Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2021

[Starchilde]

Heh, Mystique being in the place of Judas is on point

[Mercury]

Heh, Mystique being in the place of Judas is on point

No, Sinister is.

[Starchilde]

No, Sinister is.

you're right! I messed up the names

[Thirteen]

Clearer pic:

It’s a got amazing potential. Just a little streamlining…

I would remove the headgear. In terms of everything else, it would be minor alterations. I have a clear image in mind but give me some time to come up with the words to describe what I am envisioning.

I think the headpiece is on the other end of the spectrum from what usually bothers me - when the headgear has no interaction with hair/head and acts just like body paint - and in this case the tiara reads like a mystical type adornment. Like something Talisman from Alpha Flight would wear, or as someone else said, she looks like a occult figure.

[Celestialbodies]

Jean Grey doesn’t do drab.

Speaking of Costume variants in the Krakoan era where we were told that characters could be depicted wearing different costumes as creators' whim, which I find to be a continuity nightmare (see Lorna Dane who was shown in different costumes over the course of what should have been a contiguous plot), which suits have we seen Jean in?
Classic Marvel Girl, X-Factor Red (post-Fall of the Mutants), X-Men Gold (Jim Lee era), X-Men:Red Dauterman Variant...any others?


I wish someone would sneak in the Alex Ross design since its a free for all...

I would have honestly loved to see Jean in ANYTHING daring in the last two years but it seems "daring" and Jean must be avoided at all costs in this era. Outside of the Dauterman pushed XMR redesign, the 90's costume in Sword, the 80's Factor costume in X-men, and her Hellfire Gala garb she has remain utterly tame, a staunch representation of her contributions, Duggan notwithstanding. I still think if Hickman cared even a little he would have done something different like put her in her NXM costume, it represented for me an edgier Jean.

I was intrigued to see that Phoenix symbol! but after reading Inferno's today, I'm guessing they are going to connect it via the Rook'shir blade to one of Hickman's favorite boys *sighs*

Yeah, I’m not expecting much in terms of the Phoenix Force being connected to Jean during this era. However, it is interesting that they’ve released two promos that feature Jean’s mask. Honestly, I’m hoping it’s just buildup to a uniform change and shift in direction for her.

After reading Inferno I wonder however small, if maybe just maybe Hickman originally wanted to use the actual PF and Galactus in his run before editorial mandate returned Galactus and Franklin to the Fantastic Four and oddly enough the PF to the....Avengers! But you know maybe that was an unexpected blessing in disguise, I imagine Hickman would have had detached Jean completely from the PF and had Emma, Cyke or literally anyone else taming and acting as the principle authority on the PF.

EDIT-- It just hit me, "child of the sun" lol of course Hickman would have Sunspot wielding the Phoenix Blade, at least he's consistent in his aversion to all things Jean + Phoenix!

Perhaps keeping Jean in her old uniform morphed from an inspired to a calculated choice. The vociferous blowback from fans was definitely heard and, at times, extremely inappropriate. I could understand why certain creators who were at the receiving end of it - namely Hickman and Duggan - would choose to rub it in, so to speak. However, I also believe Jean’s change of uniform is upcoming and has been timed for optimum impact and character development. There have been enough…hints. I won’t repeat them.



In either case, while I very much dislike the green garb, it doesn’t bother me as much as it does some fans because I know nothing in comics lasts forever and, as a big Jean fan, I’m used to spending periods in the trenches with her. It’s part and parcel—and part of the charm—of being a Jean Grey fan. She never has nor ever will be one of those characters that depends on a codename or particular look or specific character trait to remain relevant or perennially talked about, which she most certainly still is. The fans adore and pine after her, and haters and detractors seethe. Good.

Jean is both warm and cold, kind and aggressive, confident and insecure, dependable and utterly mercurial, a lover of mutants and humans and, in the end, a loner at heart. She’s as open as a sunflower in the summer and as captivating and mysterious as an obsidian shard after volcanic extrusion. She’s an enigma. That’s how I view her, anyway. As Xavier’s first student, the first female and a founding member of the X-Men, and the one true host - really, an actual fragment of - the Phoenix Force (and, in the end, transcendent of all of that), Jean Grey will always be relevant and on more than a few people’s minds.

I waited 14 years for her to return in real time. I can wait a little longer for a costume change I think the costume is simply a symptom of larger issues with the character as a whole for me, which is care.

