Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2021

[SiegePerilous02]

Depends on the matarial source of the universe. Injustice is a sexist story, Wonder Woman took the biggest hit, even worse than Superman. Hard to make it work, her story mkes zero sense.
Hickman is very consistent on his female portrayals

Taylor still could have done better than he did. But it's ridiculous to call him sexist as a person over it. Same with the Hickman situation.

[Rang10]

Taylor still could have done better than he did. But it's ridiculous to call him sexist as a person over it. Same with the Hickman situation.

He is just a writer, he needed WB games authorization to expand the storylines. Well nobody is called ickman sexist, but it isn't just one storyline for Hickman

[SiegePerilous02]

He is just a writer, he needed WB games authorization to expand the storylines. Well nobody is called ickman sexist, but it isn't just one storyline for Hickman

The implication is there with this comparison

Fiction often reflects what the writer believes, Whedon left many clues on his work on comics, TV and movies. He even championed a couple born from infidelity on comics.

And there isn't really consistency among storylines with Hickman.

[MechaJeanix]

Overall I am very happy with the direction Hickman has taken the X-books. It feels exciting, fresh, and there are so many x-titles... there is something for almost everyone. However I do agree that his Jean isn't the best. There have been some questionable moments but there has also been several good moments. I tend to focus on what I love. For Jean I loved that she was an OG member of the Quiet Council. I loved her being on the X-force team. Percy does great with her and maybe that will continue in some form. The team-up with Emma was great (the artist gets most of the credit it appears). The last issue of King in Black was great (despite the fainting but hey it is something telepaths tend to do so no biggie). So obviously some writers do see Jean as both a powerhouse and a capable leader. Duggan, Cates, and Percy have all used Jean well in the modern era. I would argue Hickman has used her fairly well in most instances with a few notable exceptions.

I'd prefer Scott and Jean as friends and not lovers, but it is what it is and I hope being paired together ends up being good for both characters. I hope we see Jean as a forceful and capable leader going forward. Maybe we'll get the version of Jean we expect when Hickman focuses more on her and Scott once they form the new X-Men team. We can hope!

I'm still taking a wait and see with Hickman on his use of Jean Grey. I do think he sees the character differently than we do.. but that makes sense because we are hardcore fans and he is writer that is doing a lot of world building. Some of his character moments have been done really well it is just that he's not doing much with Jean (thus far).

[SiegePerilous02]

Overall I am very happy with the direction Hickman has taken the X-books. It feels exciting, fresh, and there are so many x-titles... there is something for almost everyone. However I do agree that his Jean isn't the best. There have been some questionable moments but there has also been several good moments. I tend to focus on what I love. For Jean I loved that she was an OG member of the Quiet Council. I loved her being on the X-force team. Percy does great with her and maybe that will continue in some form. The team-up with Emma was great (the artist gets most of the credit it appears). The last issue of King in Black was great (despite the fainting but hey it is something telepaths tend to do so no biggie). So obviously some writers do see Jean as both a powerhouse and a capable leader. Duggan, Cates, and Percy have all used Jean well in the modern era. I would argue Hickman has used her fairly well in most instances with a few notable exceptions.

I'd prefer Scott and Jean as friends and not lovers, but it is what it is and I hope being paired together ends up being good for both characters. I hope we see Jean as a forceful and capable leader going forward. Maybe we'll get the version of Jean we expect when Hickman focuses more on her and Scott once they form the new X-Men team. We can hope!

I'm still taking a wait and see with Hickman on his use of Jean Grey. I do think he sees the character differently than we do.. but that makes sense because we are hardcore fans and he is writer that is doing a lot of world building. Some of his character moments have been done really well it is just that he's not doing much with Jean (thus far).

Agreed. I'll be let down if he doesn't do more with Jean because I'd like every definitive X-run to have some major Jean/Phoenix moments.

If he doesn't though, he's not under obligation to make Jean the center of attention just because her appreciation thread wants her to be.

[Rang10]

The implication is there with this comparison



And there isn't really consistency among storylines with Hickman.

there is alot of consistency of his treatment for Jean

[MechaJeanix]

X men Red was a great opportunity to develop the pink form ... But ... Forgotten

For me it is striking that we have had a few examples of Scott being impacted by the development of Teen Scott.. like Scott recognizing his role as a Champion and the friends he made being on that team. But for Jean some of her development from Teen Jean just kind of disappeared. However besides her growing powers one of the main themes of Teen Jean was her stepping more into a leadership role. Adult Jean Grey came back and was a leader even before acquiring the memories/experiences of Teen Jean. Adult Jean has been in leadership roles before (the Eve of Destruction team, being acting headmistress of Xaviers, heck there were times in X-factor or even during the X-Men Gold Team Jean came across as a leader when Scott or Ororo weren't around). I think it is a good fit and progression for Jean to be an X-Men field leader.

