Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2021

[Celestialbodies]

That should be the case, and we will see if there is follow up on it.



Why would there need to be follow ups on her resurrection of Xavier? Storm is the one who nearly died, why would the reaction be on how Jean felt? Storm was meant to be the focus on that issue.

While I love when Jean gets focus not everything she is involved with means that the focus should be on her. Any powerful telepath could resurrect someone. Basically due to his role in founding Krakoa it´s Charles´s job to handle cerebro and do the resurrections (Jean didn´t use cerebro, but whatever). Exodus has resurrected people without the 5, including Xavier. Emma Frost, Rachel, Cable, Monet, the Cuckoos, Selene, Psylocke, Captain Britain/Betsy, Quentin, Shadow King, likely could all resurrect someone if the story required it. Of course some of these characters would never be trusted to be that involved in things.

Is this a joke?

Storm, Emma, and Lockheed LITERALLY spent several issues of Marauders doing this very thing after Kitty died, there were FOUR mini series devoted to how specific X-men in Logan's life reacted to his death and return it's called character development!

Usually, when something terrible happens to someone you love, you tend to have a reaction. More importantly if you can't see how or why the deaths or near deaths of Charles Xavier or Ororo Munroe two of the most important people in Jean's life would be for her development I don't know what to say. I wish I could be surprised, but I do feel some of us are so used to crumbs we don't know what actual character development is.

More importantly it is weird how you framed you second concern, I'm not asking for Jean to be forced into narratives she doesn't belong in, she was present in those stories and served a direct purpose yet none of it has been followed up on. Which would be fine, IF these two weren't some of the most important people in her life!

I'm not expecting the resurrection power boost to mean anything for Jean. The entire thought process behind the character under this editorial group is that she shouldn't be powerful. Hence the demand that she not have the pink form, not be Omega TK, totally disavow any connection she had to her Phoenix stories, not be brave during missions, so on and so forth.




Jean's changes are that she really just wants to be a mom and she realizes she is not cut out for dealing with any difficult situations.

Hickman chef's kiss.

It's unfortunate...

No doubt Hickman positioned Emma as being independent player, but I disagree at her being a peer to Magneto and Xavier, that is Moira role. he really recovered her from being a villain, it is like it never happened.

I think Scott being flirty and warm with his subordinates, is not how he is. He is plain and serious. It's also weird AF he cares about gabriel that he barely know and is creepy AF him talking about fire. I think today wolverine gave some clues about the reality on Krakoa.

It's really important that you noted that Scott can get his captain commander, but Jean had to stop being on Council to be on X-men because he said it was a rule to be on X-men. For me makes zero sense do it this way.
Both Jean leaing council and x-force had zero consequences, because she did very little on both. X-foce she just let Beast descend on tyranny and she just left the team without trying to stop him or warn other of his erratic behavior
You are right, we still didn't saw what Jean thinks about anything on Krakoa.

Jean relationships seems to be Scott, Logan and the kids that she only interacts when Scott is around.And he has the meaningful dialog with them, not Jean.

I really think Jean need to expand on the relationships, specially Storm and Xavier.

I don't know, when is the last time a Magneto Giant Sized Issue was devoted entirely to another person's narrative, Hickman had him act as a willing errand boy for Emma. She absolutely at least in this era an equal to Mags/Xavier, Moira is definitely a big player but we don't know yet what her role will be because outside of a cameo in XOS we have not seen her.

[andreikes]

The interesting thing about Emma is that her personality is solid. Jean's varies from writer ... X-men red and KiB seem to be one way, X-FORCE another and HoX another.

[Exodus]

The interesting thing about Emma is that her personality is solid. Jean's varies from writer ... X-men red and KiB seem to be one way, X-FORCE another and HoX another.

maybe "ice queen" is easy to remember as your main character trait when your name is Emma Frost?

Jean's main personality trait is being kind and caring but with a bad temper when provoked. Isn't this the core she always had?

[Havok83]

The interesting thing about Emma is that her personality is solid. Jean's varies from writer ... X-men red and KiB seem to be one way, X-FORCE another and HoX another.

Emma's personality varies too. Hickman writes her more cold and stoic and she's more warm and approachable under Duggan

Jean's only been written by 3 main writers in the current era, Hickman, Duggan and Percy. I feel Duggan and Percy's Jean are very much alligned with Hickman being the outlier. Outside of that she's only appeared in brief cameos, which didnt do much to showcase her personality. Heck Cates use of her in KiB is more like Duggan and Percy as well

[Cruelrain]

my problem with Hickman's marvel girl is that it seems like they de-aged Jean and changed her leader attitude so fast from X-men Red

i want Jean to be like this again

Phoenix or not

[Havok83]

my problem with Hickman's marvel girl is that it seems like they de-aged Jean and changed her leader attitude so fast from X-men Red

i want Jean to be like this again

Phoenix or not

Her role as a leader is something the books have been leaning into since XOS but people want to discredit it bc she's with Scott

[Rang10]

maybe "ice queen" is easy to remember as your main character trait when your name is Emma Frost?

Jean's main personality trait is being kind and caring but with a bad temper when provoked. Isn't this the core she always had?

I think that some fans think that Jean is bland that she is always cool and never gets mad. Just a bland two shoes.

Her role as a leader is something the books have been leaning into since XOS but people want to discredit it bc she's with Scott

We see him taking decisons and Jean agreeing with it. im not here for 2nd in command

I don't know, when is the last time a Magneto Giant Sized Issue was devoted entirely to another person's narrative, Hickman had him act as a willing errand boy for Emma. She absolutely at least in this era an equal to Mags/Xavier, Moira is definitely a big player but we don't know yet what her role will be because outside of a cameo in XOS we have not seen her.

