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  1. #4681
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Soul View Post
    Exactly. Not everything should be open to interpretation otherwise you get a story of nothing.



    I don’t know. I’m feeling my patience is running low with the current status quo. It has to change a lot - and in a certain direction - to keep me interested.



    Yeah. But I think they’ll only keep using excuses to sell this Krakoan attitude as positive. It’s already started. Check Magneto’s comment of humanity being petulant.

    The thing is: in these books we never see the moderate humans' views. We only see the Krakoans, the corrupt humans and the bigoted ones.

    Come on… there are almost 8 billion humans on Earth.



    I think Nemesis is more jealous than freaking out. And I don’t think he matters outside Way of X book.



    But Pluto was a scientific re-classification because better instruments allowed us to detect more objects of similar size. So they came up with another definition for a planet and since Pluto doesn’t fill all the requirements, it was re-classified as a dwarf-planet. And it wasn’t even renamed.

    Whatever other instances fictional of real that happened before, doesn’t change that what they did was, at least, provocative. At least, because it was actually much more than that. Changing the name of the planet was the least important part and it was already provocative enough.



    I meant genocide of the humans, not the mutants. Just checking here: you got that, right?

    It feels like Moira is forcing humanity to unify against the mutants before they reach a certain technological level so they can actually be wiped out and the mutants can finally win.



    Unless the plan is to actually make the war start earlier…



    I actually want Kurt’s Way to be a failure. I don’t want this society to be successful. That doesn’t mean I want mutants to be exterminated either. But for the next step in the evolution of the species, they’re being very retrograde when it comes to tolerance. How is the island of Krakoan any different than a building that doesn’t allow inhabitants of a certain ethnicity? Some humans have been allowed to live in Krakoa, but could any human apply for citizenship or asylum? When you think about X-Men and FF, I wouldn’t say they can't.

    Do I want to see Scott telling Sue - back when Franklin was a thought as a mutant - that her son's life had more value and her daughter's? Hell no. I do hope it was the Krakoan spores he had snorted that made him think and say that.



    So, this is one of my problems with X-Men: Red. They never really explain what would be the mutant nation. But, for what I understood, it would be the a nation without a territory. Jean only wanted the mutants to have their own representation. She didn’t want them to live apart society or crate their own.



    Scott knew - probably because Jean was involved - that they were going to do something big. But, unless he was lying to Steve, I don’t think he knew much beyond that.

    As for what Jean knew… Well, she knew about the terraforming effort and she know it had to do with giving Arakko mutants a new home. But more than that? We just can’t tell at this moment.



    Yeah, but that’s the thing. Duggan said he re-wrote the Planet Size issue a couple of times. He could have easily edited what Magneto said about David, but not easily edited the art that showed Kurt raising his hand.

    By the time he started writing the issue, Way of X wasn’t been written yet. So, maybe that was the problem, you see?



    Can you see Genesis being happy about getting lazy in a peaceful place? I can’t. And I saw a giant sculpture of her on Mars already. If that’s not ominous I don’t know what is.



    Why do they need space? They had their island already. They didn’t need to have contact with anyone else if they didn’t want to.

    You could argue they need even more isolation, I guess. But what’s the difference now? Earth cities are still a portal away if Arakki mutants want to create trouble.

    No, it’s not about space or isolation. It’s about temptation. It’s about conquering. Mars will keep them distracted for a while as they expand, but it will not teach them to change their ways.
    Mutants have been shown to be able to use their powers to heal, to resurrect, to terraform an entire planet. Before all powerful mutants could do is destroy the world or the universe and still somehow always get killed by sentinels. It’s like they found kit save their friends even, but they found become totally evil and kill everyone. At that point you obviously had mentally ill, negative writers you could only write the most depressing and gloomy crap because of their own personal issues.

    Now I’m not saying mutants have to be perfect. But they expand their knowledge, base of operations, is wonderful.

  2. #4682
    Mighty Member Grinning Soul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMikey View Post
    LOL wow i didnt know that line was said about Jean. im freaking aobut bc in the narrative Beast says a similar line about someone's blood and that its nature is "atypical".

