Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2021

[Havok83]

You are right that X-force is secret, so the residents doesn't know about it. Marauders Is not heroic bcause they are political, more because some members go out maiming people, but they are out there rescuing mutants. I dont think krakoans gonna care about any violence against opressors so for them they are heroes.
Helllions aren't less heroes because of Sinister, she was fine to put Havok into Sinister team.

Well everyone on the island was a potential x-men, they were all on the call for Cyclops choose. Now they are just elected on a proper team, I really don't see te difference here as QC still commands Scott, how x-men actually exists out of QC command? So Scott an continue to be the captain commander and QC will let him get away with it? But Jean can't get away with being on QC that she was completely fine.
About kid cable who cares? They should never had let a kid go and from the story Jean/Scott x-men did very little on the fight to say that they sved him. what saved the was Apocalypse winning the fight, not them

My point about the Maraurders being political is that that is their area of focus. They deal with international interactions with other countries when it comes to delivering drugs and rescuing mutants. They arent defending Krakoa directly. And yes maiming people is a big deal and puts them in line with X-Force

As far as Jean and the Hellions, we actually dont know if she was cool with any of that as we never saw the actual deliberation but even if we did, she has come to the realization that not all decisions made during her tenure with the QC were the best. After all she was down with X-Force in the beginning. And the Hellions arent heroes. They exist as a cleanup group for Sinister and the scope of their missions doesnt put them in a position to act heroic. They are pretty neutral

X-men will answer those questions. The scope of that stuff has yet to play out. Who cares about Cable? Um Jean.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

I just hope Duggan doesn't replicate those Hickman scenes where Jean is "lost" in battle.

Heh. Good luck!

[andreikes]

Heh. Good luck!

"Tributes, may the odds be ever in your favor."
The Hunger Games : Jean Grey

[Rang10]

My point about the Maraurders being political is that that is their area of focus. They deal with international interactions with other countries when it comes to delivering drugs and rescuing mutants. They arent defending Krakoa directly. And yes maiming people is a big deal and puts them in line with X-Force

As far as Jean and the Hellions, we actually dont know if she was cool with any of that as we never saw the actual deliberation but even if we did, she has come to the realization that not all decisions made during her tenure with the QC were the best. After all she was down with X-Force in the beginning. And the Hellions arent heroes. They exist as a cleanup group for Sinister and the scope of their missions doesnt put them in a position to act heroic. They are pretty neutral

X-men will answer those questions. The scope of that stuff has yet to play out. Who cares about Cable? Um Jean.

Well if Marauders save mutants from death camps they are still partly on the hero bussiness, just not in a traditional way like X-men.

Well she was fine sending the brother of her husband to the Sinister team, even when Scott protested it and she defended that choice. She seemed pretty nice with the idea on the hellions first issue.

I really dnt expect x-men book be nothing but superhero dumb aventures just like Marauders, I really don't expect answers about my questions

[Wiccan]

Oof, Louise Simonson was absolutely brutal about Maddie on X-Men Monday.

"AIPT: All right, on with the question. So Connor asked if you ever feel any remorse about what was done to Maddie. He said it’s in the X-Factor issues of “Inferno” where Maddie is really painted as a malevolent person, whereas Chris in Uncanny X-Men always seemed to have a lot of sympathy for her even after she lost her soul. Was there any hesitation about so thoroughly–and literally–demonizing Scott’s abandoned wife?

Louise: No, no remorse at all. It was like, “Oh, thank God, we can demonize her and now get that out of the way.” [Laughs]

Walter: I mean, I don’t think this is revealing anything Chris hasn’t already said, but she’s really there because Jean Grey was torn away from Chris, as was Cyke to create X-Factor. Chris really created Maddie essentially as a doppelganger so he could do the Jean Grey stories he kind of wanted to do with a Jean Grey lookalike.

Louise: And give Scott a happy life.

