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  1. #2491
    Extraordinary Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daedra View Post
    Then they killed her again for almost 15 years..... Jean being alive did not ruin anything, her death in the long run just robbed us of a beloved character
    Quote Originally Posted by Daedra View Post
    It was mastermind even in Greece
    Quote Originally Posted by Daedra View Post
    I don’t have to convince you of anything, this is the Jean Grey appreciation thread and She’s alive and well
    Quote Originally Posted by Rang10 View Post
    He really groomed her to the very beggining, it was a long term plan. I think that it helps to understand why she was manipulated by him, she didn't even noticed it. the geginning becaue it was subtitle.


    it was a total break and destruction of her character, only a strong woman like Jean could survive it
    Quote Originally Posted by Harpsikord View Post
    Jean never should've died in the first place. Jean never should've went dark in the first place, and if you think otherwise you're a misogynist - just like John Byrne when he suggested it.

    Everything and All quoted for TRUTH.

    We love Jean Grey. This is her APPRECIATION THREAD. Bashing can be done on any number of other threads without us.

    Jean Grey is the first and greatest X-Woman! She is the Heart and Soul of the X-Men. Jean Grey is the first True X-Men Goddess, the Psionic Supreme!

    If you think otherwise, then you need to go back and READ the story.
    Last edited by Phoenixx9; 04-20-2021 at 06:13 PM.
    [Quote Originally Posted by Thor-El 10-15-2020 12:32 PM]


    "Jason Aaron should know there is already a winner of the Phoenix Force and his name is Phoenixx9."

  2. #2492
    Ultimate Member Wiccan's Avatar
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    I kinda disagree that she shouldn't have went dark and died. I think Dark Phoenix is still a pretty good story. Jean's sacrifice works great narratively. They just should have brought her back later normally, without any retcons, since the Phoenix is literally a symbol of rebirth.

  3. #2493
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daedra View Post
    I don’t have to convince you of anything, this is the Jean Grey appreciation thread and She’s alive and well
    I like her up until #137, then I appreciate her much less.

  4. #2494
    The Superior One Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenixx9 View Post
    Everything and All quoted for TRUTH.

    We love Jean Grey. This is her APPRECIATION THREAD. Bashing can be done on any number of other threads without us.

    Jean Grey is the first and greatest X-Woman! She is the Heart and Soul of the X-Men. Jean Grey is the first True X-Men Goddess, the Psionic Supreme!

    If you think otherwise, then you need to go back and READ the story.
    I hate anyone actively bashing a character in their appreciation thread. I think it is done in extremely taste and should be avoided whenever possible. If I were a mod I would adopt a zero-tolerance policy towards such behavior.
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

  5. #2495
    Astonishing Member Rang10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiccan View Post
    I kinda disagree that she shouldn't have went dark and died. I think Dark Phoenix is still a pretty good story. Jean's sacrifice works great narratively. They just should have brought her back later normally, without any retcons, since the Phoenix is literally a symbol of rebirth.
    I really think that her dying made hr guilty of things she shouldn't be. It took the atention away from the bad guys and what they did to her. Also it became tiring Jean scrificing and being killed

    Quote Originally Posted by otipep_90 View Post
    It’s ridiculous that The Dark Phoenix Saga has become such a president for all Phoenix Hosts scumming to their darker urges, when clearly she Jean had been groomed to become Dark Phoenix. This reminds me of Byrne’s interpolation. Them at the Phoenix Firce was malevolent spirit, when it was Mastermind all along! The Phoenix Force works better as a Cosmic Abstract, not a manipulative entity.

    Goes to show how many writers have not understood the mechanics of Claremont’s story.
    One of the clear things is that writers doesn't undertand DPS. It's a story about corruption not about losing control of a great power
    Last edited by Rang10; 04-20-2021 at 06:56 PM.

  6. #2496
    Smart & Swift & Violent Kitty&Piotr<3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daedra View Post
    I don’t have to convince you of anything, this is the Jean Grey appreciation thread and She’s alive and well
    Right?

    This is where you put the "deal with it" shades on.

    Besides that, there was a decade and a half of the woman getting her punishment death or whatever. Good thing she's back now.