    Jean is an omega mutant with unlimited potential to be seen and portrayed. however there is exploration of potential "beyond" unlimited and what that looks like. its new grounds and new territory for what mutants (and other heroes and beings in general) can be. she doesn't want Jean in this area of "the Unknown" as she says she'd rather grant the spotlight to new/underrated heroes and let them this time carry the bulk of such narrative revealing these new power concepts, and new levels of power in general.
    I’m totally fine with it. Like I said, I don’t need to see Jean in this role again, though I wouldn’t mind seeing it if she wasn’t stuck in it.

    Quote Originally Posted by GMikey View Post
    To ride from what both you and Phoenixx9 said, my boss would do a bit of both for Jean. her moreover goal is to write what she deems a "relatable" character for Jean, so certain aspects of her personality is rewritten, and even given some idiocyncrasies to serve as personal vices to grant her character more depth. power wise, she definitely would expore what makes Jean powerful but also give her things to overcome in an internal sense. and create situations that "unlimited power" alone cant solve, so she'd rely on other things than just her powers alone.
    Now, this worries me to be honest. Jean doesn’t need more “depth”, in my opinion. She’s already very tridimensional and paradoxical in many aspects that actually make sense. She’s already very nuanced and complex. Having certain aspects of her personality “rewritten” is definitely something that I wouldn’t want to see.

    I do like situations in which power alone can’t be the solution, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by GMikey View Post
    my boss however, is much more of a fan of antiheroes and darker characters, and even the major focus character for the X-Men's new narrative, is most definitely very dark.
    I could guess that before I even got to this part.

    I often see this argument that heroic types are boring. Antiheroes are interesting.

    I think antiheroes are easier to write, so you end up with a bigger proportion of heroes who are boring. But heroes can be as complex and tridimensional as any anti-hero. And anti-heroes can be super plain and boring as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by GMikey View Post
    Even the Avengers' backstories are all very dark, and even partially disturbing in tone. Its an AWESOME, very intriguing, encompassing narrative set to explore many obscure characters of the MU and highlight severely underrated ones as well, alongside high-profile heroes too.
    There’s a difference between a dark character, a dark setting and a dark tone, right? You can have a very bright character in a very dark setting and still have a tone to the story that is inspiring and hopeful. An example of that would be the film Life is Beautiful.

    You get what I mean? Dark backstories don’t necessarily create a dark character. Dark characters can come from perfect life backgrounds.

    A dark setting doesn’t necessary lead to a dark story. And vice versa.

    In the end, it’s all about the tone, the approach the writer decides to give the story.

    Quote Originally Posted by GMikey View Post
    But these new "high concept" plots do revolve around her hero of choice, and for one VERY massive, existential plot device that is introduced, many have felt and suggested it should have been Jean. However boss says, "dark, gritty and chaotic" wouldn't work well for Jean's character (that is WITHOUT Dark Phoenix, just her on merit), and prefer her focus being one of leadership of the X-Men and many other mutants, rather than omniversal existentialism and identity crisis. I do feel like when ppl see this vers of Jean, they will embrace the vision my boss has :)
    “Dark, gritty and chaotic” could work wonders for Jean except if you’d need to have Jean transform into a character who is like that in their core. Then, indeed, it’s better to choose a different character.

    I’m always a bit reticent when a writer has a “vision” for a character, but I’m always willing to give it a fair shot to whatever has Jean in it. And if we’re not talking about 616 Jean, then I’m much less annoying. :D
    Last edited by Grinning Soul; 06-21-2021 at 03:21 PM.

  3. #4683
    Mighty Member Grinning Soul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WallStreeter View Post
    In Hindsight Endsong and Phoenix Resurrection are both garbage. Jean comes back from the dead and immediately everyone panics of Dark Phoenix no matter how many times Phoenix/Jean saved the day! How ridiculous!
    Well… that’s actually human nature, isn’t it? We tend to give much more weight to negative experiences than positive ones. And it makes sense since the negative experiences are the ones that trigger our self-preservation instinct.

    What is silly is that we rarely have the more rational characters expressing the fact that people are over-reacting.

    Quote Originally Posted by WallStreeter View Post
    And until Rosenberg bad different ideas for Phoenix resurrection, the editorial wanted to involve the Shi’a. Frankly the Shi’ar freaking out about Jean or Phoenix is just lame and it was ridiculous that they even kidnapped Jeen s d went after Hope. There are plenty of other beings that could Jack up the Shi’ar throne world of empire. Cassandra Nova did. Vulcan to an extent did.
    First things first, I don’t like it either.

