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  1. #7846
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitty&Piotr<3 View Post
    Let's look at this both functionally and as if the characters are actual people.

    Is every story with a slightly tenuous and tense situation going to work out well just because Jean says "there has to be another way"?

    Or do they just not use this character in any challenging stories?

    Is a real person going to look at revealing the only secret that keeps them safe and say that her personal pride is more important than that?

    Do they just take stories where Emma isn't conveniently there to save the day off the table for Jean?

    Good characters are more nuanced than "she's so nice that the story just goes her way".

    Let's take away the idea that nothing bad can happen because Jean is a happy character. Let's say that the Avengers are very altruistic and faithful toward mutants and don't intentionally reveal mutantkind's secret. What about accidents? That information accidentally getting to the wrong hands? Now that secret is out and it's essentially Jean's fault for not doing what needed to be done. Now that COULD be a good story in itself - Jean paying a high personal cost for exaggerated high-mindedness - but that's not what's happening here.

    Jean with this Saturday Morning Superman Cartoon hubris doesn't ring as true and actually isn't all that heroic. This goes back to her looking the other way when she knows about X-Force. It's not cute. It's not superheroic. It's just people being super precious about the Saint Jean thing.

    It's like she and Beast are at opposing cartoonish extremes right now. Where is the nuance?
    Thank you. Bravo!

    It comes off as selfish and at times hypocritical as well as inconsistent with her prior portrayals. I dont know why certain fans want Jean to come off like some pacifist saint that can do no wrong. She’s way more than that. A certain saga was based around her darker, almost babaric carnal desires. She’s crossed numerous lines before whether it be outright telepathically killing to completely mind wiping and rewriting personalities.

  2. #7847
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tank View Post
    True true. Not to mention if they didnt want to show the Avengers the hatchery, dont walk them through there! Amazing concept right? But it was ignored for the sake of some stupid exchanges.
    Fr, it's their island and it was a tour.They can do as many detours as they like, not like they have a specific destination and time limit.They also have multiple teleporters and portal gates that can be planted anywhere as well.This was so forced.

    And it's not like it lead to something big, like Tony's armor that wouldn't be affected by TP seeing the hatchery.It was for the sake of Emma supremacy and creating fake tension w/ no real reason or consequences.

  3. #7848
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderfan001 View Post
    Fr, it's their island and it was a tour.They can do as many detours as they like, not like they have a specific destination and time limit.They also have multiple teleporters and portal gates that can be planted anywhere as well.This was so forced.

    And it's not like it lead to something big, like Tony's armor that wouldn't be affected by TP seeing the hatchery.It was for the sake of Emma supremacy and creating fake tension w/ no real reason or consequences.
    It was all about boobs! Tony had to make comments about her assets, it was soooo clever. ::Rolls eyes til they fall out::

    For real though this was so forced and cringey. Especially since they’re there to investigate and pick up a dead teammate.

  4. #7849
    LET JEAN GREY BE FREE! Kitty&Piotr<3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderfan001 View Post
    That question is what Krakoa lacks, I'd rather Jean question everything saying there has to be a better way than the other way around.
    I mean I'm ok with her making that call sometimes i.e. "No, we don't kill humans", but she still has to be able to look at a situation on an individual basis and act accordingly.

    I'm just saying, if the choice is using her powers in ways she has before when necessary or letting the world know about the location of the rez protocols, she has to be a more full, more real, more actualized character, as opposed to a caricature.
    "Yes, it was a kind of adultery, but at the same time Jean wasn't being his wife anymore. I just felt that the spark between them had died out and it was time to give Scott someone else."
    -Grant Morrison on how it was Jean's fault Scott cheated.

    "Cyclops loves wilted roses because they remind him of dead redheads."
    -Gail

  5. #7850
    Fantastic Member Starchilde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderfan001 View Post
    Fr, it's their island and it was a tour.They can do as many detours as they like, not like they have a specific destination and time limit.They also have multiple teleporters and portal gates that can be planted anywhere as well.This was so forced.

