Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2021

[andreikes]

She died on the first mission and in that wolverine comic (without logic). Maybe the last issue of x force is to show the differences in her power

[Rang10]

This!!!


Emma and Jean are no where near one another when it comes to meaningful usage in this era, everything from Emma's roll out to how Hickman has re-established Emma in his era has been great. All the previous years of bs the character suffered he immediately fixed it, and she is presented across titles as powerful, a leader, and and her thoughts and emotions drives the narrative in Marauders. But Hickman has done something else, that many outside of Emma's fans may not realize. He effortless, positioned Emma in this era under her OWN thoughts and actions she is not bound to anyone or anything her ambitions and drives are her own. She entered this era like a BOSS, is being portrayed as someone who greatly cares for her students, and daughters, is a good friend who will go to hell and back to protect her own. But more than that, Emma has always been a peer to Xavier and Magneto, but he's positioned her as their equals and unlike many of the other long tenured "X-men" she in not in that mentor/mentee role she is one of the figureheads of mutantdom. Rarely do women get the focus, attention, or inflection of their male counterparts but Emma has entered an area that few women outside of Storm under Claremont, and Rogue under Carey receive and that's meaningful focus. I can think of 100 different avenues the next writer could easily pick up from this era concerning Emma and run with it. She's a businesswoman, council member, mutants rights activist, a teacher, a friend/confidant, and she is in a space related to the narrative that few others outside of Logan receive. She is in that special area where not only do writers WANT to write her, their inspired to write about her because of the unique and interesting circumstances she is thrust into.


Which brings us to Jean, often times readers bring up things like her being a former council member or X-force and the only questions I ask are? Between joining the council and leaving what has changed about Jean, what development did she receive directly related to her tenure on the council, what were the consequences? There were none, it is highlighted even moreso when you realize Scott didn't have to give up or lose ANYTHING. He's still the Captain Commander and he'll be joining the new X-men team with all his development intact. Heck even X-force which has been good to Jean has wrapped up her story completely, no big conflict no real changes. She left the same way she started the team, and guess a conversation can be had about her protecting her morals. But is that really the kind of story that excites readers or make them want to know more about her? I know I'm probably simplifying things more than they are but what are Jean's own thoughts, what does she even think of Krakoa? I've seen some state well Scott isn't any better off, but my confusion is panel time doesn't mean development. Scott has felt like himself or at least as close to it as Hickman can get. We know the relationship between him and Logan in this era, we know the depths he'll go to to save his children, or to protect them. We feel the fatherly relationships between Mags/Xavier and Scott their like proud dads rooting him on and supporting his decisions even when they don't agree. We seen both his relationships with his brothers and both are unique and different but he loves them both all the same.

Same with the mission, Scott is the guy who gets things done but can also be very flirty, he is very familiar and warm to his subordinates. We've even seen Scott when he's relaxed and lounging around, I know his reduce attention is striking for some but Scott feels like a person to me. Even in X-force Jean doesn't have any meaningful relationships outside of Logan and her "hate" for Beast, none of which pushes the narrative forward as Beast is continuously left up to his own devices. But the biggest thing for me, is Xavier and Storm, a father figure and sister died and nearly died and Jean while was directly involved in both stories, neither had real stakes for her and how she feels about them. No follow up on resurrecting Xavier, something if Emma did would have lasting effects at least across other books, nor was she even involved in the rescue mission to save Storm's life. I mean has she even talked to either of them in the last two years in a meaningful capacity outside of the issues they were dead or dying in? And this is all without mentioning her lack of a relationship with any of her friends or either of her children as we only witness them interact when Scott is around and from his perspective.



END OF RANT lol

No doubt Hickman positioned Emma as being independent player, but I disagree at her being a peer to Magneto and Xavier, that is Moira role. he really recovered her from being a villain, it is like it never happened.

I think Scott being flirty and warm with his subordinates, is not how he is. He is plain and serious. It's also weird AF he cares about gabriel that he barely know and is creepy AF him talking about fire. I think today wolverine gave some clues about the reality on Krakoa.