    That being said, the way I understand it, the Phoenix and the M’Kraan Crystal are like a religious matter to a part of the Shi’ar and they are a huge empire with many different sub-factions that are very powerful on their own.

    In my opinion, what Bendis did was pretty similar to most of his run in the X-Men: lots of provocative stuff and very little content to support a meaningful story.

    Quote Originally Posted by WallStreeter View Post
    I think that’s why the X-office isn’t currently using the Phoenix. Probably when they think of new stories for her they will. But the X-Men’s cosmic connections need to be well developed beyond the Shi’ar. They’re doing a good job with terraforming Mars for Arrako, Otherworld, Amenth, Sword, the Brood.
    Like I said, the way the Phoenix has been written since Endsong has been so disappointing to me (or downright infuriating) that I prefer the force to stay as far as possible from Jean.

    Quote Originally Posted by WallStreeter View Post
    Mutants have been shown to be able to use their powers to heal, to resurrect, to terraform an entire planet. Before all powerful mutants could do is destroy the world or the universe and still somehow always get killed by sentinels. It’s like they found kit save their friends even, but they found become totally evil and kill everyone. At that point you obviously had mentally ill, negative writers you could only write the most depressing and gloomy crap because of their own personal issues.

    Now I’m not saying mutants have to be perfect. But they expand their knowledge, base of operations, is wonderful.
    Sorry, I didn’t really understand what you meant on the part in bold.

  4. #4684
    Mighty Member Grinning Soul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega_DCD View Post
    Yeah if they can't respect even the basic aspects of its own lore, then I'm glad Jean is away from the Phoenix.

    Jean is my preferred Phoenix host, and as far as Rachel goes, I view her as a beneficiary of Jean/Phoenix's (the merged being from UXM 101-136) redemption attempt. Jean/Phoenix's suicide shocked sense into it..but it still retained sentience borrowed from, and based on, Jean's soul. (IMO why it appears to Rachel as a golden energy version of Jean's form even when it could have appeared as anything) It felt guilt over what it caused and through Rachel, tried to atone. It felt protective and motherly over Rachel, and suppressed her memories of the horrors she endured as a hound.
    I totally agree with what you said about the relationship between Phoenix and Rachel.

    Still, when I read it… I just…. I don’t really like it. It feels off to me.

    And it’s really just my preference, but I like the Phoenix to an exuberant song, made of passion and beauty. Something that is unlimited, unbounded, untameable.

    It’s not my favourite, but I’m okay with the portrayal of the Phoenix with Rachel. Like a said, it started to be really bad in Endsong, in my opinion. And it just got worse and worse.

    Quote Originally Posted by Omega_DCD View Post
    But this sentient state without a host was not right and sustains itself taking from future if unborn, so it finally decides it must return back to its natural state, leaving Rachel with diminished access to the Force.

    That's where any Force-sentience should have ended.
    I don’t even think the anthropomorphic sentient state without a host should exist at all. I think the force should have answered to Rachel’s call because she is Jean's heir. Then, once bounded it could have had that relationship with her, being sentient in that anthropomorphic way.

    But once they became separate again? Go back to being a creature of passion and beauty, the multi-universe's song of creation and destruction, life and death, please.

  5. #4685
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Soul View Post
    WellÂ… thatÂ’s actually human nature, isnÂ’t it? We tend to give much more weight to negative experiences than positive ones. And it makes sense since the negative experiences are the ones that trigger our self-preservation instinct.

    What is silly is that we rarely have the more rational characters expressing the fact that people are over-reacting.



    First things first, I donÂ’t like it either.

    That being said, the way I understand it, the Phoenix and the MÂ’Kraan Crystal are like a religious matter to a part of the ShiÂ’ar and they are a huge empire with many different sub-factions that are very powerful on their own.

    In my opinion, what Bendis did was pretty similar to most of his run in the X-Men: lots of provocative stuff and very little content to support a meaningful story.



    Like I said, the way the Phoenix has been written since Endsong has been so disappointing to me (or downright infuriating) that I prefer the force to stay as far as possible from Jean.



