Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2021

[Mercury]

Why are we acting as if Emma got to do something Jean couldn't or wouldn't do, though? In the first issue of ToM, she said she needed her help, changed her mind, and navigated Magneto's psyche anyway. In the second issue, she refused to mindwipe the Avengers, but Emma didn't mindwipe them either because she was already in the Hatchery and used her tp to cloak it from them. The only reason Jean didn't do the same is that both she and Lorna believed the Avengers already saw the Hatchery, hence why Lorna suggested the mindwipe.

[Wiccan]

Everyone here usually: I loves X-Men Red, loved Jean being an empathetic leader, loved that she teamed-up with the Avengers, I want her to have a positive relationship with the Avengers and the overall Marvel universe.

TOM #2: Jean treats the Avengers as friends and allies and doesn't want to trick them while they're grieving and instead considers letting them know the whole truth of the situation, as in that maybe she could get resurrected.

Everyone here: Omg this weak ass Krakoa-era Jean with no spine and useless powers who needs for Emma do the job

[Tank]

I hated xmen red carebear Jean too. She was all bark and no bite which lead to the most anticlimatic battle between her and Nova ever.

Jean can be empathic and caring but that’s not all she is. She will not hesitate to f something up if it threatens something she believes in or her friends/family. Aside from past cases listed see also the U-Men when they threatened her students. This saint Jean portrayal is boring because it makes her insanely one dimensional.

[Mercury]

Everyone here usually: I loves X-Men Red, loved Jean being an empathetic leader, loved that she teamed-up with the Avengers, I want her to have a positive relationship with the Avengers and the overall Marvel universe.

TOM #2: Jean treats the Avengers as friends and allies and doesn't want to trick them while they're grieving and instead considers letting them know the whole truth of the situation, as in that maybe she could get resurrected.

Everyone here: Omg this weak ass Krakoa-era Jean with no spine and useless powers who needs for Emma do the job

It's not just that, though. There's almost a purposeful level of cognitive dissonance on display... I mean, I just posted a panel from the first issue in which Jean essentially takes back her statement about needing Emma's help ("No, it can't [i.e., Emma helping her can't be arranged]. A nightmare can't confess.") and is shown effectively reading Magneto's mind and seeing the "nightmare," despite her claim. It's almost as if she said, "**** it, I'm doing this myself. And guess what? She wouldn't have been any help to me anyway because someone unraveling can't confess."

Furthermore, it's clear that Jean was too wrapped up in greeting and comforting the Avengers in this issue to think ahead in order to use her telepathy to manipulate what they saw (by the way, this is not mindwiping) when they walked into the Hatchery. It was only after the Avengers had already entered the Hatchery that Lorna suggested she mindwipe them, which Jean refused to do (this is certainly in character for her). However, Emma was already there and used her tp to manipulate what they saw. She didn't mindwipe them either, though.

By the way, telepathically erasing someone's memory and blocking certain aspects of an environment from someone's mind are two very different things. Had she acted in time, Jean would have done the latter, but I don't begrudge her refusing to do the former. After the poignant moments she shared with Vision and Wasp, that would have been a pretty slimy thing to do.

[Devaishwarya]

Not everyone here.

I'm quite okies with Jean's portrayal in ToM2.

[Starchilde]

I hated xmen red carebear Jean too. She was all bark and no bite which lead to the most anticlimatic battle between her and Nova ever.

Jean can be empathic and caring but that’s not all she is. She will not hesitate to f something up if it threatens something she believes in or her friends/family. Aside from past cases listed see also the U-Men when they threatened her students. This saint Jean is so off putting because it makes her insanely one dimensional.

Jean is assertive and does what needs to be done, but I think is totally plausible for her to be a little concerned about mindwiping grieving people. It's totally normal.

I've said before that I'm not a fan of some opinions Leah has on Jean (especially regarding the Dark Phoenix saga), but I don't think this situation is out of character.

[Mercury]

Not everyone here.

I'm quite okies with Jean's portrayal here.

Thank you, D. 😭 I feel like there are so few of us who get it.

Jean is assertive and does what needs to be done, but I think is totally plausible for her to be a little concerned about mindwiping grieving people. It's totally normal.

I've said before that I'm not a fan of some opinions Leah has on Jean (especially regarding the Dark Phoenix saga), but I don't think this situation is out of character.