It's really important that you noted that Scott can get his captain commander, but Jean had to stop being on Council to be on X-men because he said it was a rule to be on X-men. For me makes zero sense do it this way.
Both Jean leaing council and x-force had zero consequences, because she did very little on both. X-foce she just let Beast descend on tyranny and she just left the team without trying to stop him or warn other of his erratic behavior
You are right, we still didn't saw what Jean thinks about anything on Krakoa.

Jean relationships seems to be Scott, Logan and the kids that she only interacts when Scott is around.And he has the meaningful dialog with them, not Jean.

I really think Jean need to expand on the relationships, specially Storm and Xavier.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

I'm not expecting the resurrection power boost to mean anything for Jean. The entire thought process behind the character under this editorial group is that she shouldn't be powerful. Hence the demand that she not have the pink form, not be Omega TK, totally disavow any connection she had to her Phoenix stories, not be brave during missions, so on and so forth.

This!!!


Emma and Jean are no where near one another when it comes to meaningful usage in this era, everything from Emma's roll out to how Hickman has re-established Emma in his era has been great. All the previous years of bs the character suffered he immediately fixed it, and she is presented across titles as powerful, a leader, and and her thoughts and emotions drives the narrative in Marauders. But Hickman has done something else, that many outside of Emma's fans may not realize. He effortless, positioned Emma in this era under her OWN thoughts and actions she is not bound to anyone or anything her ambitions and drives are her own. She entered this era like a BOSS, is being portrayed as someone who greatly cares for her students, and daughters, is a good friend who will go to hell and back to protect her own. But more than that, Emma has always been a peer to Xavier and Magneto, but he's positioned her as their equals and unlike many of the other long tenured "X-men" she in not in that mentor/mentee role she is one of the figureheads of mutantdom. Rarely do women get the focus, attention, or inflection of their male counterparts but Emma has entered an area that few women outside of Storm under Claremont, and Rogue under Carey receive and that's meaningful focus. I can think of 100 different avenues the next writer could easily pick up from this era concerning Emma and run with it. She's a businesswoman, council member, mutants rights activist, a teacher, a friend/confidant, and she is in a space related to the narrative that few others outside of Logan receive. She is in that special area where not only do writers WANT to write her, their inspired to write about her because of the unique and interesting circumstances she is thrust into.


Which brings us to Jean, often times readers bring up things like her being a former council member or X-force and the only questions I ask are? Between joining the council and leaving what has changed about Jean, what development did she receive directly related to her tenure on the council, what were the consequences? There were none, it is highlighted even moreso when you realize Scott didn't have to give up or lose ANYTHING. He's still the Captain Commander and he'll be joining the new X-men team with all his development intact. Heck even X-force which has been good to Jean has wrapped up her story completely, no big conflict no real changes. She left the same way she started the team, and guess a conversation can be had about her protecting her morals. But is that really the kind of story that excites readers or make them want to know more about her? I know I'm probably simplifying things more than they are but what are Jean's own thoughts, what does she even think of Krakoa? I've seen some state well Scott isn't any better off, but my confusion is panel time doesn't mean development. Scott has felt like himself or at least as close to it as Hickman can get. We know the relationship between him and Logan in this era, we know the depths he'll go to to save his children, or to protect them. We feel the fatherly relationships between Mags/Xavier and Scott their like proud dads rooting him on and supporting his decisions even when they don't agree. We seen both his relationships with his brothers and both are unique and different but he loves them both all the same.

Same with the mission, Scott is the guy who gets things done but can also be very flirty, he is very familiar and warm to his subordinates. We've even seen Scott when he's relaxed and lounging around, I know his reduce attention is striking for some but Scott feels like a person to me. Even in X-force Jean doesn't have any meaningful relationships outside of Logan and her "hate" for Beast, none of which pushes the narrative forward as Beast is continuously left up to his own devices. But the biggest thing for me, is Xavier and Storm, a father figure and sister died and nearly died and Jean while was directly involved in both stories, neither had real stakes for her and how she feels about them. No follow up on resurrecting Xavier, something if Emma did would have lasting effects at least across other books, nor was she even involved in the rescue mission to save Storm's life. I mean has she even talked to either of them in the last two years in a meaningful capacity outside of the issues they were dead or dying in? And this is all without mentioning her lack of a relationship with any of her friends or either of her children as we only witness them interact when Scott is around and from his perspective.