That is a chaarcter assassination for Magneto, he would neer do that after what happened on IvX and X-men Blue. basically pure fan favoritism

[Havok83]

We see him taking decisons and Jean agreeing with it. im not here for 2nd in command

X-men 8, she is the one that informs Scott about why the Brood have invaded Krakoa. She is the one that says they need to take the egg off planet and he listens to her instead of staying back and fighting.

X-Force 10, she takes lead of the team and directs Sage and Black Tom on their mission and ends up saving the rest

In Cable 5, she is the one that directs Scott and Nathan to go check the barracks while she investigates on her own. They follow her direction. When they reconvene together, she is the one that makes the decisions in the battle and they again listen to her. Scott shows no signs of agency in this issue as he follows her lead in every decision. At the very end of the issue, she is the one that tells him that they should breach Otherworld as he didnt think it could be done

In Destruction, Jean leads the telepathic breach of Otherworld. She has the powers that equip her to do so. Once that is done, she co-leads with Scott as they take the X-men into battle

In X-men 15, they both tell the QC about their plans to go into Otherworld. They do a both do a good job of working in unison. In X-men 16, she is the one that speaks up to reject Xavier and Magneto. She is the one that reaffirms that they intend to reform the X-men

Of course in KiB, she strategizes and leads multiple Marvel Heroes alone, not Scott. Scott is the one that follows her lead

X-men 17, Scott gives zero direction and Jean actually spends the latter half of the issue tending to his wounds. Prior to that, she is the one that manages to discover the spy and give the team direction

[Rang10]

X-men 8, she is the one that informs Scott about why the Brood have invaded Krakoa. She is the one that says they need to take the egg off planet and he listens to her instead of staying back and fighting.

X-Force 10, she takes lead of the team and directs Sage and Black Tom on their mission and ends up saving the rest

In Cable 5, she is the one that directs Scott and Nathan to go check the barracks while she investigates on her own. They follow her direction. When they reconvene together, she is the one that makes the decisions in the battle and they again listen to her. Scott shows no signs of agency in this issue as he follows her lead in every decision. At the very end of the issue, she is the one that tells him that they should breach Otherworld as he didnt think it could be done

In Destruction, Jean leads the telepathic breach of Otherworld. She has the powers that equip her to do so. Once that is done, she co-leads with Scott as they take the X-men into battle

In X-men 15, they both tell the QC about their plans to go into Otherworld. They do a both do a good job of working in unison. In X-men 16, she is the one that speaks up to reject Xavier and Magneto. She is the one that reaffirms that they intend to reform the X-men

Of course in KiB, she strategizes and leads multiple Marvel Heroes alone, not Scott. Scott is the one that follows her lead

X-men 17, Scott gives zero direction and Jean actually spends the latter half of the issue tending to his wounds. Prior to that, she is the one that manages to discover the spy and give the team direction

Some of these is just Jean discovering things via TP and directing people, Its not a big deal.
X of Swords it is Cyclops plan and then he says she can lead.

Yeah kiB was the best use of her, she was really a leader there but it was written by Cates. She did alone

[Havok83]

Some of these is just Jean discovering things via TP and directing people, Its not a big deal.
X of Swords it is Cyclops plan and then he says she can lead.

Yeah kiB was the best use of her, she was really a leader there but it was written by Cates. She did alone

but this is you just discrediting her. The Cable issue in particular was all Jean with Scott and Nate followed her direction throughout that issue

[Rang10]

but this is you just discrediting her. The Cable issue in particular was all Jean with Scott and Nate followed her direction throughout that issue

I'm not dismissing, Im not gonna give credit for Jean doing the basic stuff

[loke13]

I'm not dismissing, Im not gonna give credit for Jean doing the basic stuff

That's literally discrediting lol you don't want to give her autonomy for whatever reason. Despite you trying to create a narrative that she's Scott's lapdog.

Say what you want about Jean during this Krakoa era but the idea that Jean is just a housewife/background prop/ prone to fainting and passing out is false. Pick in the most recent King in Black issue Cate's literally has her almost faint and collapse into Scott's arms which is something X writers have been pointedly trying to avoid.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

Hickman Jean is brought to us by a guy who likes seeing Scott with the Phoenix.

That pretty much says it all right there.

She never stood a chance.

[loke13]

Hickman Jean is brought to us by a guy who likes seeing Scott with the Phoenix.

That pretty much says it all right there.

She never stood a chance.

He also wrote Scott getting completely humiliated by Doom and getting his neck snapped. But people love to conveniently leave that part out unless you're saying you would have much rather have Jean fill that role in Secret Wars.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

He also wrote Scott getting completely humiliated by Doom and getting his neck snapped. But people love to conveniently leave that part out unless you're saying you would have much rather have Jean fill that role in Secret Wars.

1. She died in Secret Wars anyway along with everything else. I'm tired of the tired narrative that Jean fans think she can never lose when that's what what does the vast majority of the time.

2. It would have been her getting to play her role as the Phoenix but nope, everything Jean really is about Cyke and they can't let us forget it.

3. It would have meant one less instance of some douche hijacking her glory just because they've smashed before.


In short, yes, The Phoenix against Doom should have been Jean, just as the Phoenix should be Jean any other time.

Xorneto did it better anyway.