    Sorry, I didnÂ’t really understand what you meant on the part in bold.
    My apologies. I should have proofread. Autocorrect on my IPhone does weird things. I was saying that all these all powerful mutants can blow up the universe but cannot save their friends, all because later writers were lazy and kept trying to rehash Dark Phoenix.

    IÂ’m happy to see both Jean and Hope along with other mutants helped bring life to a world instead of killing it off.

    Marvel and Fox got obsessed with repeating variations of DOFP (two futures in the films where the X-Men all die or w even three if you count the tv series Gifted). Dark Phoenix got done twice by Fox and it was an epic failure the second time.

    ThereÂ’s the garbage that was Endsong, Phoenix Resurrection, and AvX.

    The fact that people cannot be bothered to even talk to Jean before deciding her resurrection is going to result in Dark Phoenix was horrible overdone and includes the ShiÂ’ar kidnapping Jean.

    In the comics DOFP got overdone too. The original DOFP, the sequel involving the FF, the DOFP storyline in Excalibur, the rise of Bastion, the rounding up of mutants after the Scarlet WitchÂ’s decimation etc.

    Speaking of decimation, it lead to another DOFP event by Bastion. Then there was the aterricen must decimation. Then was another future where many X-Men died at war with the Inhumans and this was erased by Negasonic Warhead.

    The X-Men comics were no longer number one in sales, X-Men Apocalypse failed because of horrible writing and the constant need to have Magneto go back and forth between good and evil, and the Fox franchise failed spectacularly with Dark Phoenix and New Mutants.

    ItÂ’s obvious why Hickman was hired to reboot the franchise and come up with new stuff. The status quo of X-Men was failing horribly and if Marvel just tried to please X-fans on old stories it would run the X-Men out of business.

  6. #4686
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    In Xmen Red, she performed a molecular level TK surgery on Storm to remove the nannite from her brain. Someone with less skill and power could have killed her but Jean had the fine motor control to move something that small in a system as complex as the body
    That was a great power display...and one of my faves in recent times.
    We are MUTANT...One people. One tribe. One family...Planet Arakko, FOREVER!!!

  7. #4687
    Astonishing Member Askani's Flame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega_DCD View Post
    Yeah if they can't respect even the basic aspects of its own lore, then I'm glad Jean is away from the Phoenix.

    Jean is my preferred Phoenix host, and as far as Rachel goes, I view her as a beneficiary of Jean/Phoenix's (the merged being from UXM 101-136) redemption attempt. Jean/Phoenix's suicide shocked sense into it..but it still retained sentience borrowed from, and based on, Jean's soul. (IMO why it appears to Rachel as a golden energy version of Jean's form even when it could have appeared as anything) It felt guilt over what it caused and through Rachel, tried to atone. It felt protective and motherly over Rachel, and suppressed her memories of the horrors she endured as a hound. But this sentient state without a host was not right and sustains itself taking from future if unborn, so it finally decides it must return back to its natural state, leaving Rachel with diminished access to the Force.

    That's where any Force-sentience should have ended.
    I mean that's where it did end, with the sentience dissipating and leaving Rachel with sole ownership of it's power. Then the call was made to ship Rachel off to the the end of time (and out of the books), which meant the moniker and Force left with her. So they decided to give the name back to Jean, which is correct and natural. But While Jean didn't have access to the Force, Marvel left Malibu Comics play with it. And then decided with Morrison that the Phoenix needed to return and added a new mission and mythos to it. And the saga began anew of hosts and such.

  8. #4688
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega_DCD View Post
    I'm just speaking openly not in a debate manner :-)

    Jean's powers naturally lead to the Phoenix as they grow...it's her gift by right of her genetics(and her children) as stated by Death. Her ability to access it is an aspect of her mutation, hence Onslaught attempting to use her...and Sublime Beast using her blood. This is why she forcibly severed(or suspended at least) that connection because it limits her(push too far and it replaces her) and the Phoenix was being written as a selfish and manipulative hanger-on.(It having any sentience of its own in itself is a huge error on some writer's part)

    Right now she equaling and even surpassing feats she's done in NXM (pre issue #150) so I think she's in a decent-to-good position.
    She through the Sword station to space to Magneto, who out it in orbit. Yeah, that surpasses anything in NXM 150. It’s been awhile in X-Force, but we saw her atomize the plant men.

