan.

    That part of living underseas only came about after they were being chased. It was a temporary sanctuary, not the end goal. It only became needed because, as Jean puts it in the same issue where Namor helps her establishing this sanctuary:

    - Jean: Out there, someone is deliberately stoking hatred and violence against mutants. They want a world where our race is wiped out. But they have no idea what they're facing (...) We're going to face opposition. Some people will try to tear us down. But we are X-Men. We know there's a better way. And we are going to change the world. Our new mutant nation starts here.

    It starts there but itÂ’s not going to stay there. That was just the HQ of the resistance so to speak. But once Cassandra was defeated, Jean actually invited her to join her plan and then she goes back to the UN and talks again about unity between mutants and humans.

    It is *very* different than Genosha and Utopia because in its very proposal, she doesn’t want to it be a separation between mutants and humans, “us and them”. Just “us”.
    Genosha was ran by humans and mutant members and had a human ambassador called Alda Huxley that made the deal with the UN to put Magneto as their leader, it´s a myth genosha only had mutants living there and Morrison and Hickman can fight me over this

    Utopia was supported directly by the human authorities of San Francisco, with the mayor as it´s main supporter, they mostly keep to the island because they were a persecuted endangered species at the moment with villains like Bastion willing to kill them all with hundreds of sentinels, if they lived on San Francisco there would have been human casualties too.

    From what I am reading here and what I saw on X-men Red Jean is doing exactly what Scott did, for the same reasons and her idea would put mutants underwater, even more isolated thant they ever were on Genosha or Utopia, like I get her intention but her actions were the same and for me at least she doesn´t have to justify them but I do dislike the hypocrisy of writers painting one character as good and another as evil when they are doing the exact same thing, just because they want to keep an artificial us vs them position. In here Jean is a nice mutant and Cyclops is a bad mutant, even if they are doing the exact same thing.

    Yeah. Like I said before. This whole idea of “endangered species” is absolute BS. Mutants and humans are too genetically similar to be two different species. The only real, feasible, pragmatic path is co-existence. And it’s time someone, *anyone*, realised it.
    Yes they are the same but at the time magic was involved and make it unable for human and mutants to have more mutant children,that´s why it was looked as an endangered species at the time, until the phoenix jumstarted mutant births around the world again.

    Just because they were successful at implementing the dream of co-existence, it doesnÂ’t mean itÂ’s a bad idea.
    They werenÂ’t successful at implementing mutant nations either. Why does it seem more pragmatic?It makes no sense.
    I don´t believe co-existence and mutant nations are mutually exclusive, you can have a nation with mutant and humans like Genosha, the devil is in the details how do you do it and what form will take the goverment. Charles dream is a good one but having a school of hiddren adolescents who only co-exist with other people like them to fight for humanity is a good basis for a superhero story but it´s not enough to help an entire group of people who have barely made it past constant attacks and genocide attempts or the get the other half of humanity to help them and see them as equals, not a danger or something that must be destroyed, that´s the problem, humans and mutants don´t see each other as equals, therefore they don´t see the point in coexisting. I guess that´s why people see more value in having a place of their own, like the mansion but on a bigger level.

    Krakoa is a good beggining but it needs to address the fact mutants can and will also have human babies and mutants will keep on getting born on the rest of planet earth, so it must develop it´s laws according to this reality and try to keep themselves from doing the same thing humans institutions did to them before.

    He knew something big was coming, but he didn’t know what. Unless he was lying.
    I want to believe he wasn’t lying, but nowadaysÂ… I donÂ’t know.
    I don´t think he lied but he knew Mars was going to be terraformed, he said to Steve - Come to the Gala because Steve wanted to know if Arakko would be a permanent presence on Earth so he wasn´t lying but he could have given Steve a heads up about how big their plans were going to be.

    I think Duggan will just jump in the action and weÂ’ll not see much of it other than some comments about the election.
    I hope IÂ’m wrong, though.
    At his best he´s able to do both, deep reflection and actions scenes, he has done great with Savage Avengers so I hope we see this side of him on this title too.

    It was planned, but judging by his interviews, Spurrier brought his own pitch to the book. SoÂ… things might have changed. The writers have often talked about how they work with broad strokes when it comes to the general direction and adapt as the writers bring in their particular ideas.
    So itÂ’s possible there was some problems that resulted from the timing in which those issues were written.
    IÂ’m not saying itÂ’s the case, though. I just donÂ’t know.
    It´s possible but the Gala itself was put on hold, it was supposed to happen on december last year so while I could see them making some changes I don´t think these were big changes.

    TheyÂ’re not a monolith but theyÂ’re also not a democracy. They have rulers and I was talking exactly about them.
    From the solicits it looks like Storm will have her problems dealin with them, she has to show them she´s an authority they can respect even if she´s not part of the ruling body so we will see how well she does, still, until Genesis or Apocalypse come back and tell them they have to attack earth, which we don´t know if they are going to be interested in doing, most of Arakko right now seems to be happy to play nice with the mutants who gifted them a new planet to live on.
    Last edited by Lucyinthesky; 06-26-2021 at 01:04 PM.
    "To the X-men then, who don´t die the old fashioned way and no matter how hard we try, none of us die forever" Uncanny X-Men #270, Jean and Ororo

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    Astonishing Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harpsikord View Post
    Jean at least appears in X-Factor #10. Messina posted this on Twitter:

    Sigh here we go, I just hope this will have more curve balls than we are expecting, I like the image there too, it looks like this is the day after the Gala and I am curious who´s the one death, all my suspects are there
    "To the X-men then, who don´t die the old fashioned way and no matter how hard we try, none of us die forever" Uncanny X-Men #270, Jean and Ororo

    Magneto: The master of magnetism Appreciation 2022
    Polaris: The Mistress of Magnetism Appreciation 2022
    House of M Appreciation 2022

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