Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2021

[Phoenixx9]

Wanda is magic. She only used TK and TP (see that they were mostly ilusions) because she wasn't aware she is a witch
Sometimes on comics Wanda had red hair or even a brown redish tone

Yes, and originally, Wanda had black hair!

[darewithpeace]

I kinda have opposite expectations whenever I see MCU Wanda (who i love). They’ve given her red-ish hair, telekinesis that lights up the objects she moves, and some forms of telepathy. It makes it seem less likely that they’ll introduce Jean or wait a longer time so that the obvious comparisons don’t get made.

did you see the show? man, the last episode was epic! she may have orange hair, but the justice to the character was done.

[Celestialbodies]

Bottom line, it’s sexism. There is an underside to the Dark Phoenix Saga that writers avoid. The fact that Jean was manipulated and rapped, which led to her becoming unhinged and committing suicide at the end.

This is something no writer has been able to properly followup and use to evolve the character. Jean needs to reclaim the Phoenix Force and reshape her identify/destine as it prime avatar.

For me this is why writers have pigeonholed her into the mother/wife role, air the saint/martyr, apprentice, or now as ‘the Marvel Girl’. Phoenix Resurrection was such a poor portrayal of Jean’s relationship with the Phoenix Force because it made her a victim of the Phoenix Force. It’s not an abusive boyfriend/husband or manipulative parent, it’s her POWER. ✊ Not one that was chosen for her as a child, but one that she willingly claimed as her birthright.

There are many Marvel Characters that have dealt with trauma in their narratives and triumphed. Jean needs this kind of character progression. WandaVision has done a great job with Wanda, and her grief. I’m sure Captain Marvel will get a great story out of a Marcus or Rogue adaption in the MCU. After the #MeToo Movement I don’t know why Marvel hasn’t consider revisiting Jean’s trauma with Phoenix Force in a respectful and progressive way that would propel her to the leading character status and respect fans desire.

Morrison’s run was heading there with giving Jean power and autonomy until her death. X-Men Red was successful in establishing her role as a credible leader, but this current era had been a disappointment in this regard. Hopefully the Hellfire Gala can get the ball rolling.

It has always bothered me how no one has ever outside of Morrison used the PF to grow her character she it is always used as a cautionary tale for her and is so reductive to her overall mythos. Why can't she be allowed to embrace the PF, or at the very least use it to the same affect as the dozens of character who have in the last ten years.

It isnt about sexism considering the PF is currently being shopped around to other females. Jean doesnt have the PF right now bc the X-Office doesnt currently have access to it. PERIOD. Its been off limits for years bc Aaron has been using it and building a long tale narrative with it. The current Entre the Phoenix storyline would not be possible if Jean was Phoenix in the X-line. The X-office was lucky enough to even be able to use it as a plot device to bring Jean back but thats the extent to which they were able to

This in no way explains the decades after the original DPS which she wasn't allowed to use it, yet other characters are. Heck until a few years ago I didn't know that Professor Charles Xavier was flying around with the Starjammers as the "Bald Phoenix" in the Dark Phoenix costume yet Jean's story involving the PF can only be one in which her agency was supposedly stolen and then she died.

The reason why Jean has not been Phoenix in long-form narrative is because of sexism from comic creators and editors. This stems back from when she wasn’t allowed to fight Thor as Phoenix, her death being editorial mandated because the arts wanted to draw her gorging on an inhabited star system (which was not part of the script), to editorially enforcing a 15 year death period so that her husband would not be overshadowed by her, while he enjoyed himself with one of her abusers (keeping in mind that Emma was a victim herself, who evolved from a 2-dimensional villain). These are all examples of the sexism that has holds Jean back, which directly relates to why she has been unable to reclaim her identity as Phoenix.