Walter: Yes. So she was created kind of as a doppelganger in the beginning. She wouldn’t have existed, I don’t think, if Jean hadn’t been untimely ripped from Chris’s womb.

Louise: Right.

Walter: So for those who don’t know what that means, look it up. That’s a quote. I don’t know if they teach those plays anymore, but she was really a doppelganger in a sense.

Louise: I mean, the name says Pryor, you know? There was a prior existence. She suddenly appears out of nowhere essentially. Chris had had no intention at the time of turning her into a bad girl character. And you know, she’s a character that we had to do something with. And she was for me, kind of a stepping stone, which is probably why I had less sympathy for her.

I knew she was just a substitute. She was always a fake Jean. When Chris was writing her, she was a fake Jean. I never actually–I’m going to get in so much trouble–but I never…

Walter: be careful.

Louise: She never felt real to me. And I think that what we did with her was the way I always felt about her–that she was never actually a real person. She was kind of a symbol for a person."

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

Maddy is especially all of that since her return. All writers want to do is have her come back to life still mad about inferno. It is such a drag. Give the character a new shtick already.

That initial villain turn was very crummy, but man are recent past and current writers dedicated to it.

X-Men's probably going to have her and Jean catfight.

[Havok83]

I stand with Louise on this one

[Wiccan]

X-Men's probably going to have her and Jean catfight.

I kinda wish Jean would "absorb" this new version of her too, and they went full-in with the idea of Jean and Madelyne really, officially being the same character. Kinda like how they did it back then but less "two double personalities" and more "these two lives make for the one personality I have now" (and permanently). Also bringing in a new redesign with some dark Madelyne-esque elements.

[Zelena]

Louise: She never felt real to me. And I think that what we did with her was the way I always felt about her–that she was never actually a real person. She was kind of a symbol for a person."

Maybe, characters, in general, feel less real to authors than to readers…

I always felt empathy to Maddie Pryor: she had a real life before meeting Scott Summers and seemed happy.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

I would just make Maddy a dark anti-hero. It's too late for her to be a goody-two-shoes because of what happened to her, but she would be an interesting ally.

At this point, I wouldn't delete her personhood. More just give her something to do as an individual.

But Marvel is very hesitant to do new things so she came back whining about inferno for like the 3rd time and then presumably died. Kinda whack.

[Havok83]

JEAN!



#BURNTHEDRESS

[Rang10]

I stand with Louise on this one

She is right, it is good that she is sincere. She doesn't hate the character, it is just how she see the situation.

Maybe, characters, in general, feel less real to authors than to readers…

I always felt empathy to Maddie Pryor: she had a real life before meeting Scott Summers and seemed happy.

She didn' havea life, that is why it was easy for the heel turn they made.

Maddie shuld get her vengeance and kill Mr Sinister 4ever (forever on comics is like 5 years)

[MechaJeanix]

Maddie is a character that has been through a lot. The character assassination in Inferno was over the top, but like Louise points out Claremont (Maddie's creator) was heavily involved. Maddie was a problem for them to be solved so she was given a direction and moved off the board. Then when she shows up again and again she's still messy or as a villain.

As a Jean fan I can sympathize with the Maddie fans. They want her to be something more and that is basically what we wish for Jean. I always saw Maddie as a Jean replacement so I never felt much for the character. I don't dislike her and I think there is a lot of potential for growth but she was never a character that resonated with me.

It would be nice for Maddie to get a fresh start and it would be great for Jean to have a twin sister but I don't expect that to happen.

As for Duggan, I know some fans weren't happy with how he handled Storm but I think he did well with Kitty's powers in Marauders and I think he did well with Iceman. So I expect him to actually have Jean do something and contribute to the team. If she panics during missions under him then it is time for us to just give up lol

[Rang10]

I think Storm and Iceman were seriously underpowered on Marauders. Chracter development was even worse

[Triniking1234]

I think Storm and Iceman were seriously underpowered on Marauders. Chracter development was even worse

You're gonna look under powered if you stand around doing nothing.