Jean has so much potential yet, Marvel and specifically writers go out of their way to minimize her. I was not a fan of Bendis' Jean but I'd be lying if I said I didn't miss her fire, focus, and usage across titles. Outside of Red there has not been a ton of meat for fans of Jean in two years. I mean real stories which develop and grow her, I like what Duggan is doing but much of it is superficial and his most recent issues kind of hit that home for me. Jean is a the first student of Xavier, a telekinetic and an Omega telepath trained by the strongest telepathic mind of Earth, she's held universes in her hand, been a mutants rights activist, and has faced death in the eyes and didn't blink. I would like a little care to be placed in her overall character and direction but there doesn't seem to be a rush to make Jean more, unlike literally all of her peers. For me it sucks to see so many different writers jumping to add and develop these other characters meanwhile Jean is stuck in a mini dress from the 60-70's, that apparently even she doesn't like.

[Gnostic]

What do you think of the Phoenix Force being the god of mutants? Here is what I said in another thread:

I dunno. I love the idea of the mutant religion being a “Phoenix Cult” that worships the Phoenix Force as their god.

Mutants have been an allegory for Jews since the Stan Lee and Jack Kirby run. They are discriminated against and faced holocaust-like scenarios. After all of that mutants form an ethno-state on Krakoa as a safe-haven, just like the jews did with Israel after the Holocaust.

When mutantkind was on the verge of extinction, it was the Phoenix Force that gave them a messiah with the power to save them. Just like how Yahweh send the messiah Moses to save the Jews from enslavement in Egypt. Now the mutant messiah is resurrecting mutants with her power like the Jewish messiah Jesus/Yeshua. Mutants are basically the chosen people of the Phoenix Force, which is basically a god.

It all fits thematically.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

Like we been knew, this ain't Jean's era. It'll be funny if they take the Phoenix from Echo just to give it to Cyclops, Emma, or another Hickman pet. May as well just use Echo since they are adamant about reducing Jean. No reason to do a hackneyed bit to get the Phoenix away from one unrelated character to give it to another unrelated character.

[Mercury]

I would have honestly loved to see Jean in ANYTHING daring in the last two years but it seems "daring" and Jean must be avoided at all costs in this era. Outside of the Dauterman pushed XMR redesign, the 90's costume in Sword, the 80's Factor costume in X-men, and her Hellfire Gala garb she has remain utterly tame, a staunch representation of her contributions, Duggan notwithstanding. I still think if Hickman cared even a little he would have done something different like put her in her NXM costume, it represented for me an edgier Jean.

I don't know, people seem to think that what she did in issue #5 - i.e., reverting Lorna's second thought back to her initial one - was rather "daring." I agree that it was. Also, she left X-Force; when given the ultimatum, opted to bow out of the Quiet Council in favor of fighting alongside her fellow mutants during X of Swords - something even Emma defended her doing; refused the offer to rejoin the QC, and initiated the founding of the new team. These moments may seem inconsequential; however, they have had a reverberating impact. And, of course, Duggan has been writing her as a pivotal and decisive leader.

As fans, while we are obviously within our rights to grow impatient and expect more for a character of her stature, I think it is important that we not throw out the baby with the bathwater. She's had some stellar moments during the last two years and, though she may not have been as involved in the Krakoan shenanigans as some of the others (I'm actually relieved about this), I am pleased with where she seems to be heading. She definitely has her fair share of artists and writers who list her amongst their favorite characters and are rooting for her.

I waited 14 years for her to return in real time. I can wait a little longer for a costume change I think the costume is simply a symptom of larger issues with the character as a whole for me, which is care.

Jean has so much potential yet, Marvel and specifically writers go out of their way to minimize her. I was not a fan of Bendis' Jean but I'd be lying if I said I didn't miss her fire, focus, and usage across titles. Outside of Red there has not been a ton of meat for fans of Jean in two years. I mean real stories which develop and grow her, I like what Duggan is doing but much of it is superficial and his most recent issues kind of hit that home for me. Jean is a the first student of Xavier, a telekinetic and an Omega telepath trained by the strongest telepathic mind of Earth, she's held universes in her hand, been a mutants rights activist, and has faced death in the eyes and didn't blink. I would like a little care to be placed in her overall character and direction but there doesn't seem to be a rush to make Jean more, unlike literally all of her peers. For me it sucks to see so many different writers jumping to add and develop these other characters meanwhile Jean is stuck in a mini dress from the 60-70's, that apparently even she doesn't like.

Some of what you've written here could have been pulled from my own thoughts. However, I am a huge fan of Bendis' Jean. He loved her as a character and it showed. I love many of the nuances and developments he added to her already-iconic profile. In either case, whenever I catch myself growing impatient for more "fire, focus, and usage," I remember what Daedra said months ago - that writers will come and go, and the stories and characters will be reinterpreted and reinvented anew again - and suddenly, I realize that things aren't so dire. And I grow grateful for the fact that she is back and in a central role. Her time will come again and, in my opinion, soon.

