Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2021

[darewithpeace]

She was always in control, I miss her
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me too, she was a huge wild card on that era

[Triniking1234]

Was he overstepping with Franklin? He pretty much just included him in a data table and had that one exchange with the FF. All of which makes sense because Franklin was a mutant so it’s not like he pulled it out of nowhere.

Honestly, they should've asked Slott and Hickman their plans before they went ahead with XM vs F4.

[Rang10]

Has it been announced who will write the new X-men team book and who the artist will be? I’m hoping for new individual yet complementary costumes, especially Jean!

You mean the official x-men team from the X-men flagship book? that will be written by Hickman and I think asrar is one of the pencillers

[Celestialbodies]

I’m actually really curious how did a lot of you feel about Teen Jean? She got a lot of focus during her time but she obviously wasn’t the OG.

Really disliked her, Bendis is AWFUL at continuity and he does things for shock value without ANY understanding of where his story is going. That said, his version of Teen Jean leveled out for me halfway through. Looking back, Bendis or a writer like Bendis would be perfect for Adult Jean, we need someone who is willing to at least think outside of the box and push her forward.

Geez, People are saying that XoS was a good showing for Jean? Literally everything that happened during XoS was just diabolical and baddddd. Really if you are trying battle cry against most of the "fodder"(not to mention she was like "what Scott will tell me do. I will do." stuff) to save your poor helpless friends then I guess you just have to realize that Jean doesn't have standards.

As for X-Men 8, the Brood stories are not exasperating enough, Jean as "mind reader" can be replaced with majority of TP characters and it still be the same. And there are lots of TP characters.

Most of what she's done under Hickman is like a checklist which you could literally switch Jean out for any telepath or close friend or member of the X-men and nothing about the stories change. Even in XOS, you could have used any senior level X-man or close friend to Scott and nothing changes about that story.

At the time, I enjoyed her because I missed Jean so much. However, I don't think Bendis', Or Hopeless', Jean was particularly good. Mind controlling friends, the whole Bobby thing, and her overall persona didn't always gel with how I thought Jean should be written.

Obviously this Teen Jean wanted to be different, and makes sense seeing as how she wanted to change her future, but I don't miss that incarnation at all. I much prefer adult Jean, and her being a contemporary with her peers (Storm, Wolverine, Cyclops).

I did enjoy the pink form though, and how Bendis wrote Jean as powerful. I wish other writers would try to reutilize the pink form, because I think its the best thing from that era, and I continue to be frustrated that no one does.

I definitely miss, how Teen Jean had a presence about herself, she was powerful which she knew but so did everyone else and they showed her respect for it. Something outside of XMR and maybe the recent KIB Adult Jean is not shown as consistently powerful as Teen Jean nor is her reputation as revered as it was while Teen Jean was here!

If you refer back to the X-Men Monday issue 15 at AIPT JDW and Dennis Hopeless/Hallam:




link:

https://aiptcomics.com/2019/06/10/x-...-15-jean-grey/

Though as previously mentioned the events in the Jean Grey solo and Phoenix Resurrection did not always match up very well but what can you do. I definitely preferred Dennis Hopeless to Matt Rosenberg. I think Hopeless understood the Phoenix better imo.

I absolutely, hated Hopeless and Rosenberg's Jean, they are the epitome of deconstructing without adding anything to a character, Hopeless I feel ambivalence towards for no reason other than literally nothing in that solo series added anything of substance to Jean's character or her overall legacy. Ghost Jean felt to me like a caricature of everything Jean is not. Impatient, bitter, angry, jealous, shortsighted, bullheaded, and clearly out of her depth as NOTHING she did even helped or protected Teen Jean moreover if Emma is written more in character and kinder than Jean maybe somewhere in the story you flubbed up. Rosenberg's Jean spoke for herself...simply awful!

How many of you thought that something was wrong with Jean when you read HoX? I was sure that Xavier was holding her back. I thought that since Moira was an important player and that we way back in UXM #125 got to know that Moira knew Jean had the potential to be a goddess, Moira had now decided to hold Jean back so she wouldn’t stop the big plan. In UXM #125 Jean keeps her Phoenix powers in check so that they are at the level she was as Marvel Girl. I was sure that the Marvel Girl dress Hickman had Jean wear was a nod to that. It would have made so much sense, given how much Hickman must have researched about Moira.

I have given up on that theory now. But it would have been so amazing if there had been an explanation to Jean’s regression in the actual story.

Ah, well, I was patient in the first half of the 1990s, I will be patient now as well.

I'm still not certain Xavier didn't do something to Jean or any of them really, and I won't change my mind until after the era of Hickman has concluded.