    I don’t know if she can yet use complex to fly in space.

    Well she suspended the connection because Dark Phoenix and X-Men freakouts have been fine to death. If the X-office can move beyond that crap she can restore it.
    Last edited by WallStreeter; 06-21-2021 at 05:17 PM.

  9. #4689
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    Quote Originally Posted by Askani's Flame View Post
    I mean that's where it did end, with the sentience dissipating and leaving Rachel with sole ownership of it's power. Then the call was made to ship Rachel off to the the end of time (and out of the books), which meant the moniker and Force left with her. So they decided to give the name back to Jean, which is correct and natural. But While Jean didn't have access to the Force, Marvel left Malibu Comics play with it. And then decided with Morrison that the Phoenix needed to return and added a new mission and mythos to it. And the saga began anew of hosts and such.
    They let the Phoenix go to Malibu to rehash Dark Phoenix stories. Meanwhile Jean, code named Phoenix was naturally developing her powers. Morrison picked that up and had her go full Phoenix but killed her off to pair Emma with Scott. Then we got the Endsong, Warsong, and AvX trash.

    The 90s rehashed a lot of 80s stuff and didn’t give as much in the way of new stuff. They at least made Emma into a hero and created Gen X. Oh, they gave us a few more characters who get used like Exodus and Upstats like Shinobi Shaw.
    Last edited by WallStreeter; 06-21-2021 at 05:25 PM.

  10. #4690
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    I think AvX was trash because Marcel really should have had Hope be Jean reincarnated. With that said, I felt they finally gave Hope useful purpose by making her a part of the five who resurrect mutants. Like she finally is a mutant messiah.

  11. #4691
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    Aside from what Dark Beast said, the Mike Carey villain said something similar when he copied Jean’s powers. Like he saw the world expanding before him, seeing things in fractals or something like that.

    That and Jean’s blood was telekintic godhood. How else would sublime beast inject himself with her blood and gain immense telekinesis?

  12. #4692
    Astonishing Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    I donÂ’t know. IÂ’m feeling my patience is running low with the current status quo. It has to change a lot - and in a certain direction - to keep me interested.
    Then a break may be a good idea, Hickman has plans for at least three year of stories but the good news is that after that he mostly tries to leave the franchise with some new elements so other writers can built from there.


    Yeah. But I think theyÂ’ll only keep using excuses to sell this Krakoan attitude as positive. ItÂ’s already started. Check MagnetoÂ’s comment of humanity being petulant.

    The thing is: in these books we never see the moderate humans' views. We only see the Krakoans, the corrupt humans and the bigoted ones.

    Come onÂ… there are almost 8 billion humans on Earth.
    I agree that´s why I think it would be good for this run to show more nuanced and neutral povs otherwise it looks unrealistic

    I think Nemesis is more jealous than freaking out. And I donÂ’t think he matters outside Way of X book.
    I used to think Excalibur would not have a big impact on this run but after X of Swords I think any of the current titles can impact the rest or even became a crossover because of the way they are working together and Onslaught and the bad mental state of Krakoa´s mutants is big enough to warrant repercussions on other parts of the current run and Spurrier said he and Hickman have been doing some work together so yes, Way of X is definitely going to impact the current run.

    But Pluto was a scientific re-classification because better instruments allowed us to detect more objects of similar size. So they came up with another definition for a planet, doesn’t change that what they did was, at least, provocative. At least, because it was actually much more than that. Changing the name of the planet was the least important part and it was already provocative enough
    It as flexing on a big scale which they may believe is good to keep Orchis from wanting to attack but they are allienating their allies and it´s definitely something they need to address.


    I meant genocide of the humans, not the mutants. Just checking here: you got that, right?
    It feels like Moira is forcing humanity to unify against the mutants before they reach a certain technological level so they can actually be wiped out and the mutants can finally win.
    You talked about people wanting to join Orchis because of this, Orchis wants to do a genocide of mutants, they have not hidden this at any point, that´s why I say no action really warrants this kind of response for much flexing the mutants do so I really don´t see other human groups joining with them for this reason alone, because again, they are not like Orchis.