[Grey]

I don't know, people seem to think that what she did in issue #5 - i.e., reverting Lorna's second thought back to her initial one - was rather "daring." I agree that it was. Also, she left X-Force; when given the ultimatum, opted to bow out of the Quiet Council in favor of fighting alongside her fellow mutants during X of Swords - something even Emma defended her doing; refused the offer to rejoin the QC, and initiated the founding of the new team. These moments may seem inconsequential; however, they have had a reverberating impact. And, of course, Duggan has been writing her as a pivotal and decisive leader.

As fans, while we are obviously within our rights to grow impatient and expect more for a character of her stature, I think it is important that we not throw out the baby with the bathwater. She's had some stellar moments during the last two years and, though she may not have been as involved in the Krakoan shenanigans as some of the others (I'm actually relieved about this), I am pleased with where she seems to be heading. She definitely has her fair share of artists and writers who list her amongst their favorite characters and are rooting for her.



Some of what you've written here could have been pulled from my own thoughts. However, I am a huge fan of Bendis' Jean. He loved her as a character and it showed. I love many of the nuances and developments he added to her already-iconic profile. In either case, whenever I catch myself growing impatient for more "fire, focus, and usage," I remember what Daedra said months ago - that writers will come and go, and the stories and characters will be reinterpreted and reinvented anew again - and suddenly, I realize that things aren't so dire. And I grow grateful for the fact that she is back and in a central role. Her time will come again and, in my opinion, soon.

I personally did find jean and Polaris’s inteaction to stoke the memory of bendis’s teen jean - my favorite version of all time. I know that’s likely a very bold claim to more long term fans, but I felt she was so relatable at that point in my life. And I got to “grow” with her, where she become an even better version of herself. Which I think we all are trying to do, at the end of the day.

Teen jean brought so much to the table, good and bad. Moments like the Lorna one just remind me her memory is still in there, and still a part of her character today. For example, how jean wasn’t apologetic about it (nor do I think she necessarily should have been). I just saw it as so teen jean. Her confidence was hard earned after a LOT of trial and error with very little guidance.


I also agree that his love for the character shone through so much. He dragged her through the mud for a while to my delight (let me explain).

A lot of folks were, for example, floored when teen jean was mentally defeated by the cuckoos at Emma’s direction. They humiliated her in front of a the entire jean grey school for mind controlling angel.

But it was this moment I knew how much I loved this character and bendis’s take on her. He was ready to have the character earn her moments. That same issue when kitty is threatening to throw her out if she steps out of line one more time, jean asks if she can hug kitty. And kitty says of course. Probably one of my favorite jean moments or all time.

Point is, only a character you love can you get away with putting through events like this and still have fans sticking around. He wasn’t afraid to knock her down a peg before having her climb two more.

[Mercury]

I personally did find jean and Polaris’s inteaction to stoke the memory of bendis’s teen jean - my favorite version of all time. I know that’s likely a very bold claim to more long term fans, but I felt she was so relatable at that point in my life. And I got to “grow” with her, where she become an even better version of herself. Which I think we all are trying to do, at the end of the day.

Teen jean brought so much to the table, good and bad. Moments like the Lorna one just remind me her memory is still in there, and still a part of her character today. For example, how jean wasn’t apologetic about it (nor do I think she necessarily should have been). I just saw it as so teen jean. Her confidence was hard earned after a LOT of trial and error with very little guidance.


I also agree that his love for the character shone through so much. He dragged her through the mud for a while to my delight (let me explain).

A lot of folks were, for example, floored when teen jean was mentally defeated by the cuckoos at Emma’s direction. They humiliated her in front of a the entire jean grey school for mind controlling angel.

But it was this moment I knew how much I loved this character and bendis’s take on her. He was ready to have the character earn her moments. That same issue when kitty is threatening to throw her out if she steps out of line one more time, jean asks if she can hug kitty. And kitty says of course. Probably one of my favorite jean moments or all time.

Point is, only a character you love can you get away with putting through events like this and still have fans sticking around. He wasn’t afraid to knock her down a peg before having her climb two more.

I completely agree with you. Her journey between 2012 and 2019 is just sublime.

[Mercury]

I'm sure most of you have read this entry from the Marvel Encyclopedia: New Edition (2019):

[Gnostic]

LMAO they confused Hope with Jean.

[Grey]

[QUOTE=Mercury;5844612]I'm sure most of you have read this entry from the Marvel Encyclopedia: New Edition (2019):



[/QUOTE

My blood boils every time i see her entry.

That has literallly been in every version revision since avx. I can’t believe they won’t remove it.

It’s a slap in the face to hope, too. Her moment as the mutant messiah credited to someone else. For 10+ years in official merchandise. Shameful.

[Mercury]

LMAO they confused Hope with Jean.

I knew you would catch that, lol! The physical copy uses an accurate picture:

[Grey]

I knew you would catch that, lol! The physical copy uses an accurate picture:

Thank goodness. I can sleep peacefully now.