Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2021

[Grinning Soul]

Super old sketch of Jean in a lightly modified version of her Red costume. I've been going through old sketchbooks and finding unfinished stuff like this. Sorry for the sideways, I'm no computer genius and don't know why it's doing that.

That's really good, Hizashi! Thanks for sharing! :)

[WallStreeter]

Probably, female heroes get treated better in the MCU. though I don't know if it will change comic Jean's situation because they don't do that much synergy anymore

The comics division reports to Feige. It’s why Hickman was allowed to remake Krakoa as a mutant homeland.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

Nothing wrong with thinking that a teenager version of yourself is your "purest" self? Something that represents better who you are than all the experiences you lived after?

Let's see (from the top of my head): together with Warren, Jean created X-Factor, learnt from it, made it work. She rescued mutants, taught and cared for them. She adopted a baby and raised it for a while. She got married, She went to the future and raised that baby until the boy was 12 years old. She started talking to politicians/giving interviews and representing mutant interests. She acted as the headmaster of the school. She led teams. She went to UN and propose something radically differently to change the world.

But, yes, being a teenage member of the original team is her true self. She truly feels this way and her mental health is doing great.

How is that for my "imagining"?

Now, are you going to reply with some actual arguments to support your opinion or are you going to pick of a word I used and take a jab at it?

That's the thing, Grinning Soul. They don't want the character to have those experiences (besides being married and having a baby).

60s Jean IS the pure Jean for these dudes. No cosmic destiny. No fearsome, scary powers. No fiery will. No motivation beyond admiration for the main character. Just the way Jean Grey should be!

[Grinning Soul]

That's the thing, Grinning Soul. They don't want the character to have those experiences (besides being married and having a baby).

60s Jean IS the pure Jean for these dudes. No cosmic destiny. No fearsome, scary powers. No fiery will. No motivation beyond admiration for the main character. Just the way Jean Grey should be!

I don't disagree with you, but let's go back a little bit. There are two issues here:

This is what was actually said in the interview:

"Jordan: Yeah. Just, I don’t think it sounds great. I mean, the reason she’s called Marvel Girl is because Jean doesn’t have a lot of great codenames. She has, as far as I’m aware of, three I can think of off the top of my head. The third one was just Jean Grey. Now that’s the easiest one to probably just go back to if we were going to change it. There’s Marvel Girl, obviously, which she was for many years, and then there’s Phoenix — and she’s not Phoenix right now. So that was the deliberate choice that was made. We are not going to the Phoenix well, that’s why she’s not dressed in her Phoenix costume, obviously.

And a secret: that’s why she’s dressed in this costume. This is the costume that she put on when she rejected the Phoenix."

And this what Devaishwarya said:

While that was the reason she wore it then, That's not the reason why she's wearing it, now.
Jean has obviously been over the Phoenix since X-Men Red to now. The dress symbolises a time when she was truly herself in body and mind and spirit. It represents Jean at her purest.

Now, I had already talked about why "this is the costume that she put on when she rejected the Phoenix." makes no sense. She used the costume at the end of DPS because it was the only one she had *at that point* that wasn't a group uniform or her Phoenix costume. She wanted to die as Jean Grey, the dress represented that *at that point*. It made sense *at that point*. But she didn't reject then Phoenix then.

After that, Devaishwarya brought in other aspects about the Marvel Girl costume.

So, just to be fair, these comments about Marvel Girl being Jean at her "purest" did not come from Marvel.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

I'd say their sentiment is the same as that phraseology. 60s Jean is pure, untouched, uncomplicated, doting, and crumbles to pieces when things get hard. Big emphasis on the uncomplicated part. Just perfect for the lead guy's love interest in a superhero comic.

What I can say for her is that she has yet to outright faint, the delicate thing. Lolol

[perdid06]

here some modification on the gala costume
Screen Shot 2021-03-17 at 18.25.56.jpg
JEANx3.jpg

[Grinning Soul]

I'd say their sentiment is the same as that phraseology. 60s Jean is pure, untouched, uncomplicated, doting, and crumbles to pieces when things get hard. Big emphasis on the uncomplicated part. Just perfect for the lead guy's love interest in a superhero comic.

What I can say for her is that she has yet to outright faint, the delicate thing. Lolol

I understand that. But I just wanted to point out that "officially" they didn't say that.

They talked about rejecting the Phoenix and how the Marvel Girl uniform represents that. Which, for the reasons I wrote in previous posts, doesn't make sense. And that points to the possibility that those creators didn't really stop to think for a minute if that idea actually reflected the character's history.

[Grinning Soul]

here some modification on the gala costume

Wow... thanks for sharing. I like the longer boots, but my favourite colour scheme/design was the one on the right. It looks really clean and chic.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

I understand that. But I just wanted to point out that "officially" they didn't say that.

They talked about rejecting the Phoenix and how the Marvel Girl uniform represents that. Which, for the reasons I wrote in previous posts, doesn't make sense. And that points to the possibility that those creators didn't really stop to think for a minute if that idea actually reflected the character's history.

She rejected the Phoenix in the MG dress in Matthew Rosenberg's "Phoenix Resurrection" from a couple years ago. That story was **** and it's no surprise that they are fans of it.

If you check out Phoenix Res, which I recommend that you don't, please don't pay any money for it.

[Grinning Soul]

She rejected the Phoenix in the MG dress in Matthew Rosenberg's "Phoenix Resurrection" from a couple years ago. That story was **** and it's no surprise that they are fans of it.