Initially there was no Phoenix Force and when it was retcon into existence it was an abstract cosmic life force that took Jean’s image and her inner identity, see Classic X-Men #8 backup story on the origin of the Phoenix Force. Later on in Excalibur the imagery was retcon as originating from Freon I instead of Jean’s psyche. Jean Grey may be the human name her parents gave her but the Mutant name she chose for herself is Phoenix.

Aaron has gotten away with snatching the Phoenix Force because Jean was off the table for some long, and the only reason he has leaned into the whole Lady Phoenix/Firehair is because he wanted to establish her as Thor’s mother. Otherwise we would have gotten more Phoenix Wolverine stories or another ‘insert’ male character of his choosing. He is not following some established rule that the Phoenix host should be female. More than half of his contest of champions participantes are male, and his Phoenix Force would prefer to bond with Táchala because he is the current Avengers team leader. In Aaron’s canon he established that the final Phoenix Host is Wolverine.

X-Men Red had many positive things going for it, least of all a good showing for adult Jean as a leader. Teen Jean help reestablish that foundation. After all who would follow a dead women that had miss out on years of stories and character development? By the end of AvX it had already been too long. That’s why Bendis’s radical way of reestablishing Jean via time displaced teenager worked. The character had been continually bashed or venerated for some long.

Marvel editors have a weird obsession with Jean not being allowed to be too powerful and it's become almost a staple of her character. Anytime she is on the verge of something new, it is killed dead by Marvel management.

While I am really happy for all the development Scarlet Witch is getting in the MCU, I can’t help but worry if this will diminish Jean if and when she gets introduced into the MCU. Wanda already has TK and TP, even red hair, just like Jean. Will Jean be even needed in the future?

I love Wanda now the Scarlet Witch in the MCU, but similarities aside what does she have to do with Jean. Sure their powers are similar but so is like have the Avengers, Captain America, Hawkeye, Black Widow, Winter Soldier, etc all have the same abilities and function effortlessly together. Jean and Wanda have enough differences both in and out of comics to differentiate them in the MCU, imo. Moreover I think Wanda is the PERFECT precursor to Jean which again imo is going to allow them to fix some of the mistakes they made with her character and powers. I also think with characters like Xavier and Jean they are going to get to explore what telepathy and telekinesis is on the big screen in new and innovative ways!.

Why would Jean be diminished? She is a separate character with a different history from Wanda. Jean (and any other mutant character) will only be diminished if the writer(s) of their introduction to the MCU diminishes them with poor, lack-lustre storytelling.

Completely different characters, with different stories, circumstances, but similar powers, which honestly could be a blessing in disguise which forces the MCU to be a little more creative with telepathy and telekinesis. The X-men are filled with psychics so I expect them to focus on making the X-psychic much different than what we've seen from Wanda!

I hope Jean is the viewpoint character for whatever film stuff is coming for the X-Men. As much as I love the character, as much as comics and movies have featured her, I still feel like we don't really get inside her head. She has so much potential left.

But there is also the possibility that the movie creatives may feel the existing movies went to her well a couple times too many to give her much focus in the new flicks.

I don't know what kind of focus she will get but I hope that she is allowed to be complex and the relationships she forges actually matter. I would love to see the daughter/father relationship between Jean and Xavier. The development of her relationship to Scott, as well as how exactly she forms her sister bond with Storm. None of those relationships in my opinion have even scratched the surface of what they could be on the big screen.

[Havok83]

This in no way explains the decades after the original DPS which she wasn't allowed to use it, yet other characters are. Heck until a few years ago I didn't know that Professor Charles Xavier was flying around with the Starjammers as the "Bald Phoenix" in the Dark Phoenix costume yet Jean's story involving the PF can only be one in which her agency was supposedly stolen and then she died.
.

and my post has nothing to do with the 80s. Different times, different eras, different people in charge. If you go back to that, then its a terrible case for sexism as Rachel was Phoenix the entire time that Jean was back in the 80s and once Rachel was removed from the X-books, they leaned into that with Jean and ended up fully embracing it. The PF wasnt being passed around like a joint back then and up until Jean's NXM death, was very much a Grey thing

[Kingdom X]

Wanda is magic. She only used TK and TP (see that they were mostly ilusions) because she wasn't aware she is a witch
Sometimes on comics Wanda had red hair or even a brown redish tone

I know she’s magic. Maybe she’ll move onto using spells exclusively but that hasn’t been the case for the past 5-6 years in the movies.