I do think the "pink form" or using her tp/tk together (or combining them or whatever it was) should be used because it would set her apart from the other psychics. It gives her a boost so she can be a powerful tp/tk without being overpowered as she may be in "phoenix mode".

[andreikes]

For me it is striking that we have had a few examples of Scott being impacted by the development of Teen Scott.. like Scott recognizing his role as a Champion and the friends he made being on that team. But for Jean some of her development from Teen Jean just kind of disappeared. However besides her growing powers one of the main themes of Teen Jean was her stepping more into a leadership role. Adult Jean Grey came back and was a leader even before acquiring the memories/experiences of Teen Jean. Adult Jean has been in leadership roles before (the Eve of Destruction team, being acting headmistress of Xaviers, heck there were times in X-factor or even during the X-Men Gold Team Jean came across as a leader when Scott or Ororo weren't around). I think it is a good fit and progression for Jean to be an X-Men field leader.

I do think the "pink form" or using her tp/tk together (or combining them or whatever it was) should be used because it would set her apart from the other psychics. It gives her a boost so she can be a powerful tp/tk without being overpowered as she may be in "phoenix mode".

Yep, the pink form differentiates it from other psychics and makes it much stronger without needing an entity

[Rang10]

For me it is striking that we have had a few examples of Scott being impacted by the development of Teen Scott.. like Scott recognizing his role as a Champion and the friends he made being on that team. But for Jean some of her development from Teen Jean just kind of disappeared. However besides her growing powers one of the main themes of Teen Jean was her stepping more into a leadership role. Adult Jean Grey came back and was a leader even before acquiring the memories/experiences of Teen Jean. Adult Jean has been in leadership roles before (the Eve of Destruction team, being acting headmistress of Xaviers, heck there were times in X-factor or even during the X-Men Gold Team Jean came across as a leader when Scott or Ororo weren't around). I think it is a good fit and progression for Jean to be an X-Men field leader.

I do think the "pink form" or using her tp/tk together (or combining them or whatever it was) should be used because it would set her apart from the other psychics. It gives her a boost so she can be a powerful tp/tk without being overpowered as she may be in "phoenix mode".

Its absurd the difference between Jean and Scott treatment for the period they were teenagers. Scott still keep Champions stuff, meanwhile Jean kept nothing from Jeen;

[Havok83]

Its absurd the difference between Jean and Scott treatment for the period they were teenagers. Scott still keep Champions stuff, meanwhile Jean kept nothing from Jeen;

Thats not entirely true. Sina Grace acknowledged her time as a teenager and I feel she was able to deal with the symbiotes in KiB bc of her experience with them in Venomized

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

Jean doesn't see much development from Jeen because Jeen was depicted as powerful and confident.

Hix and JDW were not amused by her lol

[Rang10]

Thats not entirely true. Sina Grace acknowledged her time as a teenager and I feel she was able to deal with the symbiotes in KiB bc of her experience with them in Venomized

A gay writer that suffered from editorial interference and is not writing books right now. it is a exception

Cates isn't writing X-books and ot sure if he was referencing the Venomized

Jean doesn't see much development from Jeen because Jeen was depicted as powerful and confident.

Hix and JDW were not amused by her lol

I think this is the best explanation

[Havok83]

A gay writer that suffered from editorial interference and is not writing books right now. it is a exception

Cates isn't writing X-books and ot sure if he was referencing the Venomized

So? Champions isnt an X-book yet thats acknowledged for Scott

[Rang10]

So? Champions isnt an X-book yet thats acknowledged for Scott

Alright then, but the Sina grace was very small on C list book. I think that Cates could mention that venomized experience

[Vishop]

Funnily enough, while Tom Taylor is beloved by a lot of Jean fans, some Wonder Woman fans started a thread asking if he was misogynistic due to his writing of her in the Injustice comics. It all depends on who your favorite is in the end.

Honestly....... Wonder Woman has consistently been like that even more so from the beginning. Wonder Woman was created more as sexual fetish disguised as Children comics. Makes me sick thinking about it