If you check out Phoenix Res, which I recommend that you don't, please don't pay any money for it.

I read it. But she wasn't wearing the dress as her choice. The clothes were changing as the Phoenix tried to convince her that Jean could choose whatever life she wanted and the force would be there with her. She just ends up wearing the Marvel Girl uniform at the end of the speech. But I could argue that the fact that Jean actually removes her mask means that she's rejecting that as well, especially when you consider what happens:

The uniform changes from Morrison's run to Marvel Girl's:

- Phoenix: Or we can simply go back to the way things were before any of this. We can forget any of this happened.

EDIT: She looks at the pictures of the X-men, clearly tempted.

Jean is removing the mask as she says:

- Jean: You don't understand. That's not how things are supposed to work.

The mask drops to the ground (Jean is not even holding it):

- Jean: You're trying to protect me from these things, but you can't. I'm supposed to feel pain. I'm supposed to know loss. And I need to be able to to do it on my own.

So judging by this story, her Marvel Girl dress does not represent her rejecting the Phoenix. By both her actions and words she was literally rejecting being put in that uniform if that represented going back to a time before all the pain (and growth) happened.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

I read it. But she wasn't wearing the dress as her choice. The clothes were changing as the Phoenix tried to convince her that Jean could choose whatever life she wanted and the force would be there with her. She just ends up wearing the Marvel Girl uniform at the end of the speech. But I could argue that the fact that Jean actually removes her mask means that she's rejecting that as well, especially when you consider what happens:

The uniform changes from Morrison's run to Marvel Girl's:

- Phoenix: Or we can simply go back to the way things were before any of this. We can forget any of this happened.

EDIT: She looks at the pictures of the X-men, clearly tempted.

Jean is removing the mask as she says:

- Jean: You don't understand. That's not how things are supposed to work.

The mask drops to the ground (Jean is not even holding it):

- Jean: You're trying to protect me from these things, but you can't. I'm supposed to feel pain. I'm supposed to know loss. And I need to be able to to do it on my own.

So judging by this story, her Marvel Girl dress does not represent her rejecting the Phoenix. By both her actions and words she was literally rejecting being put in that uniform if that represented going back to a time before all the pain (and growth) happened.

Not for our Jean-loving editor and head writer lol.

[Grinning Soul]

Not for our Jean-loving editor and head writer lol.

I really think he was talking about the DPS. And while it doesn't make sense to equate what happened then to Jean's present, at least, during the DPS story, wearing the Marvel Girl dress was Jean's choice.

And again: at that moment, it made sense that Jean would choose to wear it. But it wasn't because of rejecting the Phoenix. It was because she knew that one way or another she'd die, and she wanted to die as herself. That's the meaning of her choice back then.

[Devaishwarya]

Nothing wrong with thinking that a teenager version of yourself is your "purest" self? Something that represents better who you are than all the experiences you lived after?......But, yes, being a teenage member of the original team is her true self. She truly feel

No one and especially Jean, is negating all the growth she's had over the years as an X-Man and as a woman. Her decision has nothing to do with her mentally or emotionally resetting to her teenage self. I said nothing of the sort. "Pure" does not only equate to being young or virginal. It can also mean untainted, as in untainted by the PF and all the "darkness" that it brought to her life at the time.

It's not about the first time she wore the dress...but the last time/moment she wore the dress as herself "untainted" and uninfluenced by the PF. When she was only "Jean Grey", and not Phoenix or Dark Phoenix. In the panels below, from the AiPT interview which speak to that moment, she a grown woman. "I started as Marvel Girl, and that's how I'll finish" That is the pivotal moment to which JDW and HiX-Man are referring. And which speak to her life before the PF came in an complicated things. After which, as Jean, as truly herself, she sacrifices herself to save the Universe from the PF.
Jean Grey and Scott MG.jpg

[Phoenixx9]

here some modification on the gala costume
Screen Shot 2021-03-17 at 18.25.56.jpg
JEANx3.jpg

I really like the 2nd and 4th green ones!

[Grinning Soul]

No one and especially Jean, is negating all the growth she's had over the years as an X-Man and as a woman. Her decision has nothing to do with her mentally or emotionally resetting to her teenage self. I said nothing of the sort. "Pure" does not only equate to being young or virginal. It can also mean untainted, as in untainted by the PF and all the "darkness" that it brought to her life at the time.

It's not about the first time she wore the dress...but the last time/moment she wore the dress as herself "untainted" and uninfluenced by the PF. When she was only "Jean Grey", and not Phoenix or Dark Phoenix. In the panels below, from the AiPT interview which speak to that moment, she a grown woman. That is the moment to which they are referring. After which, she sacrifices herself to save the Universe from the PF.

I understand that they meant that moment as well. Not the Resurrection story.

The thing is, at that moment on those panels (at the end of the DPS), Jean has already been "tainted" by the Phoenix, as you put. She is, in fact, still carrying the force with her. So I'm suggesting that that's not the significance of the dress.

The significance of the dress, at that moment, is not about living as Jean Grey. It's about dying as Jean Grey (because she understands that's what is going to happen, one way or another). That dress, at that moment, represents her "truest self" because it's the only individual, non-Phoenix uniform she has had so far.

So I'll repeat my point: it doesn't make sense for her to choose the dress now, to represent who she is, her willing to *live* (not die) without the Phoenix. It doesn't make sense that she sees all the experiences she has lived in her rich life as "tainted" by the Phoenix.

Now, we can obviously, agree to disagree on that. So if you don't have anything else to add, I'd say let's do so?