You don’t think any casual MCU fans are gonna be like, “Who’s this new girl with similar hair, similar powers, who ALSO has a dark side and unlimited reserves of power?”

Maybe I’m being pessimistic and it’ll be fine!

[Micabe]

and my post has nothing to do with the 80s. Different times, different eras, different people in charge. If you go back to that, then its a terrible case for sexism as Rachel was Phoenix the entire time that Jean was back in the 80s and once Rachel was removed from the X-books, they leaned into that with Jean and ended up fully embracing it. The PF wasnt being passed around like a joint back then and up until Jean's NXM death, was very much a Grey thing

Quoted For Truth!

[Wiccan]

I know she’s magic. Maybe she’ll move onto using spells exclusively but that hasn’t been the case for the past 5-6 years in the movies.

You don’t think any casual MCU fans are gonna be like, “Who’s this new girl with similar hair, similar powers, who ALSO has a dark side and unlimited reserves of power?”

Maybe I’m being pessimistic and it’ll be fine!

I think Jean is well known by the general public enough to the point where the only people who would not know about her and may see her as a Wanda knockoff would be children.

[Daedra]

I don’t see why people are so worried, fox has already ruined any chance of a decent DPS cinematic adaptation I doubt marvel has any intention of going for a third try in the foreseeable future.
On the comic side they have ruined and pillaged the phoenix mythology behind any return point and turned Jean into a passive character with little relevance to the general plot economy.
I just don’t see Wanda usurping any narrative space belonging to Jean be it comics or movies.

[Havok83]

I know she’s magic. Maybe she’ll move onto using spells exclusively but that hasn’t been the case for the past 5-6 years in the movies.

You don’t think any casual MCU fans are gonna be like, “Who’s this new girl with similar hair, similar powers, who ALSO has a dark side and unlimited reserves of power?”

Maybe I’m being pessimistic and it’ll be fine!

Jean's been in the public eye for decades. I think most people know who she is. Especially with the MCU bringing in EP to play "Quicksilver" blurring the lines between the two studios. I think often people underestimate the intelligence of the audience. Its really not that difficult to grasp and a casual fan will be fine

[Phoenixx9]

I think all it will take for a positive Jean on-screen is a really potent portrayal of a strong, confident young woman who is in-control of her Omega TP & TK powers.

They can shy away from the Phoenix for now, but have Jean do more of what Xavier would normally do and even have Jean lead a training session while she in the danger room with the others. Show Jean with her close friendship with Ororo. Maybe even mention Lorna and Alex in passing, as ties to other characters and showing Jean's long-term X-connection and that she knows who is where and doing what.

[Rang10]

Jean's been in the public eye for decades. I think most people know who she is. Especially with the MCU bringing in EP to play "Quicksilver" blurring the lines between the two studios. I think often people underestimate the intelligence of the audience. Its really not that difficult to grasp and a casual fan will be fine

I remember that many people calling Wanda a Jean grey Lite, even comparing the similar costumes on Last Stand/Civil war

Yes, and originally, Wanda had black hair!

I think they went with blondish and strawberry Red because the actress is blond. So it is better a brighter tone

[Micabe]

Just started watching WandaVision... The first episode was hilarious

[andreikes]

Well, at least I hope that at the MCU it shows this "hunger" for power that Jean has and at the same time her fear. But not as something schizophrenic

[darewithpeace]

dont know if is already posted but looks like a Phoenix easter egg in Wandavision, cool!

[andreikes]

@marciotakara

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