Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2021

[loke13]

where do you see that?

In the preview thread.

[loke13]

I love the unique power signatures some of the group has got.

[Grinning Soul]

I like that Jean is carrying Cyclops with her TK lmao

Genuinely curious: why is it funny to you, loke?

She's done that countless of times. I actually wish she was holding his hand while tk-flying, à la X-Factor. But maybe nowadays someone would write a long article about how anti-feminist it is for a woman to hold her husband's hand.

Ugh.

Yeah. I'm cranky. I'm old. I get to be cranky. :P

Best thing about getting old: I was born cranky, I can finally use my age as an excuse! :D

[Grinning Soul]

Thank you for the warm welcome! Though you don't use Twitter, I hope you will still check out my thread dedicated to the development of Jean's powers; you don't need an account to do so.

I did check it out briefly, actually. But I'm writing this huge post for Scott and Jean's appreciation thread, while being a bit busy with real life. I'll go back to it when I have more time, though. I just won't be able to comment there. :)

So much to unpack with your post. Let's get to it. :)

You have brought up some good points. Regarding Claremont, I love him - he is one of my favorite X-Men writers, if not my favorite - but I think he referred to her as the "weakest" member of the team so that her drastic transformation into Phoenix would be underscored and even more dramatic. (...)I think it would have been just as effective if Claremont had referred to her as once being the most inexperienced member of the team, which would have been accurate since, as you point out, she was the last member to join.

I agree: "inexperienced" would have been a better description, but not a better contrast, because while becoming the Phoenix didn't improve her experience right away, it did increase her power (at that time).

And another thing to consider is that this is not a line from an impartial narrator. It was part of Scott's thoughts, as he was marveled/astounded/concerned by her power. Do we always think using the most accurate term possible? I guess not.

I don't know, it sounds organic to me. So, yeah, after an initial negative reaction, I came to be okay with that line.

The fact of the matter is, she was the first team member that Professor X trusted to divulge his secret plans to, and, as a result, she was the first member he entrusted with a true leadership role.

I think, in a way, Charles understood that Jean was more mature and, more than that, he knew her well enough to be aware that, despite the fact she doesn't like secrets, she understands the necessity of them.

The way I see it, he would have wanted both Scott and Jean to be his heirs. While Scott's field leadership is only matched by few people, Jean's flexible thinking and diplomatic inclinations are on a league of her own.

Despite his wishes, I think we should give it to Charles, though: people love to throw him under the bus, but he never stopped the O5 from leaving the team and pursuing their college aspirations.

Nonetheless, the number of telekinetic feats she accomplished during the X-Men's first 66-issue run is astonishing.

I know! I'm of the opinion that Jean doesn't need the Phoenix for anything. She's an Omega psychic who is only limited by herself.

Seriously: you don't need to convince me! :D

- Overpowering Mastermind (I find this one ironic, considering their later history).

Just an observation: I'm sure you know (but who knows who is reading this post?), later-history-Mastermind was powered by a machine created by Emma Frost.

Of course, there are more feats to list, and I've only covered those found in the first 42 issues before developing her telepathic powers. This brings me to another point: She first revealed that she "trained" with Professor X, whom she said "developed" her telepathy. However, she made no mention of him "giving" her a portion of his powers. Additionally, the first major contradiction of her strength as a telekinetic was in issue #57, where they have her admitting that "it's easier for [her] to control things from a closer range," which was not the case in the preceding issues. She is even depicted completing housework with her powers, which was a bit infuriating to read, especially coming from a female writer and after having witnessed all she had accomplished in the preceding issues.

I know. It's infuriating, but it's part of reading comics books. You'll find those inconsistences about every aspect of every character you can imagine. :/

That's why I'm the annoying one here who plays devil's advocate when we discuss Jean's powers during this run, even though I am of the opinion that she's as Omega as it gets when it comes to everything related to psyonic powers.

The thing is: my opinion doesn't matter. We have to try to understand under what premises the current writers are working so we don't get too disappointed, because power levels will never be consistent, unfortunately.

Still, this retrospective project has been validating for me as a longtime Jean fan. I had read many of these issues years ago but had completely forgotten how adept and formidable she was so early on in her comic book "career." This brings me to the Phoenix Force (P.F.). While I love the depth and complexity the P.F. brought to Jean's characterization, I also think it overshadowed her innate abilities as written before it was integrated into her story. Thankfully, throughout the years, the writers have made it a point of emphasizing that the P.F. chose Jean because of her limitless power and potential. This highlights the fact that the P.F. didn't so much imbue her with power as much as use the power she already possessed.

Like I just wrote the other day: Phoenix just boosts Jean's power/confidence. It doesn't really add much to her power other than a cool fiery effect.

Part of me wants the P.F. to be established as being inextricably tied to and most efficiently used by her. However, another part of me hopes the creators will begin to showcase her boundless capabilities without the P.F. being a factor.

If you do read all the messages, you'll get to the ones where I talk about it. In my opinion, the concept of the Phoenix has only deteriorated since the DPS. CC himself started the process.