    And it's not like it lead to something big, like Tony's armor that wouldn't be affected by TP seeing the hatchery.It was for the sake of Emma supremacy and creating fake tension w/ no real reason or consequences.
    Tbh a lot of decisions in this comic are extremely nonsense. The Avengers arriving to Krakoa not asking questions or wanting to know more details seems so off. The X-Men taking the Avengers through the exact route to the Hatchery then panicking, when they could just took the Avengers to any other part on the island. Xavier deciding to go out for a walk or something, and letting Hope, who expressed distrust on him a moment before, guarding the unconscious Mags? nonsense, and he is a telepath, and much more profficient than Hope (who is not technically a telepath). The characters in general reminded me of NPCs in a videogame lol. There are a couple of panels that I liked a lot (like Jean and Ray doing the shields, they are my two faves), but the story as a whole feels messy.
    Last edited by Starchilde; 09-16-2021 at 10:49 PM.

  6. #7851
    Jean Grey Scholar Mercury's Avatar
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    I simply don't have the energy for the negativity (you do understand), especially not with the goodies I was gifted with today. Posted some of these previously but it seems they got lost in the shuffle and a palette cleanser is indeed in order!

    From the preview of X-Men #3 that dropped today (her stoicism lately is giving me life):



    JP Pinto's latest portrait: Dark Phoenix. I wonder if this is going to be another group portrait. (This is the artist that recently completed his group portrait of what I am assuming are his favorite X-women. He released each character's portrait separately and bit by bit until the final piece was complete. He released Jean's portrait first and placed her at the center of his final piece, of course. See that portrait on the next page.):



    And, finally, there's also Marvel Studios and current "What If...?" character designer Amelia Vidal's wonderful little portrait of Jean... Is she giving us a hint of things to come?


  7. #7852
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    View the completed portrait here: https://screenrant.com/x-men-fan-art...roes-jp-pinto/

  8. #7853
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tank View Post
    It was all about boobs! Tony had to make comments about her assets, it was soooo clever. ::Rolls eyes til they fall out::

    For real though this was so forced and cringey. Especially since they’re there to investigate and pick up a dead teammate.
    No one is holding a gun to your head forcing you to buy!

  9. #7854
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    Obviously everyone is free to like whatever they want, and not like what they don’t like.

    I never understood the point of buying something you like. I think Aaron’s Avengers and Thor suck so I will not but despite liking those characters.

    I mean, why support something you think sucks? Why buy just to complain?

    And it’s absurd to moan over Jean in Trial of Magneto when she is only there as a supporting character.

  10. #7855
    Beware! Daedra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tank View Post
    It was all about boobs! Tony had to make comments about her assets, it was soooo clever. ::Rolls eyes til they fall out::

    For real though this was so forced and cringey. Especially since they’re there to investigate and pick up a dead teammate.
    That’s a very good point, it was totally weird and inappropriate considering they were there to investigate the SW murder
    Ommadon: “By summoning all the dark powers I will infest the spirit of man So that he uses his science and logic to destroy himself. Greed and avarice shall prevail, and those who do not hear my words shall pay the price. I'll teach man to use his machines, I'll show him what distorted science can give birth to. I'll teach him to fly like a fairy, and I'll give him the ultimate answer to all his science can ask. And the world will be free for my magic again.”

  11. #7856
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitty&Piotr<3 View Post
    I mean I'm ok with her making that call sometimes i.e. "No, we don't kill humans", but she still has to be able to look at a situation on an individual basis and act accordingly.

