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  1. #2431
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rang10 View Post
    Jean role on X-force is finished, the problem is that it ended with a whimper and X-men didnt used it as a pitch for new motivations for Jean.

    X-force lost the focus and slowed too much pace, last issue could had be told in half of the issue. Also focusing too much on Quentin not helping it
    The stuff in X-Force is one of the motivation for her new role in X-Men. She wasnt down for the stuff that X-Force was doing, which was sanctioned by Xavier and the Council. She wants to reform the X-men free from their influence as the heroic face for Krakoa

  2. #2432
    Astonishing Member Rang10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    The stuff in X-Force is one of the motivation for her new role in X-Men. She wasnt down for the stuff that X-Force was doing, which was sanctioned by Xavier and the Council. She wants to reform the X-men free from their influence as the heroic face for Krakoa
    That wasn't exposed on page, writers need to let chaarcters talk about what they are feeling
    Last edited by Rang10; 04-19-2021 at 12:10 PM.

  3. #2433
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rang10 View Post
    That wasn't exposed on page, writers need to let chaarcters talk about what they are feeling
    Readers need to be abel to read between the lines. Not every single thing needs to be explained in explicit detail. The stuff in X-Force was the boiling point of her frustration with the QC and XOS was the catalyst that got her to quit and start up her own thing.



    The stuff she says here dovetails perfectly into the stuff she said about the X-men being heroes. X-Force werent heroes and as part of that team she realized that neither was she. That revelation has informed her decisions and its why she is on the current path that she is on

  4. #2434
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    Quote Originally Posted by andreikes View Post
    Yes, even he did the best for her.
    The best: 2 boyfriends or open relationship
    Quote Originally Posted by Rang10 View Post
    Writers keep doing a awful job on Jean's love life, nothing new, same old and using her to make the gys look good. Nothing deep, nothing to root for...
    Quote Originally Posted by Dam View Post
    Good thing is, for me that's the point I stop buying books, at any signal of threesome or cheating. I don't want to read anything like that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wiccan View Post
    I love the subtextual Jott vs Logean shipwar going on.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kitty&Piotr<3 View Post
    My bad, I don't mean to be subtextual. Though it's less about love for Jean/Logan than it is the dread of SCOTT/jean

    That's why the girl can't have her powers or have a modern costume
    I’m thinking the Marvel Girl costume is for easy access for her two boyfriends, Scott and Logan. Or is it husband and boyfriend? I don’t remember if she bothered to divorce Scott or not.

    Face it, girlfriend’s got a serious kinky side. See her Black Queen phase or the time she air-fried 5 billion asparagus people just to get off.

    I’m not judging her throuple with Scott and Logan, though. I’m just reading what Hickman and his predecessors are laying down.

    I sometimes think the depiction of Jean’s character and that character’s love life have less to do with the character, and more to do with her male writers’ Madonna-whore Complexes.

    Quote Originally Posted by andreikes View Post
    They could date and leave Jean alone
    That would actually make a lot more sense from a psychological standpoint.

  5. #2435
    Smart & Swift & Violent Kitty&Piotr<3's Avatar
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    Oh it is absolutely to do with the Madonna/Whore dichotomy and that ties into her powers as well.

    Marvel Girl is the mild and innocent Madonna, before things got too complicated for Cyclops (and the writers that want to be him lol).

    The Phoenix represents the whore, the wild side, the more unchained/unbridled, the one who revels in power and leads.

    Let this girl be her broccoli people-frying self.
    Last edited by Kitty&Piotr<3; 04-19-2021 at 01:23 PM.
    "Cyclops loves wilted roses because they remind him of dead redheads."
    -Gail

  6. #2436
    Beware! Daedra's Avatar
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    This is my “what if Jean Grey never became phoenix” but instead evolved and unleashed her own potential from Marvel Girl to Marvel Woman back in the 70’s

    I tried to imagine how her costume could have been post Shuttle incident using Dodson, Deuterman and Asrar as templates





    "Can we just say that she is a chaos magic avatar and that her origin is split across the multiverse? She has no beginning, she has no end, she exists to be the improbability of the cosmos. She's neither mutant, inhuman, sorcereress or otherwise. Everything and nothing." (Anonymous)

  7. #2437
    Fantastic Member andreikes's Avatar
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    Love this

    ''Louise: I mean, Jean had been stressed anyway because they had pulled away her telepathy.

    Walter: She’d also been dead. It could be a lot of stuff with Jean.

    Louise: Yeah. She had a hard life. Poor Jean. ''

  8. #2438
    Astonishing Member Rang10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitty&Piotr<3 View Post
    Oh it is absolutely to do with the Madonna/Whore dichotomy and that ties into her powers as well.

    Marvel Girl is the mild and innocent Madonna, before things got too complicated for Cyclops (and the writers that want to be him lol).

    The Phoenix represents the whore, the wild side, the more unchained/unbridled, the one who revels in power and leads.

