Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2021

[Kingdom X]

X-men 8, she is the one that informs Scott about why the Brood have invaded Krakoa. She is the one that says they need to take the egg off planet and he listens to her instead of staying back and fighting.

X-Force 10, she takes lead of the team and directs Sage and Black Tom on their mission and ends up saving the rest

In Cable 5, she is the one that directs Scott and Nathan to go check the barracks while she investigates on her own. They follow her direction. When they reconvene together, she is the one that makes the decisions in the battle and they again listen to her. Scott shows no signs of agency in this issue as he follows her lead in every decision. At the very end of the issue, she is the one that tells him that they should breach Otherworld as he didnt think it could be done

In Destruction, Jean leads the telepathic breach of Otherworld. She has the powers that equip her to do so. Once that is done, she co-leads with Scott as they take the X-men into battle

In X-men 15, they both tell the QC about their plans to go into Otherworld. They do a both do a good job of working in unison. In X-men 16, she is the one that speaks up to reject Xavier and Magneto. She is the one that reaffirms that they intend to reform the X-men

Of course in KiB, she strategizes and leads multiple Marvel Heroes alone, not Scott. Scott is the one that follows her lead

X-men 17, Scott gives zero direction and Jean actually spends the latter half of the issue tending to his wounds. Prior to that, she is the one that manages to discover the spy and give the team direction

Thanks for highlighting all of this! Looking forward to more moments like this.

[loke13]

1. She died in Secret Wars anyway along with everything else. I'm tired of the tired narrative that Jean fans think she can never lose when that's what what does the vast majority of the time.

2. It would have been her getting to play her role as the Phoenix but nope, everything Jean really is about Cyke and they can't let us forget it.

3. It would have meant one less instant of some douche hijacking her glory just because they've smashed before.


In short, yes, The Phoenix against Doom should have been Jean, just as the Phoenix should be Jean any other time.

Xorneto did it better anyway.

1. Jean wasn't even alive until Phoenix Ressurection. 616 Scott Summers became the Phoenix after discovering the Phoenix egg in a story line that Bendis was supposed to expand upon(along with Nation X) but never did.

2. So Jean gets to become the Phoenix again just in time to get completely jobbed and humiliated and die again? No thanks.

3. There was no glory to hijack Jean was dead and Scott died almost immediately after becoming the Phoenix.

I'd much rather a Phoenix powered Jean be written as a heavy hitter rather than cannon fodder to prop up the Big Bad.

[Rang10]

1. She died in Secret Wars anyway along with everything else. I'm tired of the tired narrative that Jean fans think she can never lose when that's what what does the vast majority of the time.

2. It would have been her getting to play her role as the Phoenix but nope, everything Jean really is about Cyke and they can't let us forget it.

3. It would have meant one less instance of some douche hijacking her glory just because they've smashed before.


In short, yes, The Phoenix against Doom should have been Jean, just as the Phoenix should be Jean any other time.

Xorneto did it better anyway.

Say it right!!

Jean shouldnt even been dead on Secret Wars. Maybe they could have used it to bring her back

That's literally discrediting lol you don't want to give her autonomy for whatever reason. Despite you trying to create a narrative that she's Scott's lapdog.

Say what you want about Jean during this Krakoa era but the idea that Jean is just a housewife/background prop/ prone to fainting and passing out is false. Pick in the most recent King in Black issue Cate's literally has her almost faint and collapse into Scott's arms which is something X writers have been pointedly trying to avoid.

It's not me it is Hickman that is writing. I won't feast on the scraps for any character, the bare minimum is barely being done.

If you like his writing, good for you. But you trying to make the problem about me? not nice

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

1. Jean wasn't even alive until Phoenix Ressurection. 616 Scott Summers became the Phoenix after discovering the Phoenix egg in a story line that Bendis was supposed to expand upon(along with Nation X) but never did.

2. So Jean gets to become the Phoenix again just in time to get completely jobbed and humiliated and die again? No thanks.

3. There was no glory to hijack Jean was dead and Scott died almost immediately after becoming the Phoenix.

I'd much rather a Phoenix powered Jean be written as a heavy hitter rather than cannon fodder to prop up the Big Bad.

That's how it works when powerful characters are allowed to be powerful; sometimes they lose to show that some other character is powerful.

Jean, quite unfortunately, did not get to assume her role in that tradition because everything she is is owned by and conferred to Cyclops.

[loke13]

Say it right!!

Jean shouldnt even been dead on Secret Wars. Maybe they could have used it to bring her back



It's not me it is Hickman that is writing. I won't feast on the scraps for Jean, the bare minimum is barely being done.

If you like his writing, good for you. But you trying to make the problem about me? not nice

So now Hickman hates Jean because he didn't use HIS AVENGERS event as an opportunity to bring back Jean Grey? Lol I can't with y'all.

No one's asking you to "Feast off of scraps" whatever that means. You're the one who keep going on about how Jean is a glorified background prop for Scott Summers with no agency of her own a poster literally laid out multiple examples where that wasn't the case and you completely disregarded it and went straight back to discrediting.

That's how it works when powerful characters are allowed to be powerful; sometimes they lose to show that some other character is powerful.

Jean, quite unfortunately, did not get to assume her role in that tradition because everything she is is owned by and conferred to Cyclops.

And I'm saying that bringing Jean Grey back to life and have her reclaim her mantle as the Phoenix just to kill her off 0.5 seconds later to prop up Doctor Doom will be a complete disservice to her character you would be the main one saying so.