    I'm just saying, if the choice is using her powers in ways she has before when necessary or letting the world know about the location of the rez protocols, she has to be a more full, more real, more actualized character, as opposed to a caricature.
    Agreed, but she they talked about it for like 2 seconds.An in-character Jean would definitely do said mindwipe if necessary.The real crime is that
    1)Avengers weren't wearing TP shields
    2)They walked them to the hatchery
    3)They only started talking about it seconds before they reached there(I'm assuming that it was unavoidable, which it isn't but give them the benefit of the doubt)



    Quote Originally Posted by Starchilde View Post
    Tbh a lot of decisions in this comic are extremely nonsense. The Avengers arriving to Krakoa not asking questions or wanting to know more details seems so off. The X-Men taking the Avengers through the exact route to the Hatchery then panicking, when they could just took the Avengers to any other part on the island. Xavier deciding to go out for a walk or something, and letting Hope, who expressed distrust on him a moment before, guarding the unconscious Mags? nonsense, and he is a telepath, and much more profficient than Hope (who is not technically a telepath). The characters in general reminded me of NPCs in a videogame lol. There are a couple of panels that I liked a lot (like Jean and Ray doing the shields, they are my two faves), but the story as a whole feels messy.
    It's all OOC.I haven't seen something this OOC in a while.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daedra View Post
    That’s a very good point, it was totally weird and inappropriate considering they were there to investigate the SW murder
    Fr, they all seem so happy and joyful.Their normal interactions have more seriousness than this.And acting like trained Avengers would be distracted by that.Like Tony maybe, if you only write him on the surface level.If you know anything about Stark, he would be looking and examining Krakoa and would see through this in a heartbeat.Not to mention his suit which would not be affected by TP.
    Cap showed defenses that were far superior to quire, Jean could mask it if she had a bit of time.Emma ain't doing anything w/out him atleast feeling it.
    Wasp may fall for it.
    And TP doesn't work on Vision....
    Not to mention they would all be wearing Dampners(Tony wore them for the gala but doesn't for this?) and he on highly aware.Wanda, an Avenger was killed on Krakoan soil and they have motive.Now they are there as well, this is the perfect trap oppurtunity.Not like Avengers and X-men are buddies, even if they were and none of AvX happened they would still be aware.

  12. #7857
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    Wow, i did not realize the Jean/Emma moment on ToM got this discussion going.
    My take was, the minute Professor X mentioned that Jean and Emma had more urgent matters to attend to, that means Jean and Emma already has role to play in how to properly accommodate the visitors.
    1. The whole "there has to be another way" line, to me is sloppy and unnecessary. Jean could've just said, someone's already on top of it. Knowing a Jean/Emma exchange is no brainer.
    2. It seems like Polaris is the only one shocked that Emma figured it out. And Emma came prepared, it's not like she was startled with the "unexpected" visitors.
    3. Telepaths does not have to actively scan to know something is up, they sense it. Maybe Emma picked up on Lorna's concern, picked up on Cyclops offer to tour and they are about to reach the hatchery. Plus Jean is calm and not as concerned as Lorna, so she has to be aware that something is brewing, just not sure what.
    4. As for Vision, I read somewhere that Onslaught affected Vision, plus Telepathy has some frequency that vision has to identify to be able to negate it. So from what I've read, it seems he is susceptible to telepathy, but has to be a high level one, which Emma is one.

  13. #7858
    Jean Grey Scholar Mercury's Avatar
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    Jean's clone, Madelyne Pryor has been added:


  14. #7859
    Extraordinary Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercury View Post
    Jean's clone, Madelyne Pryor has been added:

    Love these looks!
    [Quote Originally Posted by Thor-El 10-15-2020 12:32 PM]


    "Jason Aaron should know there is already a winner of the Phoenix Force and his name is Phoenixx9."

  15. #7860
    Jean Grey Scholar Mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenixx9 View Post
    Love these looks!
    Jean's genetics, though...

    Remember that time Sinister revealed that Jean Grey is “Mutant Alpha” - “The first mutant. The mutant whose genetic code gave rise to us all"? Dark Phoenix and Madelyne Pryor are certainly two examples...




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