Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2021

[Gray Lensman]

Oh, Exodus, dear, please, no!

Would you really want Jean to be Nathan's adoptive daughter? That would make Jean her own adoptive gradmother!

I understand where you are coming from, but if they weren't going to do that, they should never have teased it on the first place. Or at least they should have made the reveal one way or another relevant to the plot somehow. Instead all they did was open a mystery box to reveal absolutely nothing inside.

[Exodus]

Oh, Exodus, dear, please, no!

Would you really want Jean to be Nathan's adoptive daughter? That would make Jean her own adoptive gradmother!

YES!!!!! I think that would have been a beautiful symmetry actually. Jean raised Cable in the future and now he did exactly the same for her: full circle Summers Grey family madness. I love it.

[Exodus]

I understand where you are coming from, but if they weren't going to do that, they should never have teased it on the first place. Or at least they should have made the reveal one way or another relevant to the plot somehow. Instead all they did was open a mystery box to reveal absolutely nothing inside.

by the way, was it ever revealed who Hope father is? Is it maybe the Phoenix Force who used Jean Grey DNA in order to impregnate a human woman in Alaska to create a new host body for itself? Maybe just my head canon anyway but......

[Grinning Soul]

I understand where you are coming from, but if they weren't going to do that, they should never have teased it on the first place. Or at least they should have made the reveal one way or another relevant to the plot somehow. Instead all they did was open a mystery box to reveal absolutely nothing inside.

I wouldn't want that. I liked Hope as her own character, actually. I wanted Marvel to have done something with the whole messiah/destroyer aspect of her. There was so much potential there too: exploring the destiny/nurture aspect of her ultimate fate, for instance, being just one interesting avenue.

And I would prefer Hope's story to have little to do with the Phoenix.

YES!!!!! I think that would have been a beautiful symmetry actually. Jean raised Cable in the future and now he did exactly the same for her: full circle Summers Grey family madness. I love it.

Oh, no problem! :) I met many Jean Grey fans who love the mess and think the more messy the stuff around her ther better! :D

I'm the opposite, though. But that's not the reason why I'd have preffered Jean and Hope to be completely separate. I just wrote why in the reply to Gray.

[Grinning Soul]

by the way, was it ever revealed who Hope father is? Is it maybe the Phoenix Force who used Jean Grey DNA in order to impregnate a human woman in Alaska to create a new host body for itself? Maybe just my head canon anyway but...... ;)

I don't think it was ever revealed who was Hope's biological father.

I have my own head canon too! I absolutely love fan theories. For that, I find the crazier they are, the better. :)

I read a fan once (before Hope was created) saying that they thought when Jean decided to wear the Grey Phoenix costume again in Alaska, it was because it would be revealed that she was pregnant. I love that idea so much, that I couldn't resist creating my own head cannon about that and how it related to Hope. But the Phoenix wouldn't have impregnanted a woman, though, 'cause that would be too rape-y for my comfort. It had to do with Phoenix fragments and how they behave... :)

[Phoenixx9]

I wouldn't want that. I liked Hope as her own character, actually.

And I would prefer if Hope's story to have little to do with the Phoenix.

Exactly, 1000%. Hope should have nothing to do with Jean nor the Phoenix.

[johnnysv75]

I am so stupidly stubborn that I still refuse to acknowledge the Phoenix force. To me Jean is Phoenix and Phoenix is Jean. The Phoenix force could be the psionic remnants from Jean when she died on the moon. A cosmic version of the shadow king.

[Devaishwarya]

Except the Phoenix as a Cosmic Entity existed since the creation of the cosmos (or thereabouts). So....

But I get it. We do what we must to hold onto our joy and sanity during these crazy times.

[Grinning Soul]

Edit 1: I do not believe the PF corrupted Jean nor did the PF Power corrupt Jean. You can blame Emma, Mastermind the the Hellfire Club for that mess. They tampered with Jean's mind, inducing dark desires and fantasies, creating illusion, delusions and totally screwing around with her perceptions.

Also, if this was originally meant to be Jean's Power, risen to its ultimate potential, then Jean can/could handle it. That would extend to the PF as well. Jean was handling the power just fine, until the Hellfire Club meddling.

She was handling it fine, but there was some red flags already. How long would she had handled it, though? Maybe she would have learnt to keep it under control for many years. But what would happen at moments of great loss/stress? Would she be able to resist giving in to anger and destruction? We just don’t know. But most likely, she wouldn’t. She’s a creature of passion.

I know you don't like the DPS, but the reason I said the power corrupted her and the Hellfire Club was the catalyst, is because of the considerations of the Watcher at the end of DPS.

"All beings carry within them a capacity for good and evil. All our actions result from the interaction of these two fundamental forces.

Our reason makes us aware of these forces and likewise gives us the responsibility of choosing between them. Regrettably, not all choices are clear-cut, not all conflicts obvious.

This child achieved a level of power that placed her as far above humanity -- on the evolutionary scale -- as they are above the amoeba. She had only to think, and that thought would become instant reality. But the Phoenix is also a Force of primal passion, and Homo sapiens is still as much a creature of passion as of intellect. Such passion is by its very nature seductive and violent. Jean could not help but respond to it, be changed by it, and in time, overwhelmed.