    I will see what Moira really meant when she said "mutants always lose" but the thing is that during all her lifes she either keep an anti-mutant perspective, a coexistence perspective and an anti-human perspective, in all her lives she really has not made a priority to unify humanity(mutants and humans in the same place) because this has been proven almost impossible to do but the interesting thing is that her current mission involves something Nimrod and the Librarian, her enemies asked of her, to save Earth from the Phalanx so while I am sure Moira kept some things from Charles and Magneto, she doesn´t meant to do an attack humanity.



    Unless the plan is to actually make the war start earlierÂ…
    Their plan is to stop any kind of War from starting in the first place, how well they are going around doing that could be argued but their main interest is to stop the war from starting.

    I actually want KurtÂ’s Way to be a failure. I donÂ’t want this society to be successful. That doesnÂ’t mean I want mutants to be exterminated either. But for the next step in the evolution of the species, theyÂ’re being very retrograde when it comes to tolerance. How is the island of Krakoan any different than a building that doesnÂ’t allow inhabitants of a certain ethnicity? Some humans have been allowed to live in Krakoa, but could any human apply for citizenship or asylum? When you think about X-Men and FF, I wouldnÂ’t say they can't.
    Magneto already developed a sanctuary for humans on Island M, it was neccesary because King in Black was killing everybody but I get your point about them still wanting just mutants to life on the main Krakoa island thats´s why I want Kurt to be succesful, Kurt´s way is supposed to be a response to an entity that´s making mutants show their worst sentiments of revenge, anger and hate so if he´s succeful I am sure they will go addresing the wrong they themselves have been doing and how quickly they have changed their perspective and this would allow them to finally heal those feelings of anger and helpleness and make something positive out of it.

    Do I want to see Scott telling Sue - back when Franklin was a thought as a mutant - that her son's life had more value and her daughter's? Hell no. I do hope it was the Krakoan spores he had snorted that made him think and say that.
    To be fair that´s what Sue made of it and a not a lot of fans liked the characterization of both groups in that crossover, the X-men were just hateful and the FF4 keep feeling they had the right to attack them on their home just because they suspected them of kidnaping it was the classic lest make our characters OC so they fight like AvX.

    So, this is one of my problems with X-Men: Red. They never really explain what would be the mutant nation. But, for what I understood, it would be the a nation without a territory. Jean only wanted the mutants to have their own representation. She didnÂ’t want them to live apart society or crate their own.
    If she wanted them to have their own representation and make deals with Namor to have a place underseas then she wanted to built a country there´s no getting around this, the only difference is the tone in which she said this but what she wanted to do was not much different than Cyclops Utopia, Genosha or Krakoa and this is why I am not agaist them having their own place on principle because it makes sense, what´s not neccesary is for them to keep themselves appart from the rest of the world. Curiously from all those countries the only one that had a mixed human and mutant population was Genosha so it would be nice to see if they try this again, especially since it´s canon mutants also can have human babies and they can´t just built a context in which those children would feel isolated because of the way they were born,it´s also the problem I have with Hickman´s current run, it doesn´t make sense for all of them to be mutants and for no human to be born already on the island, it contradicts the traditional canon and on this instance this canon would add some needed nuance to the story.


    Scott knew - probably because Jean was involved - that they were going to do something big. But, unless he was lying to Steve, I donÂ’t think he knew much beyond that.
    Still he wasn´t surprised when he asked Steve what he thought about it, same with Illyana and Dr Strange so they already knew.

    As for what Jean knewÂ… Well, she knew about the terraforming effort and she know it had to do with giving Arakko mutants a new home. But more than that? We just canÂ’t tell at this moment.
    I think we will see more of her pov on X-men #1 that´s why I didn´t like her and Storm not talking on Planet Size it would have helped to give us what are they really thinking.

    Yeah, but thatÂ’s the thing. Duggan said he re-wrote the Planet Size issue a couple of times. He could have easily edited what Magneto said about David, but not easily edited the art that showed Kurt raising his hand.

    By the time he started writing the issue, Way of X wasn’t been written yet. So, maybe that was the problem, you see?
    Way of X was already planned before the pandemic and it was pushed back for a few months until they saw it´s chance after X of Swords, writers usually plance ahead their storylines and get in contact with the artist often so I think they have time to talk things out and I liked to see Spurrier raising the same points I had problem on the current run so my guess is that he will address them in a fair way.

