Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2021

[Havok83]

It isnt about sexism considering the PF is currently being shopped around to other females. Jean doesnt have the PF right now bc the X-Office doesnt currently have access to it. PERIOD. Its been off limits for years bc Aaron has been using it and building a long tale narrative with it. The current Entre the Phoenix storyline would not be possible if Jean was Phoenix in the X-line. The X-office was lucky enough to even be able to use it as a plot device to bring Jean back but thats the extent to which they were able to

[TheLimboBabies]

I really loved x-men red, it felt exciting and not just because of jean.

[Rang10]

It isnt about sexism considering the PF is currently being shopped around to other females. Jean doesnt have the PF right now bc the X-Office doesnt currently have access to it. PERIOD. Its been off limits for years bc Aaron has been using it and building a long tale narrative with it. The current Entre the Phoenix storyline would not be possible if Jean was Phoenix in the X-line. The X-office was lucky enough to even be able to use it as a plot device to bring Jean back but thats the extent to which they were able to

Well Phoenix is going to a woman after being with Thor and Old man Wolverine.

X-office choose to let Phoenix go or Aaron called dibs first? I really want to know

Bottom line, it’s sexism. There is an underside to the Dark Phoenix Saga that writers avoid. The fact that Jean was manipulated and rapped, which led to her becoming unhinged and committing suicide at the end.

This is something no writer has been able to properly followup and use to evolve the character. Jean needs to reclaim the Phoenix Force and reshape her identify/destine as it prime avatar.

For me this is why writers have pigeonholed her into the mother/wife role, air the saint/martyr, apprentice, or now as ‘the Marvel Girl’. Phoenix Resurrection was such a poor portrayal of Jean’s relationship with the Phoenix Force because it made her a victim of the Phoenix Force. It’s not an abusive boyfriend/husband or manipulative parent, it’s her POWER. ✊ Not one that was chosen for her as a child, but one that she willingly claimed as her birthright.

There are many Marvel Characters that have dealt with trauma in their narratives and triumphed. Jean needs this kind of character progression. WandaVision has done a great job with Wanda, and her grief. I’m sure Captain Marvel will get a great story out of a Marcus or Rogue adaption in the MCU. After the #MeToo Movement I don’t know why Marvel hasn’t consider revisiting Jean’s trauma with Phoenix Force in a respectful and progressive way that would propel her to the leading character status and respect fans desire.

Morrison’s run was heading there with giving Jean power and autonomy until her death. X-Men Red was successful in establishing her role as a credible leader, but this current era had been a disappointment in this regard. Hopefully the Hellfire Gala can get the ball rolling.

Seems like every writer is afraid of going deep with Jean. Other day i just read that Jean couldn't control her emotions. Well tat was because she was rapedin a gross manipulation scheme.

It's the same for Wanda, the tv show got her right because they went deep on the trauma of losing her loved ones. Comics only went there once, but it needed more work. Avengers were basicallty gaslighting her and x-men tried to murder her.

Captain Marvel totally won't have a Marcus story on MCU, that stuff was pure gross. Good that Carol had Claremont to see that it was wrong and process it on comics. Rogue I'm not sure...

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

Well Phoenix is going to a woman after being with Thor and Old man Wolverine.

X-office choose to let Phoenix go or Aaron called dibs first? I really want to know



Seems like every writer is afraid of going deep with Jean. Other day i just read that Jean couldn't control her emotions. Well tat was because she was rapedin a gross manipulation scheme.

It's the same for Wanda, the tv show got her right because they went deep on the trauma of losing her loved ones. Comics only went there once, but it needed more work. Avengers were basicallty gaslighting her and x-men tried to murder her.

Captain Marvel totally won't have a Marcus story on MCU, that stuff was pure gross. Good that Carol had Claremont to see that it was wrong and process it on comics. Rogue I'm not sure...

They didn't have any plans for Cyclops to use the Phoenix so they said the Avengers could have it. They'll bring it back to give it to Rachel so Cyke can angst about his kid having it.

[otipep_90]

The reason why Jean has not been Phoenix in long-form narrative is because of sexism from comic creators and editors. This stems back from when she wasn’t allowed to fight Thor as Phoenix, her death being editorial mandated because the arts wanted to draw her gorging on an inhabited star system (which was not part of the script), to editorially enforcing a 15 year death period so that her husband would not be overshadowed by her, while he enjoyed himself with one of her abusers (keeping in mind that Emma was a victim herself, who evolved from a 2-dimensional villain). These are all examples of the sexism that has holds Jean back, which directly relates to why she has been unable to reclaim her identity as Phoenix.

Initially there was no Phoenix Force and when it was retcon into existence it was an abstract cosmic life force that took Jean’s image and her inner identity, see Classic X-Men #8 backup story on the origin of the Phoenix Force. Later on in Excalibur the imagery was retcon as originating from Freon I instead of Jean’s psyche. Jean Grey may be the human name her parents gave her but the Mutant name she chose for herself is Phoenix.