So, she briefly became the Dark Side of Phoenix: the black angel, chaos-bringer, yet, when faced with a choice between keeping her god-like power -- knowing she would then wreak death and destruction across the stars -- and dying herself, she chose the latter.

That is what makes humanity virtually unique in the Cosmos, my friend -- This extra-ordinary capacity for self-sacrifice. This ability to triumph over seemingly insurmountable obstacles if the cause be just, knowing all the while that to do so means certain death.

The X-men do not realize it -- they may never realize, or accept it -- but this day they have won perhaps the greatest victory of their young lives.

Jean Grey could have lived to become a god.. But it was more important to her that she die... a human".

I get goosebumps and tears every time I read this. I know: I’m such a sucker it’s not even funny.

Anyway, I know you don't like the DPS and accept and welcome your way of seeing things, my friend. :)

https://tenor.com/view/mua-kiss-love...ns-gif-5702977

I am so stupidly stubborn that I still refuse to acknowledge the Phoenix force. To me Jean is Phoenix and Phoenix is Jean. The Phoenix force could be the psionic remnants from Jean when she died on the moon. A cosmic version of the shadow king.

All good by me too, johnny. What matters to me is that we both love the character. :)

[Phoenixx9]

Except the Phoenix as a Cosmic Entity existed since the creation of the cosmos (or thereabouts). So....

But I get it. We do what we must to hold onto our joy and sanity during these crazy times.

Ain't it the truth, my friend.

[Exodus]

Except the Phoenix as a Cosmic Entity existed since the creation of the cosmos (or thereabouts). So....

But I get it. We do what we must to hold onto our joy and sanity during these crazy times.

so did Jesus' daddy though...! :-p

For Jean as the Phoenix time is not linear anymore. She controls it. I think transcending into a higher being wouldn't contradict that the Phoenix always existed. Jean could still trancend her being and become a god.

#GodIsAWoman

[Phoenixx9]

She was handling it fine, but there was some red flags already. How long would she had handled it, though? Maybe she would have learnt to keep it under control for many years. But what would happen at moments of great loss/stress? Would she be able to resist giving in to anger and destruction? We just don’t know. But most likely, she wouldn’t. She’s a creature of passion.

I know you don't like the DPS, but the reason I said the power corrupted her and the Hellfire Club was the catalyst, is because of the considerations of the Watcher at the end of DPS.

That is what makes humanity virtually unique in the Cosmos, my friend -- This extra-ordinary capacity for self-sacrifice. This ability to triumph over seemingly insurmountable obstacles if the cause be just, knowing all the while that to do so means certain death.

I get goosebumps and tears every time I read this. I know: I’m such a sucker it’s not even funny.

Anyway, I know you don't like the DPS and accept and welcome your way of seeing things, my friend.

https://tenor.com/view/mua-kiss-love...ns-gif-5702977

Phoenix was only meant to be a "side" X-men character, which is why she had no cover box face nor mini-write-up on the splash page. But fans went wild over Phoenix and Jean's empowerment. This was much to dismay of Byrne and Claremont who wanted Wolverine to be the (only) stand-out character. So they changed directions and added things in with Jean not being able to handle her power. Reducing her from a strong woman to a scared, unsure girl. They did not feature Phoenix much and to make her weaker, they quickly came up with Jean herself imposing strong limits to chop her powers back "to a level she could handle". And then they did the worst thing they could do: make Jean lose her mind, turn evil, kill a multitude and then die.

I appreciate your view and I know you do mine. I know the Watcher's statement means a lot to you. I always hated it. All of the wonderful qualitites Jean possesses should have easily enabled her to handle her powers. Marvel "used" the Watcher as the Watcher was popular in stories back then--and as a way of cementing their decision.

Because of the DPS and the Watcher's statement, fans of other characters (even here on CBR) will cite Jean as being weak, weak-willed, nothing special as she could not handle the Phoenix. They also mention other characters handled it as good or better.

[Vishop]

That story had such potential, but it was a gigantic mess from start to finish. *Sigh*

No it doesn't. Especially when you see the big picture behind this during 2012.

[Harpsikord]

This is really cool. Thanks for sharing.

I like to share and it's fun to do, thank you for liking it haha.

Question: are you married to Jean wearing green?

EDIT: Meaning, would you consider other colours for Jean, even though green is her traditional one?

Generally speaking the answer to this question is 'yes,' because I think that red clashes with her hair and that's the other color she's mainly been associated with. But there are exceptions - such as when she wears the uniform blue or black and gold, and the blue and red of the X-Men Red costume was fine (specifically because her hair was against the blue, and not the red). But green always trumps.

I understand where you are coming from, but if they weren't going to do that, they should never have teased it on the first place. Or at least they should have made the reveal one way or another relevant to the plot somehow. Instead all they did was open a mystery box to reveal absolutely nothing inside.

I remember reading an interview years ago where Mike Carey stated that in his script, the baby that would eventually become Hope was actually Jean, and this is something that I don't think changed up until they were plotting and writing Second Coming. The entire time that she was growing up, young Hope was displaying purely psychic powers and not the power mimicry that Hope is known for, and then in Second Coming she takes on powers of other characters during the climax. It feels like an incredibly last minute decision.

That said, I don't think that Hope and Jean are anything alike even if she is 'is' another 'redheaded omega level mutant.' They act and present incredibly differently.

[jwatson]

The Marvel Girls. Yes that's a lot of green. lol

marvelgirls.jpg