Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2021

[Grinning Soul]

Since yesterday I’ve been feeling a little anxious about the new X-Men book. I don’t know exactly why. It’s just this weird feeling that they’ll do something that will really screw Jean up and make her even more hated…

Did you guys read anything that Duggan said (in an interview or social media post) that might indicate he actually likes the character?

[rhaenylis]

Since yesterday I’ve been feeling a little anxious about the new X-Men book. I don’t know exactly why. It’s just this weird feeling that they’ll do something that will really screw Jean up and make her even more hated…

Did you guys read anything that Duggan said (in an interview or social media post) that might indicate he actually likes the character?

I personally find that he did a good job with Jean when she appeared in Cable

[johnnysv75]

Since yesterday I’ve been feeling a little anxious about the new X-Men book. I don’t know exactly why. It’s just this weird feeling that they’ll do something that will really screw Jean up and make her even more hated…

Did you guys read anything that Duggan said (in an interview or social media post) that might indicate he actually likes the character?

Duggan is a decent writer. He is not my favorite, but he did a good job with Jean in Cable. She used her powers in creative ways and seemeed confident.

[Grinning Soul]

I personally find that he did a good job with Jean when she appeared in Cable

Duggan is a decent writer. He is not my favorite, but he did a good job with Jean in Cable. She used her powers in creative ways and seemeed confident.

They were okay, I guess. But the fact that he chose not to use her more often, considering it was supposed to be a book about family and she is Nathan's mother, worries me too... :/

I guess I'm just afraid because Marvel treated Jean with particular hate/depise for years... It's really not a rational reaction, I know. Thank you, though. :)

[rhaenylis]

But what makes me the most anxious is the treatment of Jean's relationships with the rest of the team, especially the other female members
Her friendship with Lorna has been so mocked over the years (we didn't even get Lorna's reaction to her resurrection, to say the least) and she shared little time with Rogue (apart from a pretty strong moment in X-Treme X-Men that I really liked), I really want these three powerful women to have meaningful interactions with each other
And of course there's Laura who she bonded with in X-Men Red

[Grinning Soul]

But what makes me the most anxious is the treatment of Jean's relationships with the rest of the team, especially the other female members
Her friendship with Lorna has been so mocked over the years (we didn't even get Lorna's reaction to her resurrection, to say the least) and she shared little time with Rogue (apart from a pretty strong moment in X-Treme X-Men that I really liked), I really want these three powerful women to have meaningful interactions with each other
And of course there's Laura who she bonded with in X-Men Red

Yes, please! Jean is supposed to be this person the X-Men loved, yet we don't get to see her interacting with her closest friends. It's weird.

EDIT: except on a side book, that is. There they played snooker.

[Exodus]

Since yesterday I’ve been feeling a little anxious about the new X-Men book. I don’t know exactly why. It’s just this weird feeling that they’ll do something that will really screw Jean up and make her even more hated…

Did you guys read anything that Duggan said (in an interview or social media post) that might indicate he actually likes the character?

Who hates Jean? Why do you think that? I think it is quite obvious that Jean and Storm are female X-Men royalty and this won't change. Even when she is not used so offen, she is still most of the time the face of the X-Men for most writers. Is there any female character more used atm (maybe Emma because of Marauders?)

I'm more anxious about the new title because I feel like I have been going through this premiss for an X-book already 100 times in my lifetime. It feels already absolutely dated and dull: "let's be heroes again!"...I don't think there is anything fresh about this take and book so far. While Way of X and S.H.I.E.L.D. and anything Hickman writes feels new. Duggan's new book feels super dated to me, unfortunately.

I'm really wondering if Hickman sets up Jean—and Scott—to be indeed outdated, nostalgic and retrograde characters in his run. They do not seem to go with the new "Zeitgeist". Jean quit every new role she was offered at Krakoa and just wants to go back to the old status quo. Maybe this is the problematic tone we feel as Jean fans when it comes to Jean during Hickman's run? While she tried to be transformative and progressive in "X-Men: Red", suddenly her most defining character trade seems to be being absolutely retrograde and mainly longing for the old status quo to return. Her old heroine outfit also would fit this interpretation. Maybe Jean as a character fails to adapt to the present?

Jean is not truly Krakoan (yet) but seems to be stuck in the past.

p.s. I'm not saying that this fits the character from previous incarnations but I think this is what Hickman wants her role to be.