Aaron has gotten away with snatching the Phoenix Force because Jean was off the table for some long, and the only reason he has leaned into the whole Lady Phoenix/Firehair is because he wanted to establish her as Thor’s mother. Otherwise we would have gotten more Phoenix Wolverine stories or another ‘insert’ male character of his choosing. He is not following some established rule that the Phoenix host should be female. More than half of his contest of champions participantes are male, and his Phoenix Force would prefer to bond with Táchala because he is the current Avengers team leader. In Aaron’s canon he established that the final Phoenix Host is Wolverine.

X-Men Red had many positive things going for it, least of all a good showing for adult Jean as a leader. Teen Jean help reestablish that foundation. After all who would follow a dead women that had miss out on years of stories and character development? By the end of AvX it had already been too long. That’s why Bendis’s radical way of reestablishing Jean via time displaced teenager worked. The character had been continually bashed or venerated for some long.

[otipep_90]

Seems like every writer is afraid of going deep with Jean. Other day i just read that Jean couldn't control her emotions. Well tat was because she was raped in a gross manipulation scheme.

It's the same for Wanda, the tv show got her right because they went deep on the trauma of losing her loved ones. Comics only went there once, but it needed more work. Avengers were basicallty gaslighting her and x-men tried to murder her.

Captain Marvel totally won't have a Marcus story on MCU, that stuff was pure gross. Good that Carol had Claremont to see that it was wrong and process it on comics. Rogue I'm not sure...

Yeah this is why I think WandaVision has been suorising good and reminds me of FX Legion which felt with a lot of trauma and what that means for a telepath. In some way Teen Jean dealt with trauma from the Dark Phoenix Saga, but not in firsthand.

The Marcus thing is a bit impenetrable for a movie audience and it’s not as important as the Rogue/Mystique is story and it also can link the her alcoholism, which she has worked hard on. Even in more resent runs both still come up, I feel the MCU should deal with it at some point.

[otipep_90]

Classic X-Men #8 Backup Story The Gift

[otipep_90]

Classic X-Men #6 Backup Story ‘A Love Story’ this is the night before Jean becomes Phoenix as she gets ready for her date with Scott. A mostly Silent Issue that that doesn’t get referenced much. The subtext is there, these are the memories Jean had before piloting that shuttle and merging with a cosmic force of life, the ‘Phoenix Force’.

It’s almost like a young Bruce Wayne going to see Zorro with his parents before tragedy sets course to make him Batman.

[Rang10]

Yeah this is why I think WandaVision has been suorising good and reminds me of FX Legion which felt with a lot of trauma and what that means for a telepath. In some way Teen Jean dealt with trauma from the Dark Phoenix Saga, but not in firsthand.

The Marcus thing is a bit impenetrable for a movie audience and it’s not as important as the Rogue/Mystique is story and it also can link the her alcoholism, which she has worked hard on. Even in more resent runs both still come up, I feel the MCU should deal with it at some point.

Legion was pretty great too, very out of the box tv show like Wandavision. Good exploration of trauma and its lingering effects.

Marcus is really not MCU materil, rape is a mature matter and Marvel prefers a PG-13. It was written as consensual on comics, Claremont saw the comic and called out everyone. The intention was never publish a rape story. Rogue is important, but MCu also does their own thing, for a series of movies it wont't work. now if it was a serialized like a tv show.

[Marvelboy1974]

While I am really happy for all the development Scarlet Witch is getting in the MCU, I can’t help but worry if this will diminish Jean if and when she gets introduced into the MCU. Wanda already has TK and TP, even red hair, just like Jean. Will Jean be even needed in the future?

[Devaishwarya]

Why would Jean be diminished? She is a separate character with a different history from Wanda. Jean (and any other mutant character) will only be diminished if the writer(s) of their introduction to the MCU diminishes them with poor, lack-lustre storytelling.

[Cruelrain]

While I am really happy for all the development Scarlet Witch is getting in the MCU, I can’t help but worry if this will diminish Jean if and when she gets introduced into the MCU. Wanda already has TK and TP, even red hair, just like Jean. Will Jean be even needed in the future?

i don't think you should be worried, they already established that Wanda's powers are magical and by the time Jean arrives to the MCU i don't think Lizzie would still playing the character.

[starduck]

While I am really happy for all the development Scarlet Witch is getting in the MCU, I can’t help but worry if this will diminish Jean if and when she gets introduced into the MCU. Wanda already has TK and TP, even red hair, just like Jean. Will Jean be even needed in the future?

Wanda is already the Scarlet Witch, next time we see her she'll probably be using more chaos magic than just tk/tp and she'll probably get her brown hair back too. The door is wide open for Jean now

[Phoenixx9]

Wanda is already the Scarlet Witch, next time we see her she'll probably be using more chaos magic than just tk/tp and she'll probably get her brown hair back too. The door is wide open for Jean now

Come on Jean! Get into the MCU as a strong, powerful, confident young woman who is the heart and soul of the X-team.

[starduck]

Come on Jean! Get into the MCU as a strong, powerful, confident young woman who is the heart and soul of the X-team.

Yeah, I hope she and Storm are in the forst X-team in the mcu