Exactly, she's mindwiped before (from The Hidden Years; quickest reference I could get):



- but it's important to pay attention to the situation she was in. She and the Avengers share a long history. It's obvious that the moments she shared with them, especially her moment with Vision, were meant to evoke that. I'm sorry, but I would have found it a little gross had she just been like, "Ok, mindwipe time." In fact, I'm glad that they distinguished her as willing to go against the status quo to do something she morally objects to, i.e., mindwiping her grieving friends.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not going to be a hypocrite and say that I probably wouldn't have squealed a little bit had she just taken Lorna's suggestion, but I also would have said to myself, "Damn, girl. Really? Krakoa got to you like that?" It would have felt a little slimy. She is certainly tough, assertive, and has a bad temper. What she is not is sleazy.

[Wiccan]

I hated xmen red carebear Jean too. She was all bark and no bite which lead to the most anticlimatic battle between her and Nova ever.

Jean can be empathic and caring but that’s not all she is. She will not hesitate to f something up if it threatens something she believes in or her friends/family. Aside from past cases listed see also the U-Men when they threatened her students. This saint Jean portrayal is boring because it makes her insanely one dimensional.

I partially agree. In that, well, I didn't think think this issue was bad for her, but that I hated the battle with Nova where there was no battle and thought she was too pacifistic overall.

I just don't like to see the continuous tiring narrative that ~Krakoa-era Jean~ is being written so much worse than before and blabla.

[Havok83]

Everyone here usually: I loves X-Men Red, loved Jean being an empathetic leader, loved that she teamed-up with the Avengers, I want her to have a positive relationship with the Avengers and the overall Marvel universe.

TOM #2: Jean treats the Avengers as friends and allies and doesn't want to trick them while they're grieving and instead considers letting them know the whole truth of the situation, as in that maybe she could get resurrected.

Everyone here: Omg this weak ass Krakoa-era Jean with no spine and useless powers who needs for Emma do the job

Agreed. Its in character of Jean to not want to use her TP to manipulate her allies, especially during their time of grief

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

She shouldn't be gung-ho about it, but telling people who don't ordinarily look out for mutants about the hatchery seems super dumb.

But this is why they took her out of X-Force. No complexities allowed for this character. It's "mom", dish gloves, and telephoning only. = )

The way the plant people thing was handled early in X-Force was the right way. When written with complexity, Jean will handle things that need to be handled even if it means a sacrifice on her end.

I can see the argument that "oh the Avengers are cool, this won't come back to bite us", but that ultimately seems pretty dumb and naive when we arr talking about the thing that keeps mutants in a safe position.

[Mercury]

Kitty, oh Kitty, Kitty, Kitty... You and some others are starting to make me feel like Joan again...



I will go there for Jean... Watch your step...



I'll be back...

[Mercury]

Also, before any feathers are ruffled, my reply above was meant to be humorous. However, I will be back to address some of these claims...

[WallStreeter]

She shouldn't be gung-ho about it, but telling people who don't ordinarily look out for mutants about the hatchery seems super dumb.

But this is why they took her out of X-Force. No complexities allowed for this character. It's "mom", dish gloves, and telephoning only. = )

The way the plant people thing was handled early in X-Force was the right way. When written with complexity, Jean will handle things that need to be handled even if it means a sacrifice on her end.

I can see the argument that "oh the Avengers are cool, this won't come back to bite us", but that ultimately seems pretty dumb and naive when we arr talking about the thing that keeps mutants in a safe position.

She didn’t tell the Avengers about the resurrection protocols.

If they saw the Hatchery, which they did not, they would not know what was in those cocoons.

[WallStreeter]

The Avengers are súperhumans with big tech and access to magic maybe able to check after visiting Krakoa if they have been mind wiped.

If they found out they were mind wiped under these circumstances, all trust is lost and it could start a war. Jean was right not to mind wipe the Avengers. She is someone they trust.

It’s why Xavier asked Emma to use illusions to hide the Hatchery. Emma was willing to be if she got caught, as she spent a lot of time as a villain.

Leah wrote Jean and Emma’s roles perfectly.

[Mercury]

The Avengers are súperhumans with big tech and access to magic maybe able to check after visiting Krakoa if they have been mind wiped.

If they found out they were mind wiped under these circumstances, all trust is lost and it could start a war. Jean was right not to mind wipe the Avengers. She is someone they trust.

It’s why Xavier asked Emma to use illusions to hide the Hatchery. Emma was willing to be if she got caught, as she spent a lot of time as a villain.

Leah wrote Jean and Emma’s roles perfectly.

That's not how I read the scene, though. Jean didn't have an aversion to telepathically cloaking and preventing the Avengers from viewing the Hatchery; however, she was against mindwiping them, i.e., erasing their memory. You see, by the time Lorna alerted her, the Avengers were already close/inside the Hatchery. They got lucky that Emma was there and knew they were coming because she was able to do the cloaking. It's important to note, Emma did not mindwipe them either.