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  1. #3181
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rang10 View Post
    She completely let on Scott the decision to start X-men. She even said that she was waiting on him. That is not being vocal or having a atitude. it is basically being a glorified girlfriend
    Thats just not true

  2. #3182
    hate cant reach you here Harpsikord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Soul View Post
    But that was exactly my point, my friend: perception.
    Then I think we were agreeing.

    Unfortunately, it's not about actual facts. If people can ignore saving the whole universe, what do you think they'll say about her role in Krakoa's society?

    That's what worries me about this Hickman run. Because I think it will be a remarkable moment for the X-Men, regardless of how I feel about it. And I don't want future readers to repeat stupid stuff about Jean in the future because her role now - though theoretically important - didn't make her character particularly noteworthy. In other words, there was nothing unique about her role.
    And I don't think that you have to worry about all of that. As it is Jean's perception is better when she doesn't have the Phoenix because of things like the Atom Bomb scene with Sabretooth in the 90s, teen Jean, X-Men Red, and other instances of her being awesome... that likely include things she's done in the current era. The fact of the matter is that she's about to be the co-leader of the best selling team book at Marvel if the new volume sells as well as the current does. That is what is going to drive people's perception of her.
    "We come into this world alone and we leave the same way. The time we spent in between - time spent alive, sharing, learning together... is all that makes life worth living." - Jean Grey

  3. #3183
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rang10 View Post
    She completely let on Scott the decision to start X-men. She even said that she was waiting on him. That is not being vocal or having a atitude. it is basically being a glorified girlfriend
    Or is she leading him subtly — or not so subtly — to the correct decision? I see Jean as being so in control these days. She isn’t following Cyclops lead. She’s leading him.

  4. #3184
    Incredible Member Grinning Soul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harpsikord View Post
    And I don't think that you have to worry about all of that. As it is Jean's perception is better when she doesn't have the Phoenix because of things like the Atom Bomb scene with Sabretooth in the 90s, teen Jean, X-Men Red, and other instances of her being awesome... that likely include things she's done in the current era. The fact of the matter is that she's about to be the co-leader of the best selling team book at Marvel if the new volume sells as well as the current does. That is what is going to drive people's perception of her.
    I do hope you're right. But I think that unless we see her role in the new team as something in-story remarkable (not necessarily feats of power or anything like this), what we'll get is the same people who say she was the worst host saying something like this: "Joined the X-Force. Quit. Joined the Quiet Council. Quit. Joined the X-Men. Stayed in the roster for 1 year, then quit".

    EDIT: 1 year in our time. In-story time it will be 1 month or something.

  5. #3185
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harpsikord View Post
    Then I think we were agreeing.



    And I don't think that you have to worry about all of that. As it is Jean's perception is better when she doesn't have the Phoenix because of things like the Atom Bomb scene with Sabretooth in the 90s, teen Jean, X-Men Red, and other instances of her being awesome... that likely include things she's done in the current era. The fact of the matter is that she's about to be the co-leader of the best selling team book at Marvel if the new volume sells as well as the current does. That is what is going to drive people's perception of her.
    I don’t even see her a being co-leader. She’s making all the big moves. Scott’s following. Does he make some tactical decisions on the ground? Okay, maybe. But they’re showing these decisions as being Jean’s. I really don’t see Hickman walking her status back from being a strong leader.

  6. #3186
    Astonishing Member Rang10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian B View Post
    I don’t even see her a being co-leader. She’s making all the big moves. Scott’s following. Does he make some tactical decisions on the ground? Okay, maybe. But they’re showing these decisions as being Jean’s. I really don’t see Hickman walking her status back from being a strong leader.
    Where is this book and where I can read? seriously, I only ever saw him leading her

  7. #3187
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rang10 View Post
    Where is this book and where I can read? seriously, I only ever saw him leading her
    He wasnt leading her in X-men 17

  8. #3188
    Astonishing Member Rang10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    He wasnt leading her in X-men 17
    And Jean still managed to not lead anyhting there too. Very consistent

    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Soul View Post
    I don't worry about this book only, but the long-term perception of the character.

    Just the other day I read someone saying that Jean was the worst host of the Phoenix. That all she did was changing clothes and becoming Dark Phoenix.

    I know! How do you even argue with these people?

    In the future, people will look at her current actions and say: "Joined the X-Force. Quit. Joined the Quiet Council. Quit. Joined the X-Men..."

    You know what I mean?

    I want this role of hers to be important. All right, she wanted to form this group of heroes, but what is her impact on the group? What is her unique contribution? For instance, will she use her diplomatic savoir-faire to protect the group from problems both within and outside Krakoa's politics? Will she influence the group to act in a way that is more than standard super-hero stuff? There is so much she could be offering to the group that the other team-mates cannot...

    I don't need her to be the field leader or to outshine all the other characters. That's not it. I don't think being in a romantic relationship is impediment for her to be own character either.

    But if her actual role in there is just to be the team's telepath, it will reinforce this perception that she's uninteresting. And that matters because future writers are reading these comics now.