[Grinning Soul]

Who hates Jean? Why do you think that?

I meant other X-Men fans.

I think it is quite obvious that Jean and Storm are female X-Men royalty and this won't change. Even when she is not used so offen, she is still most of the time the face of the X-Men for most writers. Is there any female character more used atm?

True. But that doesn't mean they like her. It might only mean they're aware she helps with the book sales, no?

As for other female characters… Do you mean frequency of appearance or importance of that appearance? Betsy and Kwanon have central roles on their books. Emma and Kate too. Sage appears pretty much everywhere…

Jean and Storm are supposed to be X-men royalty and they have made some cool appearances and impact on Krakoa, but they haven’t really have a central role in any book. You know what I mean? I hope this changes with the new book.

I'm more anxious about the new title because I feel like I have been going through this premiss for an X-book already 100 times in my lifetime. It feels already absolutely dated and dull: "let's be heroes again!"...I don't think there is anything fresh about this take and book so far. While Way of X and S.H.I.E.L.D. and anything Hickman writes feels new. Duggan's new book feels dated to me.

To be honest with you, though I'm happy about the hero thing, I don't really get the premise either. I understand the words, but not the concept.

What exactly does it mean to be the heroes of Krakoa's people?

I know I will ADORE the artwork. so I read it in the beginning but as soon as the artist drops and the writing is mediocre at best, I'm done with it.

I expect the first issues to look amazing, indeed. But amazing art isn’t enough to keep my interest… :/

I'm really wondering if Hickman sets up Jean and Scott to be indeed outdated, nostalgic and retrograde. They do not seem to go with the new Zeitgeist. Jean quit every new role she was offered at Krakoa and just want to go back to the old status quo.

That would actually be interesting if they would portray that more clearly. So far, everyone but Kurt seems to be super okay with Krakoa.

Maybe this is the problematic tone we feel when it comes to Jean during Hickman. While she tried to be transformative in X-Men: Red, suddenly her most defining character trade seems to being retrograde and longing for the old status quo. Her old heroine outfit also would fit this interpretation.

Jean is not truly Krakoan but seems to be stuck in the past.

Again, not necessarily stuck, but maybe questioning the whole Krakoa thing? She said in X-Force she was having trouble telling what was right and what was wrong.

I think it would be interesting if trying this hero thing was a subconscious process of figuring out where they fit in this new society (you know, finding answers through comparison between the old and the new). And that maybe they shouldn’t. Maybe they should go build their own dreams.

[loke13]

Since yesterday I’ve been feeling a little anxious about the new X-Men book. I don’t know exactly why. It’s just this weird feeling that they’ll do something that will really screw Jean up and make her even more hated…

Did you guys read anything that Duggan said (in an interview or social media post) that might indicate he actually likes the character?

Who hates Jean now? I mean granted there are some people who don't like Jean but that's true of every character but nothing we've seen from this era gives me the impression that Jean is hated now.

[Grinning Soul]

Who hates Jean now? I mean granted there are some people who don't like Jean but that's true of every character but nothing we've seen from this era gives me the impression that Jean is hated now.

I meant the other X-Men fans. I meant something could happen in story and, as consequence, X-Men fans would hate her more. Think of the Scarlet Witch, for instance.

I don't think anything that extreme will happen. But Jean doesn't need to do much wrong to attract the haters' vitriol.

[loke13]

Who hates Jean? Why do you think that? I think it is quite obvious that Jean and Storm are female X-Men royalty and this won't change. Even when she is not used so offen, she is still most of the time the face of the X-Men for most writers. Is there any female character more used atm (maybe Emma because of Marauders?)

I'm more anxious about the new title because I feel like I have been going through this premiss for an X-book already 100 times in my lifetime. It feels already absolutely dated and dull: "let's be heroes again!"...I don't think there is anything fresh about this take and book so far. While Way of X and S.H.I.E.L.D. and anything Hickman writes feels new. Duggan's new book feels super dated to me, unfortunately.

I'm really wondering if Hickman sets up Jean—and Scott—to be indeed outdated, nostalgic and retrograde characters in his run. They do not seem to go with the new "Zeitgeist". Jean quit every new role she was offered at Krakoa and just wants to go back to the old status quo. Maybe this is the problematic tone we feel as Jean fans when it comes to Jean during Hickman's run? While she tried to be transformative and progressive in "X-Men: Red", suddenly her most defining character trade seems to be being absolutely retrograde and mainly longing for the old status quo to return. Her old heroine outfit also would fit this interpretation. Maybe Jean as a character fails to adapt to the present?