    Let this girl be her broccoli people-frying self.
    marvel Girl is innofensive, she is powerful but she will do what you ask without question.

    Phoenix is a lot more powerful and her own woman. That is scary for some people.

    Phoenix was a female emancipation story cut short by Byrne

    Quote Originally Posted by Daedra View Post
    This is my “what if Jean Grey never became phoenix” but instead evolved and unleashed her own potential from Marvel Girl to Marvel Woman back in the 70’s

    I tried to imagine how her costume could have been post Shuttle incident using Dodson, Deuterman and Asrar as templates





    This is beautiful, feels very greek Goddess

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian B View Post
    I’m thinking the Marvel Girl costume is for easy access for her two boyfriends, Scott and Logan. Or is it husband and boyfriend? I don’t remember if she bothered to divorce Scott or not.

    Face it, girlfriend’s got a serious kinky side. See her Black Queen phase or the time she air-fried 5 billion asparagus people just to get off.

    I’m not judging her throuple with Scott and Logan, though. I’m just reading what Hickman and his predecessors are laying down.

    I sometimes think the depiction of Jean’s character and that character’s love life have less to do with the character, and more to do with her male writers’ Madonna-whore Complexes.


    That would actually make a lot more sense from a psychological standpoint.
    black Queen Jean was being raped, so don't use it as reference. I'm not sure what is going on but Jean love life is crap
    Last edited by Rang10; 04-19-2021 at 03:06 PM.

  9. #2439
    Extraordinary Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daedra View Post
    This is my “what if Jean Grey never became phoenix” but instead evolved and unleashed her own potential from Marvel Girl to Marvel Woman back in the 70’s

    I tried to imagine how her costume could have been post Shuttle incident using Dodson, Deuterman and Asrar as templates





    Wow, very nice art and colors, Daedra! I love the detail of the little Mask clasp too! Jean as the Psionic Goddess! Thanks for sharing!
    [Quote Originally Posted by Thor-El 10-15-2020 12:32 PM]


    "Jason Aaron should know there is already a winner of the Phoenix Force and his name is Phoenixx9."

  10. #2440
    Astonishing Member Rang10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andreikes View Post
    Love this

    ''Louise: I mean, Jean had been stressed anyway because they had pulled away her telepathy.

    Walter: She’d also been dead. It could be a lot of stuff with Jean.

    Louise: Yeah. She had a hard life. Poor Jean. ''
    This is one of the best x-mondays, they have a lot to talk and are a very sweet couple.

    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Readers need to be abel to read between the lines. Not every single thing needs to be explained in explicit detail. The stuff in X-Force was the boiling point of her frustration with the QC and XOS was the catalyst that got her to quit and start up her own thing.



    The stuff she says here dovetails perfectly into the stuff she said about the X-men being heroes. X-Force werent heroes and as part of that team she realized that neither was she. That revelation has informed her decisions and its why she is on the current path that she is on
    They need to write what the character thinks and feels. She was very fine with Quiet Council her problem was Beast going over any limit in the name of krakoa, specially when they let Cyclops take all decisons
    Last edited by Rang10; 04-19-2021 at 03:24 PM.

  11. #2441
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rang10 View Post
    This is one of the best x-mondays, they have a lot to talk and are a very sweet couple.



    They need to write what the character thinks and feels. She was very fine with Quiet Council her problem was Beast going over any limit in the name of krakoa, specially when they let Cyclops take all decisons
    They dont need to write out every little detail. The audience is more intelligent than you give them credit for. You're ignoring the parallels and themes that were growing with both Jean and Scott to get them to where they are now.


    Jean acknowledges her disappointment with QC and denies Kurt's request to follow her bc she sees him as the soul of the group and one of the few good ones left that can help hold things together


    Scott reaffirms that the QC is a government group but they dont speak for the people. Like Jean, he views the value in reforming the X-men to be its heroes. This parallels well with what Jean says in the other pic I posted about X-force not being heroes and doing the dirty work by any means necessary. The diffference is they plan on being heroes and not beholden to the QC's control


    Finally Jean turns down the QC membership and reiterates her desire to reform the X-men and why its important. There's been a literary thread which has followed her and you can ignore it but it was as clear as it needed to be. It really wasnt too difficult to follow her in X-Force to see how she got here and where she will end up going

  12. #2442
    Astonishing Member Rang10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    They dont need to write out every little detail. The audience is more intelligent than you give them credit for. You're ignoring the parallels and themes that were growing with both Jean and Scott to get them to where they are now.