    Again: I know it's too early to judge. We have to actually read the books. But the seemingly lack of interest in saying (or hinting at) anything about the character that we don't already know in an interview about a future book...? It makes me worry that there's just nothing to tell, nothing to hype us about.
    Jean wont quit X-men. Jean only quit the council because Scott said that council members are banned from the QC

    I think that writers need to define Phoenix and Jean Grey again. People often have the wrong interpretation of drk phoenix and some recent books helped that wrong perception.
    I think Morrison was positive about phoenix, but failed on the conclusion of the story

  9. #3189
    Incredible Member Grinning Soul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rang10 View Post
    Jean wont quit X-men. Jean only quit the council because Scott said that council members are banned from the QC

    I think that writers need to define Phoenix and Jean Grey again. People often have the wrong interpretation of drk phoenix and some recent books helped that wrong perception.
    I think Morrison was positive about phoenix, but failed on the conclusion of the story
    Please, don't pay attention to my avatar. I was just testing the fire simulation with the 3D model. I don't want the Phoenix *anywhere* near Jean. I understand other fans would want that. But I really don't,

    As for her quitting the team, they said they'll be rotating the roster with a new election and the announcement of the new team at each Hellfire Gala. I assume this includes Jean too. But we don't know for sure, of course.

  10. #3190
    Extraordinary Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    I think we are all needing a serious dosage of Jean Grey love for our beloved character.
    [Quote Originally Posted by Thor-El 10-15-2020 12:32 PM]


    "Jason Aaron should know there is already a winner of the Phoenix Force and his name is Phoenixx9."

  11. #3191
    Astonishing Member TheDeadSpace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rang10 View Post
    And Jean still managed to not lead anyhting there too. Very consistent



    Jean wont quit X-men. Jean only quit the council because Scott said that council members are banned from the QC
    I think you have two different scenarios mixed up. Jean left the QC because of Sebastian Shaw's comments on the QC members needing to avoid danger. Something she disagreed with. QC members not being on the new X-Men team is something Scott and her decided to make a stipulation as part of the voting for the team members.

    So unless Cyclops likes to cosplay as Sebastian Shaw, it wasn't his decision.

    I understand having reservations about her role in the new book, but nothing is out yet. There's still a small room for hope.
    "This is starting to sound like a bad comic book plot"
    -Spider-man

    “Evil is evil...lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same."
    -Geralt of Rivia

  12. #3192
    Astonishing Member Rang10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Soul View Post
    Please, don't pay attention to my avatar. I was just testing the fire simulation with the 3D model. I don't want the Phoenix *anywhere* near Jean. I understand other fans would want that. But I really don't,

    As for her quitting the team, they said they'll be rotating the roster with a new election and the announcement of the new team at each Hellfire Gala. I assume this includes Jean too. But we don't know for sure, of course.
    Oh well, she doesn' t need to be Phoenix again to solve it or give another insight

    Scott and Jean are permanent members. of the X-men because they are the founders

  13. #3193
    Smart & Swift & Violent Kitty&Piotr<3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonPiece View Post
    Not at all, someone even asked Percy on twitter and he said Jean still plays a role in x force in the future.
    Do you have a link to this?
    "Cyclops loves wilted roses because they remind him of dead redheads."
    -Gail

  14. #3194
    Incredible Member Grinning Soul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenixx9 View Post
    I think we are all needing a serious dosage of Jean Grey love for our beloved character.
    Yes, Phoenixx9, we do. We're all disagreeing passionately about stuff because we love this character as passionately. We just need to see a little bit of this love on the pages.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDeadSpace View Post
    So unless Cyclops likes to cosplay as Sebastian Shaw, it wasn't his decision.
    Hey, who knows? Anything to get Jean wearing that Black Queen costume again, right? ;D

    I hope I don't have to point out, but just in case: it's a joke! :)


    Edit:

    Quote Originally Posted by Rang10 View Post
    Scott and Jean are permanent members. of the X-men because they are the founders
    It would make sense. But I don't think even the people in the X-Office know that for sure at this point...
    Last edited by Grinning Soul; 05-17-2021 at 05:25 PM.

  15. #3195
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rang10 View Post
    And Jean still managed to not lead anyhting there too. Very consistent

    ...

    Jean wont quit X-men. Jean only quit the council because Scott said that council members are banned from the QC

    I think that writers need to define Phoenix and Jean Grey again. People often have the wrong interpretation of drk phoenix and some recent books helped that wrong perception.
    I think Morrison was positive about phoenix, but failed on the conclusion of the story
    Quote Originally Posted by TheDeadSpace View Post
    I think you have two different scenarios mixed up. Jean left the QC because of Sebastian Shaw's comments on the QC members needing to avoid danger. Something she disagreed with. QC members not being on the new X-Men team is something Scott and her decided to make a stipulation as part of the voting for the team members.

    So unless Cyclops likes to cosplay as Sebastian Shaw, it wasn't his decision.

    I understand having reservations about her role in the new book, but nothing is out yet. There's still a small room for hope.
    Exactly! The QC, with Shaw speaking, tried to deter Jean, and she wasn’t having it. That’s leadership right there. She wasn’t going to stick around as a rubber stamp for Xavier on the QC. She’s independent and can go form the X-Men, taking Scott along with her, which is exactly what she did.

    When Jean goes back to being a hapless damsel in distress, let me know. Because that’s not the character in the X titles today.

    BTW, again, anyone else think that giant robot thing in the preview art for Planet-Sized X looks like a Phalanx?

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