Jean is not truly Krakoan (yet) but seems to be stuck in the past.

p.s. I'm not saying that this fits the character from previous incarnations but I think this is what Hickman wants her role to be.

I disagree. I don't think anything we've seen from her indicates that "she stuck in the past" if that were true she wouldn't be on Krakoa in the first place. As for the QC Mr. sinister pretty much proposed the ultimatum that if any member of the QC goes to help out in Otherworld they forfeit their seat. Does Jean seem like the type of character to quibble over bureaucracy when her friends and family are in danger? Of course not she would say screw that rip off her nametag and go flying to the rescue. Which highlighted a serious problem with krakoa that Krakoa need at the X-Men they needed a team of mutants that wasn't the whole into the quiet Council that wasn't bogged down by bureaucracy they needed it seemed that was about being superheroes. The creation of an X-Men team is a progressive step forward for krakoa so in that instance I can't agree with it being a step back for her character.

As for X-Force she didn't quit the team because she had a problem with the wet work she quit the team because she had a problem with pieces of leadership and the fact that he pretty much almost committed genocide, lied to and manipulated the team, and then had the nerve to be patronising about it. Once again to the Jean Grey strike you as a character to sacrifice her morals? Of course not. And as we've seen from the recent X-Force issues she's got no problem whatsoever leading the team.

[loke13]

I meant the other X-Men fans. I meant something could happen in story and, as consequence, X-Men fans would hate her more. Think of the Scarlet Witch, for instance.

I don't think anything that extreme will happen. But Jean doesn't need to do much wrong to attract the haters' vitriol.

Well I mean it would help if we had any sort of evidence of this but we don't. And like you said a pretty face of Suspicion not to mention Duggan hasn't shown any sort of Vivitrol towards Jean when he's written her. If anything Lorna or Rogue would fit that bill more.

[Grinning Soul]

I disagree. I don't think anything we've seen from her indicates that "she stuck in the past" if that were true she wouldn't be on Krakoa in the first place. As for the QC Mr. sinister pretty much proposed the ultimatum that if any member of the QC goes to help out in Otherworld they forfeit their seat. Does Jean seem like the type of character to quibble over bureaucracy when her friends and family are in danger? Of course not she would say screw that rip off her nametag and go flying to the rescue. Which highlighted a serious problem with krakoa that Krakoa need at the X-Men they needed a team of mutants that wasn't the whole into the quiet Council that wasn't bogged down by bureaucracy they needed it seemed that was about being superheroes. The creation of an X-Men team is a progressive step forward for krakoa so in that instance I can't agree with it being a step back for her character.

As for X-Force she didn't quit the team because she had a problem with the wet work she quit the team because she had a problem with pieces of leadership and the fact that he pretty much almost committed genocide, lied to and manipulated the team, and then had the nerve to be patronising about it. Once again to the Jean Grey strike you as a character to sacrifice her morals? Of course not. And as we've seen from the recent X-Force issues she's got no problem whatsoever leading the team.

Yes, I like to think that Jean, as a teamplayer, is trying to fit in this society. People ask for her help and she's there to help them. But she's having trouble adapting to it, not because she's stuck, but because of who she is.

And being a hero felt right to her, it makes sense to me that she'd want to try it again. So she can have this frame of reference, you know?

But this is what I want to read in the story. They're not really showing that to us...

[Grinning Soul]

Well I mean it would help if we had any sort of evidence of this but we don't. And like you said a pretty face of Suspicion not to mention Duggan hasn't shown any sort of Vivitrol towards Jean when he's written her. If anything Lorna or Rogue would fit that bill more.

Yes. I admit: it's not rational at all. It was just a weird feeling I couldn't shake off.

[Dam]

They were okay, I guess. But the fact that he chose not to use her more often, considering it was supposed to be a book about family and she is Nathan's mother, worries me too... :/

I guess I'm just afraid because Marvel treated Jean with particular hate/depise for years... It's really not a rational reaction, I know. Thank you, though.

Emma is his favorite, you can see how well he writes her. She appeared a lot in cable.
So I am like you, no hope at all with Dugann and a well written Jean.