Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2021

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

Aw, thanks for adding those pages, Starchilde!

For those interested, yesterday, @ClaremontRun tweeted an excellent thread, opening with the observation:



https://mobile.twitter.com/Claremont...52761285922820

It’s a must read!

Will check this out in a bit. Love that opening.

For all that Jean could and should be regarded as a feminist character, she has been one to suffer the most from misdirected masculine energy, whether it was banning her from existence so she can't move on absent Cyclops, stripping her of her powers that were given specifically to equalize her with the most powerful men in comics, or making her wear a dress on a black ops/spy squad.

She gets the brunt of toxic masculinity story choices.

[MechaJeanix]

I'm a fan of the Claremont Run twitter page. They usually post interesting things to think about. The recent Jean post is good because it does show an aspect of Jean's character. All too many times some fans hate on Jean for her reaction to Rachel, her thoughts about Maddie, etc. Some ignore the impact of both Rachel and Maddie on Jean. Jean experienced a lot of trauma even with the retcon - you have a merger with Phoenix, memories that she rejected, the cocoon fiasco, finding out about the Phoenix, Maddie, and later Rachel who has bonded with the Phoenix. So many of her incarnations loved Scott and she felt pushed into a certain direction.

Teen Jean had a similar story as she felt she was destined to become the Phoenix and die and she wanted to forge her own destiny/future instead of being trapped by fate.

Back in the X-factor years I understood why Jean turned Scott's proposal down or why she reacted to Rachel like she did. I think sometimes we forget there were explanations to why Jean reacted the way she did and those reasons made sense.

[Mercury]

...her thoughts about Maddie...

What bothers me most about people judging Jean for her reaction to Madelyne after she left Scott and during Inferno is that Jean was actually very considerate, respectful, and even protective of Madelyne when she first found out about her.

From X-Factor #8:

[PyroFN]

Hearing (or reading) that kind of stuff boils my blood. Many times I was told that I was "just projecting" when I was pointing something about a female character. It happpens so often. Your perspective is valid as is important, Grinning Soul.

That is a lack of empathy or compassion that I am not okay with. Typical Internet willing to argue their points without listening to the other side.

[Mercury]

Jean really loved her family. And to think they were all slaughtered

The other day one guy of an X-Men group I was part of, asked if Gailyn and Joey could be resurrected by The Five since they had the X-Gene. I was reflecting on the implications of that. Because, how do you resurrect these little kids and then explain to them that they were allowed a privilege the rest of their family can't have? considering they died in the same conditions. I think that Jean and possibly Rachel wouldn't want to do that to Gailyn and Joey.

I just saw your post. I really wish they would address this with BOTH Jean and Rachel. It could make for an extremely poignant story.

[Starchilde]

I just saw your post. I really wish they would address this with BOTH Jean and Rachel. It could make for an extremely poignant story.

It would definitely be an interesting and poignant story. It needs a writer who is a huge fan of both of them, but who also wants to invest in their relationship and not treat them as strangers. I don't have much hope for something like that to happen, but I still don't lose it. We can always dream!

[MechaJeanix]

We should be able to say that we are women if we want to talk about our personal insight, as women, in a post that was discussing women's issues (Claremont Run thread). I don't see the problem in mentioning our own gender. After all, these are our personal thoughts and if we want to intersect them with our own experiences is totally fine.

I completely agree. I think the more perspectives the better. Too often comics (the industry and the fandom) can be full of some toxic masculinity that tries to push out those who aren't cis-male dude bros. We definitely want an inviting culture in our fandom that encourages discussion and contributions from folks of varying identities.

Our identities are important and that includes gender, sexuality, race and ethnicity among so many others. Many of us in the past have shared our sex, gender, and sexuality. We should feel comfortable doing so and it should be welcomed and ok to do so imo.

[Micabe]

It would definitely be an interesting and poignant story. It needs a writer who is a huge fan of both of them, but who also wants to invest in their relationship and not treat them as strangers. I don't have much hope for something like that to happen, but I still don't lose it. We can always dream!

Now that you mention it... I wonder how old the Frostitute's were when they met Emma and why she (Emma) wasn't written giving the same 'tude to the Five-in One like they wrote Jean's feelings towards Rachel when they first met?

[davetvs]

Now that you mention it... I wonder how old the Frostitute's were when they met Emma and why she (Emma) wasn't written giving the same 'tude to the Five-in One like they wrote Jean's feelings towards Rachel when they first met?

Emma is a narcissist, and the Cuckoos are mini versions of her. There's no reason she'd dislike them. They also weren't initially presented to her as "daughters" so there was no familial baggage to manage in the relationship.

[Devaishwarya]

I'm a fan of the Claremont Run twitter page. They usually post interesting things to think about. The recent Jean post is good because it does show an aspect of Jean's character. All too many times some fans hate on Jean for her reaction to Rachel, her thoughts about Maddie, etc. Some ignore the impact of both Rachel and Maddie on Jean. Jean experienced a lot of trauma even with the retcon - you have a merger with Phoenix, memories that she rejected, the cocoon fiasco, finding out about the Phoenix, Maddie, and later Rachel who has bonded with the Phoenix. So many of her incarnations loved Scott and she felt pushed into a certain direction.

Teen Jean had a similar story as she felt she was destined to become the Phoenix and die and she wanted to forge her own destiny/future instead of being trapped by fate.

Back in the X-factor years I understood why Jean turned Scott's proposal down or why she reacted to Rachel like she did. I think sometimes we forget there were explanations to why Jean reacted the way she did and those reasons made sense.

Exactatiously absolutely.

[Devaishwarya]

It would definitely be an interesting and poignant story. It needs a writer who is a huge fan of both of them, but who also wants to invest in their relationship and not treat them as strangers. I don't have much hope for something like that to happen, but I still don't lose it. We can always dream!

But that's already been done...by several writers. Perhaps not as you want it to be written but it has been written. They're aren't strangers in the books. They just don't interact (because writers just aren't interested in rehashing that story as it serves no purpose to either characters or the plots) which is an entirely different thing.

[Mercury]

But that's already been done...by several writers. Perhaps not as you want it to be written but it has been written. They're aren't strangers in the books. They just don't interact (because writers just aren't interested in rehashing that story as it serves no purpose to either characters or the plots) which is an entirely different thing.

When and where have writers addressed adult Jean's feelings regarding the murder of her family? I know she dealt with it (briefly) as a time-displaced teenager, which resulted in her fight with Gladiator:

[Exodus]

When and where have writers addressed adult Jean's feelings regarding the murder of her family? I know she dealt with it (briefly) as a time-displaced teenager, which resulted in her fight with Gladiator:

I just love the Pink Phoenix. Can we please please please, pretty please, get the pink Phoenix as her regular Psy power signature?

[Devaishwarya]

Since Jean now has all of Jeen's memories...

Again...that plot, as with the Jean and Rachel must bond! (which is what I was actually addressing), is only of interest to the readers. It doesn't fit in with the current direction or interests of the writers. And that's okies.

Maybe it could be one of those stories Claremont tells/addresses in X-Men Legends.

[Mercury]

Since Jean now has all of Jeen's memories...

This is a somewhat fair point.

Again...that plot, as with the Jean and Rachel must bond! (which is what I was actually addressing), is only of interest to the readers. It doesn't fit in with the current direction or interests of the writers. And that's okies.

It could easily be worked into a plot - I am certainly not implying writers should dedicate several issues to it - especially in the new book, in which Jean is a central character. It's an interesting and shocking enough story to generate immediate interest, methinks.