That's because of Aaron's plans. Sure Jean's story doesn't depend on the PF, but at this point if it does show up in Hickman's run as alluded by PoX, it'll be any character but Jean. It has become so mangled by the Avengers office, yet is clearly an X-franchise element.

We don't need this milestone run interfered with for a soon to be ignored and haphazard storyline.

How does the Franklin storyline become additive to the character or Thor as the PF's son? Marvel has a lack of stewardship and foresight with their characters that always leads to inconsistencies.

Ugh, Aaron clearly doesn't care about the complexities of the characters he uses he simply wants to tell "cool" stories unfortunately tythe concepts he uses are often outside his scope, so we end up with a story where Logan is more invested in stopping the PF than Jean...the woman who has had a relationship with it for over 30 years...no one else is treated like this with concepts they are the originators of.

[Rang10]

Really disliked her, Bendis is AWFUL at continuity and he does things for shock value without ANY understanding of where his story is going. That said, his version of Teen Jean leveled out for me halfway through. Looking back, Bendis or a writer like Bendis would be perfect for Adult Jean, we need someone who is willing to at least think outside of the box and push her forward.

After Bendis run, people started to say that jean always read minds all the time without consent. That isn't true at all, but people have mostly headcanon about jean instead of reading the books that she star on it.

Jean really need to get out of the box, some deconstruction so she can find herself and get her own path.

I absolutely, hated Hopeless and Rosenberg's Jean, they are the epitome of deconstructing without adding anything to a character, Hopeless I feel ambivalence towards for no reason other than literally nothing in that solo series added anything of substance to Jean's character or her overall legacy. Ghost Jean felt to me like a caricature of everything Jean is not. Impatient, bitter, angry, jealous, shortsighted, bullheaded, and clearly out of her depth as NOTHING she did even helped or protected Teen Jean moreover if Emma is written more in character and kinder than Jean maybe somewhere in the story you flubbed up. Rosenberg's Jean spoke for herself...simply awful!

You are right about both writers. Rosenberg had Jean so depressed that he thought she couldn't lead a book

I'm still not certain Xavier didn't do something to Jean or any of them really, and I won't change my mind until after the era of Hickman has concluded.

clearly there is something wrong with the mutants. They wouldn't even just follow Xavier so easily

[Celestialbodies]

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[Celestialbodies]

After Bendis run, people started to say that jean always read minds all the time without consent. That isn't true at all, but people have mostly headcanon about jean instead of reading the books that she star on it.

Jean really need to get out of the box, some deconstruction so she can find herself and get her own path.





You are right about both writers. Rosenberg had Jean so depressed that he thought she couldn't lead a book




clearly there is something wrong with the mutants. They wouldn't even just follow Xavier so easily

The funniest thing about the "Jean is a telepathic snoop" angle is that he would literally have all the other telepaths in his cast casually and indiscriminately read the minds of friends and enemies alike. Moreover the very issue next issue, after he in-story has characters call out Jean's behavior, the Stepford Cuckoos are literally reading Teen Jean's mind without her permission. Except only Teen Jean was called out for her telepathic behavior after receiving her power fairly early yet no attention was brought towards all the other long-tenured X-telepaths who used their powers without consequence.


Jean and wasted story opportunities due to editorial influence, name a more iconic duos, Rosenberg set the stage for Jean's return but NOTHING about it was done to celebrate her. It was all because Rosenberg had such a hard on for deconstructing all things X-men.


All the senior X-men do feel off, not that I expect them to immediately recognize what's happening but I did expect at least something like this:

[Soulsword323]

This is why I didn't care for X-Men Red's ending. Jean wanting to heal Cassandra and help her atone was just really bad, and doesn't align with Jean's previous character. It's also why Taylor's Jean missed the mark for me in the end.

[Celestialbodies]

This is why I didn't care for X-Men Red's ending. Jean wanting to heal Cassandra and help her atone was just really bad, and doesn't align with Jean's previous character. It's also why Taylor's Jean missed the mark for me in the end.

Taylor had the right idea, but for the story to fully land to me, Jean and Cassandra should have had to face off solo. I get what he was attempting to do, and the first half of the run was great but the whole trying to rehabilitate Cassandra Nova was a step too far into the pacifist Jean. And unfortunately it did nothing for Jean, and the X-men were still tracking her down in Rosenberg's Uncanny X-men!