[Rang10]

So now Hickman hates Jean because he didn't use HIS AVENGERS event as an opportunity to bring back Jean Grey? Lol I can't with y'all.

No one's asking you to "Feast off of scraps" whatever that means. You're the one who keep going on about how Jean is a glorified background prop for Scott Summers with no agency of her own a poster literally laid out multiple examples where that wasn't the case and you completely disregarded it and went straight back to discrediting.

He already said on the past that she was better dead. I don't think people need to think a lot to see that he doesn't like the character .

The examples are bare minimum, doesn't show that she is the great leader. If the writer want to show how good she is leading? Show her doing things on her own

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

Jean Grey is like Thor if writers were really, really, really, really, really, really, really into inserting themselves as Jane and intended for Thor to never get his iconography back ever because it might dwarf Jane's shine too much for their comfort.

[loke13]

He already said on the past that she was better dead. I don't think people need to think a lot to see that he doesn't like the character .

The examples are bare minimum, doesn't show that she is the great leader. If the writer want to show how good she is leading? Show her doing things on her own

Disregard and discredit. Like I said.

[Havok83]

He already said on the past that she was better dead. I don't think people need to think a lot to see that he doesn't like the character .

The examples are bare minimum, doesn't show that she is the great leader. If the writer want to show how good she is leading? Show her doing things on her own

A leader doesnt lead by doing things on their own. Interacting with others is a key part of that

[Rang10]

Disregard and discredit. Like I said.

Of course not. I loved jean on King in Black, she had some moments on X-force too and that is it

Jean Grey is like Thor if writers were really, really, really, really, really, really, really into Jane and intended for Thor to never get his iconography back ever because it might dwarf Jane's shine too much for their comfort.

Guys went nuts over Thor not being Thor anymore and Jane taking over, as if it never happened before with a frog and a horse.

This is the perfect comparison.

A leader doesnt lead by doing things on their own. Interacting with others is a key part of that

As if Jean interact with a lot of characters, she only talks with Scott and then Wolverine. I disagree a leaer also do a lot of things, make decisions and explain their POV. Jean is doing nothing of these

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

"If Hickman isn't writing Jean as a leader, why did Cyclops tell her she could say Xavier's catchphrase in XoS, huh?"

[MechaJeanix]

X-men 8, she is the one that informs Scott about why the Brood have invaded Krakoa. She is the one that says they need to take the egg off planet and he listens to her instead of staying back and fighting.

X-Force 10, she takes lead of the team and directs Sage and Black Tom on their mission and ends up saving the rest

In Cable 5, she is the one that directs Scott and Nathan to go check the barracks while she investigates on her own. They follow her direction. When they reconvene together, she is the one that makes the decisions in the battle and they again listen to her. Scott shows no signs of agency in this issue as he follows her lead in every decision. At the very end of the issue, she is the one that tells him that they should breach Otherworld as he didnt think it could be done

In Destruction, Jean leads the telepathic breach of Otherworld. She has the powers that equip her to do so. Once that is done, she co-leads with Scott as they take the X-men into battle

In X-men 15, they both tell the QC about their plans to go into Otherworld. They do a both do a good job of working in unison. In X-men 16, she is the one that speaks up to reject Xavier and Magneto. She is the one that reaffirms that they intend to reform the X-men

Of course in KiB, she strategizes and leads multiple Marvel Heroes alone, not Scott. Scott is the one that follows her lead

X-men 17, Scott gives zero direction and Jean actually spends the latter half of the issue tending to his wounds. Prior to that, she is the one that manages to discover the spy and give the team direction

Thanks for listing these moments. I definitely want to see Jean continue in a leadership role and all signs point to her co-leading the X-men with Cyclops. I do think in some issues like X-men 15 Cyclops seems more centered than Jean however Jean does appear to be strong. Scott was also the one breaking down about the thought of losing Nathan in Otherworld (the second Cable issue in XOS) and it was Jean that kisses him and tells him "let's go fix it". Jean has had several strong moments in the Hickman era.

[MechaJeanix]

I'm not a "Hickman stan" just because I have thoughts that don't align with yours. Jean has been one of my favorite characters since I've gotten into comics, and I don't think its necessary to make that kind of comment.

I'm late to the discussion but I don't see Hickman stans here either unless I totally missed it. A few of us do overall enjoy the new direction. I happen to enjoy the Hickman Era even though I agree Jean has been a bit uneven and wish better for this particular character. I also do not enjoy the Hickman era as much as I did the Morrison era (no one will likely top Morrison for me), but of course the Hickman era is in its early years and there are more years to come! I hadn't read much from Hickman before he came on X-men but since I have read some of his other works (Black Monday Murders, and parts of his Fantastic Four and Avengers runs).

I try to stay positive and focus on the things that are good. I don't think it has been all bad even for Jean, but I do miss the focus the character received in X-men Red, the Teen Jean years, or the Morrison years. The character may not get that level focus and if that is the case I'm going to enjoy what we do get (like each and every time Percy writes Jean, etc). I do hold out hope that Hickman does have some sort of plan for Jean. He did choose to have her and Scott restart the X-men and lead an official X-men team.

Den-Mother/Mom Jean is not my fav and we've been getting some of that but hopefully we'll see Jean in some more action and as a capable leader of the X-men.

[Kingdom X]

I’m actually really curious how did a lot of you feel about Teen Jean? She got a lot of focus during her time but she obviously wasn’t the OG.

[andreikes]

She was always in control, I miss her
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