END OF RANT lol

Jean's changes are that she really just wants to be a mom and she realizes she is not cut out for dealing with any difficult situations.

Hickman chef's kiss.

[andreikes]

I think a rock hit her on the head.
Well, putting up with that until the end of the hickman era is pretty sad. Sometimes I think he hates Jean or the fans

[Daedra]

I think a rock hit her on the head.
Well, putting up with that until the end of the hickman era is pretty sad. Sometimes I think he hates Jean or the fans

While I doubt we are even a blip on Hickman's radar by now we Jean's fans should be quite accustomed to put up with unfavorable "circumstances", there's always some "real world"/non comics obstacle dragging the character down.

[WallStreeter]

Omega mean limitless potential. My guess is that she probably is stronger after dying many times since Krakoa is formed

That should be the case, and we will see if there is follow up on it.

This!!!


Emma and Jean are no where near one another when it comes to meaningful usage in this era, everything from Emma's roll out to how Hickman has re-established Emma in his era has been great. All the previous years of bs the character suffered he immediately fixed it, and she is presented across titles as powerful, a leader, and and her thoughts and emotions drives the narrative in Marauders. But Hickman has done something else, that many outside of Emma's fans may not realize. He effortless, positioned Emma in this era under her OWN thoughts and actions she is not bound to anyone or anything her ambitions and drives are her own. She entered this era like a BOSS, is being portrayed as someone who greatly cares for her students, and daughters, is a good friend who will go to hell and back to protect her own. But more than that, Emma has always been a peer to Xavier and Magneto, but he's positioned her as their equals and unlike many of the other long tenured "X-men" she in not in that mentor/mentee role she is one of the figureheads of mutantdom. Rarely do women get the focus, attention, or inflection of their male counterparts but Emma has entered an area that few women outside of Storm under Claremont, and Rogue under Carey receive and that's meaningful focus. I can think of 100 different avenues the next writer could easily pick up from this era concerning Emma and run with it. She's a businesswoman, council member, mutants rights activist, a teacher, a friend/confidant, and she is in a space related to the narrative that few others outside of Logan receive. She is in that special area where not only do writers WANT to write her, their inspired to write about her because of the unique and interesting circumstances she is thrust into.


Which brings us to Jean, often times readers bring up things like her being a former council member or X-force and the only questions I ask are? Between joining the council and leaving what has changed about Jean, what development did she receive directly related to her tenure on the council, what were the consequences? There were none, it is highlighted even moreso when you realize Scott didn't have to give up or lose ANYTHING. He's still the Captain Commander and he'll be joining the new X-men team with all his development intact. Heck even X-force which has been good to Jean has wrapped up her story completely, no big conflict no real changes. She left the same way she started the team, and guess a conversation can be had about her protecting her morals. But is that really the kind of story that excites readers or make them want to know more about her? I know I'm probably simplifying things more than they are but what are Jean's own thoughts, what does she even think of Krakoa? I've seen some state well Scott isn't any better off, but my confusion is panel time doesn't mean development. Scott has felt like himself or at least as close to it as Hickman can get. We know the relationship between him and Logan in this era, we know the depths he'll go to to save his children, or to protect them. We feel the fatherly relationships between Mags/Xavier and Scott their like proud dads rooting him on and supporting his decisions even when they don't agree. We seen both his relationships with his brothers and both are unique and different but he loves them both all the same.