[Soulsword323]

Taylor had the right idea, but for the story to fully land to me, Jean and Cassandra should have had to face off solo. I get what he was attempting to do, and the first half of the run was great but the whole trying to rehabilitate Cassandra Nova was a step too far into the pacifist Jean. And unfortunately it did nothing for Jean, and the X-men were still tracking her down in Rosenberg's Uncanny X-men!

100% agree. I understand why he did what he did, but it wasn't what I wanted.

[johnnysv75]

I definitely miss, how Teen Jean had a presence about herself, she was powerful which she knew but so did everyone else and they showed her respect for it. Something outside of XMR and maybe the recent KIB Adult Jean is not shown as consistently powerful as Teen Jean nor is her reputation as revered as it was while Teen Jean was here!

Yes, everyone talked about how powerful Jeen was and about her potential. There was a scene where Beast said that Jeen used her TK in a way that rivaled Phoenix.

When Jean was dead people talked about her as the most powerful psi ever.

And when she returns?
She has a great, but too short, run in X-Men Red, and after that all that talk about her power and potential is almost forgotten.

More than 40 years ago, Jean became too powerful (for a woman) and that is still holding the portrayal of her back. That is structural misogyny at work.
Morrison did let her shine in glorious ways, too bad it ended the way it did.

It is 2021, I think it is high time that Jean is allowed to tap into her unlimited potential, to be powerful, glorious and, yes, a little bit dangerous.

[Cruelrain]

I definitely miss, how Teen Jean had a presence about herself, she was powerful which she knew but so did everyone else and they showed her respect for it. Something outside of XMR and maybe the recent KIB Adult Jean is not shown as consistently powerful as Teen Jean nor is her reputation as revered as it was while Teen Jean was here!

me too, these panels were something else for me, i always said that the Phoenix should belong to Jean and only Jean but since everyone is using it as a power boost now and some people always downplay Jean's omega level mutant status saying she's nothing without the Phoenix i prefer her to be powerful on her own.

[Celestialbodies]

Yes, everyone talked about how powerful Jeen was and about her potential. There was a scene where Beast said that Jeen used her TK in a way that rivaled Phoenix.

When Jean was dead people talked about her as the most powerful psi ever.

And when she returns?
She has a great, but too short, run in X-Men Red, and after that all that talk about her power and potential is almost forgotten.

More than 40 years ago, Jean became too powerful (for a woman) and that is still holding the portrayal of her back. That is structural misogyny at work.
Morrison did let her shine in glorious ways, too bad it ended the way it did.

It is 2021, I think it is high time that Jean is allowed to tap into her unlimited potential, to be powerful, glorious and, yes, a little bit dangerous.

Agreed with everything, she is trapped in the worst position as a female character and 40 years later it's still the young ingenue. She isn't allowed to be as powerful as Xavier even when she is labeled as such, she can't step into the role she was meant for because again Xavier needs something to do, and anything she does do outside her relationships and the Phoenix Force is immediately forgotten or never followed up on!

me too, these panels were something else for me, i always said that the Phoenix should belong to Jean and only Jean but since everyone is using it as a power boost now and some people always downplay Jean's omega level mutant status saying she's nothing without the Phoenix i prefer her to be powerful on her own.

Completely agreed!

[johnnysv75]

me too, these panels were something else for me, i always said that the Phoenix should belong to Jean and only Jean but since everyone is using it as a power boost now and some people always downplay Jean's omega level mutant status saying she's nothing without the Phoenix i prefer her to be powerful on her own.

The way Jeen used her powers here was such a perfect way of having her beginning to reach her unlimited potential, without the silliness the Phoenix force had become. That she isn’t doing this anymore is such a shame. This is the goddess Jean I know and love.

[Havok83]

This is why I didn't care for X-Men Red's ending. Jean wanting to heal Cassandra and help her atone was just really bad, and doesn't align with Jean's previous character. It's also why Taylor's Jean missed the mark for me in the end.

Why? The end of Taylor was a nod to how the Nova arc was resolved in Morrison's New X-men, which helped inspire Taylor's writing for Jean







In both situations, the way to deal with Nova wasnt to kill or punish her, but rather to heal her. In both times, Jean noticed she lacked empathy. In New X-men, they trapped her in Stuff as she and Xavier psychically rehabilitated her. In Red, she skipped that and went straight to rehabilitating her by mentally giving her the ability to feel empathy. The ending to Red 100% alligns with Jean's previous characterization. Taylor accomplished exactly what he was going for

The one problem I had was that it didnt feel resolved bc we have no idea what was done with her. Did she surrender to the Avengers? Was she free to just go? Did she get to show remorse for what she had done? Ideally had Red continued, we would have gotten followup but the series came to an end just as the X line was going through a major transition