    Can you see Genesis being happy about getting lazy in a peaceful place? I canÂ’t. And I saw a giant sculpture of her on Mars already. If thatÂ’s not ominous I donÂ’t know what is.
    Yes I think they are saying to us were the next crossover will happen but at least it will begin on Mars so the rest of humanity would be safe at the beggining. I really don´t want X of Swords part 2 but I think we will see it, still they make some way in getting a good relationship and the respect of the mutants from Arakko and that´s also a good thing. Now if they just did the same with the rest of humanity it would be nice but I suspect that´s what the new X-men team is for.

    Why do they need space? They had their island already. They didn’t need to have contact with anyone else if they didn’t want to.

    You could argue they need even more isolation, I guess. But what’s the difference now? Earth cities are still a portal away if Arakki mutants want to create trouble.

    No, itÂ’s not about space or isolation. It’s about temptation. It’s about conquering. Mars will keep them distracted for a while as they expand, but it will not teach them to change their ways.

    No, only them can teach themselves to change their ways, no one else can do it for them and after thounsand of years of fighting away demons, first to protect earth and later to protect themselves I could see some of them wanting peace while others keep wanting war, just like everyother person, they are not a monolith in which everybody agrees with everything.
    Last edited by Lucyinthesky; 06-21-2021 at 08:09 PM.
    what is man that you are mindful of him,
    and the son of man that you care for him? Psalm 8

  13. #4693
    Astonishing Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WallStreeter View Post
    I think AvX was trash because Marcel really should have had Hope be Jean reincarnated. With that said, I felt they finally gave Hope useful purpose by making her a part of the five who resurrect mutants. Like she finally is a mutant messiah.
    I believe this was Mike Carey´s original idea but later they changed their mind and made Hope an original character and also changed the third part of the Messiah trilogy to add the Avengers to the story.
    Last edited by Lucyinthesky; 06-21-2021 at 08:09 PM.
    what is man that you are mindful of him,
    and the son of man that you care for him? Psalm 8

  14. #4694
    Smart & Swift & Violent Kitty&Piotr<3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tank View Post
    Aside from what Dark Beast said, the Mike Carey villain said something similar when he copied Jean’s powers. Like he saw the world expanding before him, seeing things in fractals or something like that.

    That and Jean’s blood was telekintic godhood. How else would sublime beast inject himself with her blood and gain immense telekinesis?
    Sometimes writers undo canon that bolsters characters they don't like. Jean does not have telekinetic godhood or a special connection to the Phoenix or anything like that. All of that was a distraction from what should be the sole purpose of her character.
    "Cyclops loves wilted roses because they remind him of dead redheads."
    -Gail

  15. #4695
    Fantastic Member Omega_DCD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Askani's Flame View Post
    I mean that's where it did end, with the sentience dissipating and leaving Rachel with sole ownership of it's power. Then the call was made to ship Rachel off to the the end of time (and out of the books), which meant the moniker and Force left with her. So they decided to give the name back to Jean, which is correct and natural. But While Jean didn't have access to the Force, Marvel left Malibu Comics play with it. And then decided with Morrison that the Phoenix needed to return and added a new mission and mythos to it. And the saga began anew of hosts and such.
    Not really because what prompted AvX to begin with was it acting on its own accord destroying planets its way to Earth and freaking out the Avengers...later on it starts tormenting teen Jean, eventually "killing" her, and also tries to manipulate adult Jean with her dead family and dead Scott Summers before being told to kick rocks

    Not counting whatever other stuff it was doing in Thor, Thanos with Thane, and that 1,000,000 B.C. Avengers stuff because I tend to stay away from those non X-related bastardizations.

    *Side-rant* While I don't mind Rachel's time as Phoenix, I really hate that Alan Davis saw fit to muck around and strip Jean of having being the one to give the Phoenix its firebird image(hinted at in Claremont's Classic X-Men backup stories), or even being the first mind to touch it and give it sentience...and for what? A nothing character like Feron and his even more nothing descendant? It also takes away from it being a (uniquely) Grey/bloodline thing, or even a mutant psychic thing...just some mystic and his evil teacher (Necrom) who ends up stealing a piece of the Phoenix and creating an anti-Phoenix(why? What is that exactly? The Phoenix already has an inherent dual nature). Ugh...and it all went downhill from there

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