    Jean acknowledges her disappointment with QC and denies Kurt's request to follow her bc she sees him as the soul of the group and one of the few good ones left that can help hold things together


    Scott reaffirms that the QC is a government group but they dont speak for the people. Like Jean, he views the value in reforming the X-men to be its heroes. This parallels well with what Jean says in the other pic I posted about X-force not being heroes and doing the dirty work by any means necessary. The diffference is they plan on being heroes and not beholden to the QC's control


    Finally Jean turns down the QC membership and reiterates her desire to reform the X-men and why its important. There's been a literary thread which has followed her and you can ignore it but it was as clear as it needed to be. It really wasnt too difficult to follow her in X-Force to see how she got here and where she will end up going
    X-force as x-men also fought for krakoa, as marauders and other teams. Jean is being a demagogue here. Just because x-men gonna be heroes, doesn't make them better than anyone else.

    A characters needs to expose their motivations, I know Hickman think Jean as girlfriend and not as complete character worth of being worked. That is why Scott takes all the spotlight saying what he thinks and putting rules.

    It was Scott that said that Jean or anyone could be on quiet council, but he kept his role as captain commander that reports to Quiet Council.

    That only explains that Jean was helping the Quiet Council have good people on it, not that she thinks it is corrupt. Now she is gone so Xavier has a chance to pu another villain on it, really (not) smart from Jean

  13. #2443
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rang10 View Post
    X-force as x-men also fought for krakoa, as marauders and other teams. Jean is being a demagogue here. Just because x-men gonna be heroes, doesn't make them better than anyone else.

    A characters needs to expose their motivations, I know Hickman think Jean as girlfriend and not as complete character worth of being worked. That is why Scott takes all the spotlight saying what he thinks and putting rules.

    It was Scott that said that Jean or anyone could be on quiet council, but he kept his role as captain commander that reports to Quiet Council.

    That only explains that Jean was helping the Quiet Council have good people on it, not that she thinks it is corrupt. Now she is gone so Xavier has a chance to pu another villain on it, really (not) smart from Jean
    X-Force was sanctioned and operates under the QC. Most of the stuff they do is kept hidden from Krakoan citizens and they've done some questionable things which has been called out or put into question which Xavier and Magneto have approved. The Marauders also have done some shady stuff and they operate under the Hellfire Trading Company, 3 of whom are QC members. X-Force is black ops and Maraurders are very political. Neither group operates in what would traditionally be considered heroic. They are considered necessary evils in the current status quo but not anything Jean wants to be directly a part of. Not to mention the Hellions whom report to another QC member, Sinister

    There hasnt been a formal team of X-men this entire era. Random groups of people will gather together and fight as need be but there is no consistency or formal structure or leadership. The X-men simply do not exist as an actual team

    Had Jean not defied the QC's orders in XOS, not only would Cable have possibly died, but Krakoa would have lost and the Earth potentially doomed as a result. The X-men need to exist outside of the QC's control. That was made very clear and its what motivated Jean's decision to leave and lead by example, which we will see play out in the new book. We dont know how things will turn out for her but she does have an optimistic outlook and is going into this with the best intentions

  14. #2444
    Astonishing Member Rang10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    X-Force was sanctioned and operates under the QC. Most of the stuff they do is kept hidden from Krakoan citizens and they've done some questionable things which has been called out or put into question which Xavier and Magneto have approved. The Marauders also have done some shady stuff and they operate under the Hellfire Trading Company, 3 of whom are QC members. X-Force is black ops and Maraurders are very political. Neither group operates in what would traditionally be considered heroic. They are considered necessary evils in the current status quo but not anything Jean wants to be directly a part of. Not to mention the Hellions whom report to another QC member, Sinister

    There hasnt been a formal team of X-men this entire era. Random groups of people will gather together and fight as need be but there is no consistency or formal structure or leadership. The X-men simply do not exist as an actual team

    Had Jean not defied the QC's orders in XOS, not only would Cable have possibly died, but Krakoa would have lost and the Earth potentially doomed as a result. The X-men need to exist outside of the QC's control. That was made very clear and its what motivated Jean's decision to leave and lead by example, which we will see play out in the new book. We dont know how things will turn out for her but she does have an optimistic outlook and is going into this with the best intentions
    You are right that X-force is secret, so the residents doesn't know about it. Marauders Is not heroic bcause they are political, more because some members go out maiming people, but they are out there rescuing mutants. I dont think krakoans gonna care about any violence against opressors so for them they are heroes.
    Helllions aren't less heroes because of Sinister, she was fine to put Havok into Sinister team.

    Well everyone on the island was a potential x-men, they were all on the call for Cyclops choose. Now they are just elected on a proper team, I really don't see te difference here as QC still commands Scott, how x-men actually exists out of QC command? So Scott an continue to be the captain commander and QC will let him get away with it? But Jean can't get away with being on QC that she was completely fine.
    About kid cable who cares? They should never had let a kid go and from the story Jean/Scott x-men did very little on the fight to say that they sved him. what saved the was Apocalypse winning the fight, not them

  15. #2445
    Fantastic Member andreikes's Avatar
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    I just hope Duggan doesn't replicate those Hickman scenes where Jean is "lost" in battle.

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