And since we don't have that cool stuff anymore, I just don't think the Phoenix adds anything to Jean other than a cool fiery effect... So, now that they completely destroyed the portrayal of the Force, I really don't want that chicken anywhere near Jean.

Now, that's not to say that I wouldn't want it, in theory, that Marvel saved the concept so we could see Jean doing some cosmic work with the Force. But I just don't trust they would do it well.

Though Duggan has received rightful criticism for his response to Jean fans online a few weeks ago, I must admit, I have been impressed with what he has written for her thus far. She played a pivotal and exciting role in Planet Size X-Men #1, and her feat in Cable #12 this week was both surprising and impressive. He has also admitted that he spotlights her and her abilities in X-Men #2, giving her some "really cool things" to do, so I am cautiously optimistic that he will be utilizing her in a way that she has not been in over a year. (Recently, when I asked him on Twitter how he felt about Jean as a character, his answer was typically cryptic. "Ask me that question in a year," he responded.)

Yeah: cautiously optmistic is how I'd decribe my current feeling about the X-book too. Which, you know, is already an improvement.

I'm super ready to eat some crow. With pineapple! :P

Anyway, thank you for your thoughtful reply. I look forward to discoursing with such well-informed and intelligent Jean fans. By the way, reading through this thread is not a chore at all! You all have had some great thoughts, opinions, and facts unknown to me to share. Thank you!

My pleasure! I love discussing things with other fans too, as long as people keep it in a respectful tone. I love when we agree and I also love when we disagree. I always find it enriching, even if it doesn't change my mind or if it only partially changes. :)

There is so much I don't know or don't remember as well. It always impresses me when other fans share their stuff here! It's really cool! And I think you're a great addition to the team!

I have the feeling you'll be one of the loremasters I'll be referring to very soon. And it's great because Havok83 and Harpsikord need vacations from time to time! :D

[Omega_DCD]

60s Jean? Don't mind if I do

I love how she casually negates Mesmero's hold on Iceman

[Omega_DCD]

Impressive fine motor TK control and multitasking, tracking an electronic brain, and long range telepathy with multiple spread out persons, and without Cerebro

[loke13]

Genuinely curious: why is it funny to you, loke?

She's done that countless of times. I actually wish she was holding his hand while tk-flying, à la X-Factor. But maybe nowadays someone would write a long article about how anti-feminist it is for a woman to hold her husband's hand.

Ugh.

Yeah. I'm cranky. I'm old. I get to be cranky. :P

Best thing about getting old: I was born cranky, I can finally use my age as an excuse!

Because I find it funny that Jean is carrying her husband especially since hes one of two memebers of the team who can't fly. Any other questions?

[Omega_DCD]

A bit of psychometric telepathy and the first official (and pre-Phoenix) hint of what would be later called Jean's Omega level potential

[Grinning Soul]

Because I find it funny that Jean is carrying her husband especially since hes one of two memebers of the team who can't fly. Any other questions?

Nope. Sorry, I didn't mean to annoy you. I was genuinely curious because her carrying him around is nothing new, so I didn't know if you spotted something funny that I didn't.

The rest of the comment was general crankiness and not aimed at you at all. Sorry about that.

[loke13]

Nope. Sorry, I didn't mean to annoy you. I was genuinely curious because her carrying him around is nothing new, so I didn't know if you spotted something funny that I didn't.

The rest of the comment was general crankiness and not aimed at you at all. Sorry about that.

No worries I'm a little tipsy didn't mean to come off as agressive lol I'm actually glad we're getting Jean using her TP and TK right out the gate. Bodes well for future issues personally.

[Phoenixx9]

60s Jean? Don't mind if I do

I love how she casually negates Mesmero's hold on Iceman

I love Jean takin' it to Mesmero! She did the same with Wanda much earlier on, but she is even more fearsome here! With her hands/arms up, it seems a foreshadow to early Phoenix appearances when Jean did the same thing!

[Phoenixx9]

A bit of psychometric telepathy and the first official (and pre-Phoenix) hint of what would be later called Jean's Omega level potential

It states Jean has infinite mental powers!

Yes, I totally agree!

[Daedra]

It states Jean has infinite mental powers!

Yes, I totally agree!

I wonder if some of the oldest readers here remember the expression “psychic rainbow”

[Grinning Soul]

No worries I'm a little tipsy didn't mean to come off as agressive lol I'm actually glad we're getting Jean using her TP and TK right out the gate. Bodes well for future issues personally.

Lack of intonation is annoying! I'm relieved you didn't get upset. No worries, then! :)

I'm glad she's using both powers too. Tp is awesome and you can get so creative with it. And tk is visually so appealing! I'm super glad our girl has both powers in her arsenal. :)

[Grinning Soul]

Omega_DCD, my friend, you spoil me!

Now I don't think I have to defend that Jean was awesome even in the 60s (even with the strains and faints and other of those eye-rolling stuff that is typical of the time).

Thanks for much for sharing! :)