    Now, if only we could get her with a writer who wants to see her flourish...
    "Cyclops loves wilted roses because they remind him of dead redheads."
    -Gail

  7. #2497
    Spectacular Member Cane_danko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiccan View Post
    I kinda disagree that she shouldn't have went dark and died. I think Dark Phoenix is still a pretty good story. Jean's sacrifice works great narratively. They just should have brought her back later normally, without any retcons, since the Phoenix is literally a symbol of rebirth.
    The retcon was so lame lol how she formed the cocoon or whatever and didnt really die. Yeah i think it would’ve worked better her being the phoenix and all but whatever not gonna get hung up on something thirty years ago

  8. #2498
    hate cant reach you here Harpsikord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiccan View Post
    I kinda disagree that she shouldn't have went dark and died. I think Dark Phoenix is still a pretty good story. Jean's sacrifice works great narratively. They just should have brought her back later normally, without any retcons, since the Phoenix is literally a symbol of rebirth.
    It's bad because Jean going dark was literally John Byrne coming in and deciding that having a character like Jean (eg, a female) be as strong as Thor and the Silver Surfer and Galactus' heralds was a bad thing simply because a woman shouldn't be strong, and that if they were then the power would go to her head. It's literally steeped in misogyny and there's no other way to slice it.

    As for you thinking Dark Phoenix is still a pretty good story, well, that's more power to you. But at the end of the day it's a story that's framed around a strong woman's psyche being broken and her going insane, and largely painted by the reactions of what the men in her life do about it up until the end where she kills herself.
    "We come into this world alone and we leave the same way. The time we spent in between - time spent alive, sharing, learning together... is all that makes life worth living." - Jean Grey

  9. #2499
    Astonishing Member Zelena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harpsikord View Post
    It's bad because Jean going dark was literally John Byrne coming in and deciding that having a character like Jean (eg, a female) be as strong as Thor and the Silver Surfer and Galactus' heralds was a bad thing simply because a woman shouldn't be strong, and that if they were then the power would go to her head. It's literally steeped in misogyny and there's no other way to slice it.

    As for you thinking Dark Phoenix is still a pretty good story, well, that's more power to you. But at the end of the day it's a story that's framed around a strong woman's psyche being broken and her going insane, and largely painted by the reactions of what the men in her life do about it up until the end where she kills herself.
    I don’t understand why you keep talking about Byrne… Dark Phoenix is a Claremont’s story, I believe.

  10. #2500
    Mighty Member nightw1ng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena View Post
    I don’t understand why you keep talking about Byrne… Dark Phoenix is a Claremont’s story, I believe.
    I think I read that Byrne didn't like how powerful Claremont was making Jean and thought she was making the rest of the team unnecessary. I don't think he even considered her part of the main team since he didn't put her in the characters box on the covers.

    Byrne is also one of the reasons why Jean was killed off. Byrne drew the D'Bari being killed by Jean when she destroyed their sun, even though Claremont never mentioned in the script that the system had an inhabited planet, thus making her a genocidal murderer.

  11. #2501
    Astonishing Member Zelena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightw1ng View Post
    I think I read that Byrne didn't like how powerful Claremont was making Jean and thought she was making the rest of the team unnecessary. I don't think he even considered her part of the main team since he didn't put her in the characters box on the covers.

    Byrne is also one of the reasons why Jean was killed off. Byrne drew the D'Bari being killed by Jean when she destroyed their sun, even though Claremont never mentioned in the script that the system had an inhabited planet, thus making her a genocidal murderer.
    Powerful characters are indeed a problem in a team dynamic and no one could argue that Jean Grey wasn’t apart from the rest of her teamates.

    But it’s quite hard to tell about an author’s feelings on a character based on a story: Jean Grey wasn’t herself when she was Dark Phoenix and comic authors do their best to accentuate the drama of a story.

  12. #2502
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    I cannot say anything good about Jean in a different thread from this one, people are attacked just by saying something good about Jean, the hate against her is impressive in any other thread.
    Nevertheless, now that we are just appreciating Jean in her thread, people are comming to this thread to bash her and hate her, the audacity.

  13. #2503

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    FYI, Jean really shines in X-Force #19. Won't spoil it. Just gonna say that she proves that when it comes to teaching psychic tricks to moody teenagers, Jean has no equals.
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  14. #2504
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarvelMaster616 View Post
    FYI, Jean really shines in X-Force #19. Won't spoil it. Just gonna say that she proves that when it comes to teaching psychic tricks to moody teenagers, Jean has no equals.
    Totally agree, i wasnt fussy on the art, but Jean was a teacher and leader and in control. Good issue for her.

  15. #2505
    Astonishing Member Zelena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rang10 View Post
    One of the clear things is that writers doesn't undertand DPS. It's a story about corruption not about losing control of a great power
    I didn’t help that Moira and sometimes also her teamates felt uncomfortable about her level of power. It gave the impression that Jean could lose control… even it all began with Jason Wyngarde’s meddling.


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