Same with the mission, Scott is the guy who gets things done but can also be very flirty, he is very familiar and warm to his subordinates. We've even seen Scott when he's relaxed and lounging around, I know his reduce attention is striking for some but Scott feels like a person to me. Even in X-force Jean doesn't have any meaningful relationships outside of Logan and her "hate" for Beast, none of which pushes the narrative forward as Beast is continuously left up to his own devices. But the biggest thing for me, is Xavier and Storm, a father figure and sister died and nearly died and Jean while was directly involved in both stories, neither had real stakes for her and how she feels about them. No follow up on resurrecting Xavier, something if Emma did would have lasting effects at least across other books, nor was she even involved in the rescue mission to save Storm's life. I mean has she even talked to either of them in the last two years in a meaningful capacity outside of the issues they were dead or dying in? And this is all without mentioning her lack of a relationship with any of her friends or either of her children as we only witness them interact when Scott is around and from his perspective.



END OF RANT lol

Why would there need to be follow ups on her resurrection of Xavier? Storm is the one who nearly died, why would the reaction be on how Jean felt? Storm was meant to be the focus on that issue.

While I love when Jean gets focus not everything she is involved with means that the focus should be on her. Any powerful telepath could resurrect someone. Basically due to his role in founding Krakoa it´s Charles´s job to handle cerebro and do the resurrections (Jean didn´t use cerebro, but whatever). Exodus has resurrected people without the 5, including Xavier. Emma Frost, Rachel, Cable, Monet, the Cuckoos, Selene, Psylocke, Captain Britain/Betsy, Quentin, Shadow King, likely could all resurrect someone if the story required it. Of course some of these characters would never be trusted to be that involved in things.

[Cruelrain]

Jean's changes are that she really just wants to be a mom and she realizes she is not cut out for dealing with any difficult situations.

Hickman chef's kiss.

That's why i hate seeing Jean in that position.

Not hating on her "kids" but your mother was a jean clone and another jean...

[Kingdom X]

That's why i hate seeing Jean in that position.

Not hating on her "kids" but your mother was a jean clone and another jean...

What’s weird is that they don’t even have her fill out the mom role well. Like we never see any deep bonding moments with the kids.

[BESTXMAN]

That's why i hate seeing Jean in that position.

Not hating on her "kids" but your mother was a jean clone and another jean...

Excuse me but how dare you?

[Exodus]

That's why i hate seeing Jean in that position.

Not hating on her "kids" but your mother was a jean clone and another jean...

well........., I disagree on the Cable part. Jean is definitely his mother!!

I don't get what Rachel wants from her though.

[Havok83]

well........., I disagree on the Cable part. Jean is definitely his mother!!

I don't get what Rachel wants from her though.

Nothing. Rachel got over her mommy issues a long time ago. She isnt whining about Jean like she was in Claremont's run. Though we havent seen it explored, its implied that they have a decent enough relationship right now. There is no issue

[Askani's Flame]

well........., I disagree on the Cable part. Jean is definitely his mother!!

I don't get what Rachel wants from her though.

Right, Jean is 100% Cable's mother.
As for Rachel, they have barely spoken on panel in two years. Between Extermination (chronologically) and Cable they hadn't acknowledged each other on panel. Hickman owns a good chunk of the blame on that as he writes Jean as someone who was to be the mom, and Rachel as the angsty teen goth daughter, but never interacting on panel. I'd wager Rachel is looking to have a relationship with Jean but knows they will never be mother daughter, and while we know Jean cares for Rachel we don't know what she wants out of their dynamic (which is equally important). So given that they won't have them interact in meaningful ways on panel we have to take with editors and writers on their word they are "close family", but we don't know their motivations or feelings.

[Rang10]

That's why i hate seeing Jean in that position.

Not hating on her "kids" but your mother was a jean clone and another jean...

this is so true and awkward.

Cable still has the fact that she raised him, but Rachel was never raised by Jean and it daughter of a alternate Jean.

It's a forced situation, even Cable had to be de-aged for it to work

What’s weird is that they don’t even have her fill out the mom role well. Like we never see any deep bonding moments with the kids.

That makes it even worse.Seems like they need a mom and Jean was the best candidate, so she was slapped there

[andreikes]

I hope the cable of the future appears soon

[Exodus]

I hope the cable of the future appears soon

He will probably be absolutely heartbroken when he returns: "wtf, is going on here?! You've replaced me with another fake son from an alternative future timeline? What's wrong with you, MOTHER!"