Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2021

[WallStreeter]

I love Jean’s Hellfire Gala costume.

[andreikes]

When cable leaves she will babysit the Cuckos.

[Phoenixx9]

Fox’s Phoenix movies were utter disasters, while Wandavision was a huge success.

The comics are behind the times, with the movies and now the streaming so big.

That is because of the design of the outcome. In the Phoenix movies they made Jean less than she truly was and made her the villain with Death as the outcome.

If they wanted to, they could have made great Phoenix movies with Jean as the Heroine Supreme, saving the world, strong and in control of her powers, ALIVE at the end! (Yes, yes, I know in the last one she evolved into The Phoenix, but I mean alive on earth.)

[Phoenixx9]

Being too powerful certainly isn’t a problem for Captain Marvel, Scarlet Witch, Dr. Strange, or Thor in the MCU films. Jean she needs better writers who are not old school fan boys.

Hey, I didn't say that, others on here did for years, I just mentioned it was the excuse I heard. I do not believe that is the reason. To me, there is NO reason to ever kill Jean.

Argue with Marvel about it. Better yet, show them your displeasure where it counts----in the money department. Don't buy their products till you get what you want. Email them, facebook them, bombard them with your disapproval. (yeah, yeah, I know you will say they will ignore you, but ya gotta let 'em know.)

[Wiccan]

The problem was doing Dark Phoenix right after introducing Jean, in only one movie, and with no aspects of the original story.

Introduze Jean in Apocalypse as they had.

Make a new X-Men movie showing the new team getting together and bonding, where Jean developing her powers is a sub plot.

And then do a Dark Phoenix movie. Preferably a 2-part, where the first part is based around the Hellfire Club part of the story(they don't have to use the Hellfire Club itself for it if they don't want to), and the second the whole space thing (but it could work as just one movie too if they really tried).

[Phoenixx9]

The problem was doing Dark Phoenix right after introducing Jean, in only one movie, and with no aspects of the original story.

Introduze Jean in Apocalypse as they had.

Make a new X-Men movie showing the new team getting together and bonding, where Jean developing her powers is a sub plot.

And then do a Dark Phoenix movie. Preferably a 2-part, where the first part is based around the Hellfire Club part of the story(they don't have to use the Hellfire Club itself for it if they don't want to), and the second the whole space thing (but it could work as just one movie too if they really tried).

But that isn't even the entire problem. They were going to do 2 long movies. Then, that got cut out and they had to do 1. Then, the time had to be cut down.

The answer should have been to show Jean becoming Phoenix, save the Earth, be the Heroine Supreme of the X-Men, while maintaining absolute control over her new powers. The movie ends with Jean beating the bad guys and retaing her Phoenix powers. Jean is Phoenix at the end of the movie (regardles if this is the last movie they could make.) They did not need to do Dark Phoenix or show Jean going dark. The movie should have been called: X-men: Enter the Phoenix.

[Daedra]

But that isn't even the entire problem. They were going to do 2 long movies. Then, that got cut out and they had to do 1. Then, the time had to be cut down.

The answer should have been to show Jean becoming Phoenix, save the Earth, be the Heroine Supreme of the X-Men, while maintaining absolute control over her new powers. The movie ends with Jean beating the bad guys and retaing her Phoenix powers. Jean is Phoenix at the end of the movie (regardles if this is the last movie they could make.) They did not need to do Dark Phoenix or show Jean going dark. The movie should have been called: X-men: Enter the Phoenix.

Agreed on all points, if they had followed this route it would have been a great experience but at this stage I think it's safe to say the phoenix ship has sailed. The comic version is a horrible lame mess and the movie side reeks of cinematic flop.

[WallStreeter]

But that isn't even the entire problem. They were going to do 2 long movies. Then, that got cut out and they had to do 1. Then, the time had to be cut down.

The answer should have been to show Jean becoming Phoenix, save the Earth, be the Heroine Supreme of the X-Men, while maintaining absolute control over her new powers. The movie ends with Jean beating the bad guys and retaing her Phoenix powers. Jean is Phoenix at the end of the movie (regardles if this is the last movie they could make.) They did not need to do Dark Phoenix or show Jean going dark. The movie should have been called: X-men: Enter the Phoenix.

The MCU can now do what you’ve just said.

Or something similar.

[WallStreeter]

Hey, I didn't say that, others on here did for years, I just mentioned it was the excuse I heard. I do not believe that is the reason. To me, there is NO reason to ever kill Jean.

Argue with Marvel about it. Better yet, show them your displeasure where it counts----in the money department. Don't buy their products till you get what you want. Email them, facebook them, bombard them with your disapproval. (yeah, yeah, I know you will say they will ignore you, but ya gotta let 'em know.)

Even better than this has happened already. Read this article. It’s on how Hickman sidelines female characters during his relaunch.

The complaints fans made about this have not gone unnoticed. I think part of the issue is while the MCU hires excellent writers, the same he not true for the comics who tend to hire old white males stuck in the 80s before comics were tv and film properties.

That era of Marvel will still going on who Stan Lee decided were the best scientists, psychics, magicians, fighters, etc and it was almost always an old white man.

At this point I think there’s not much for us to do, I suspect recent changes in the comics as they’ve been put on notice.

Emma taking more of a leadership role, Jean finally going out in the field again co leading the X-Men, Stork finally taking action, and Saturnyne’s ascension along with the Captain Britain corpse being based on Betsy are apart of this.

Here is the link. https://screenrant.com/marvel-x-men-...-duggan-pryde/

[WallStreeter]

Agreed on all points, if they had followed this route it would have been a great experience but at this stage I think it's safe to say the phoenix ship has sailed. The comic version is a horrible lame mess and the movie side reeks of cinematic flop.

XMen 3 was not about the Phoenix at all. It was more about the cure. X-Men Dark Phoenix flopped due poor writing and directing, as well as poor casting.

Of course we’ll see Phoenix in MCU. MCU has taken poorly managed characters and concepts and made them enormous. If I’d asked people 15 years ago if they believed Scarlet Witch could get her own show people would think I’m crazy. And now look how things have changed.

[Exodus]

XMen 3 was not about the Phoenix at all. It was more about the cure. X-Men Dark Phoenix flopped due poor writing and directing, as well as poor casting.

Of course we’ll see Phoenix in MCU. MCU has taken poorly managed characters and concepts and made them enormous. If I’d asked people 15 years ago if they believed Scarlet Witch could get her own show people would think I’m crazy. And now look how things have changed.

I'm always suprised how central Jean Grey's Phoenix plot actually is in the first half of the movie. They just forgot about her in the second half.

[starduck]

No more Dark Phoenix movies please

[Marvelboy1974]

Luciano vecchio does it again!!! Xfactor Forever!!!

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

By: Claudio Saavedra Iriarte

[Phoenixx9]

Even the writers for the movies do not really know, understand or get the characters. They hear some things and take those views. They talk to a few people and get their views. They read a few comics here-and-there. Then, they think "they get the character" which is really just them wanting to make their mark by making the movie "their own" by doing things their way. They may read what some fans have to say, but if it differs from "their great idea" they disregard the fans.

Someone (from Marvel?) needs to tell these movie-makers, "Jean is not only a mega-fan favorite, she is a super-powerful Omega level mutant in full control of her powers. If you plan on any Phoenix storylines, the Phoenix is NOT a mental illness/disorder. It enhances Jean's powers to cosmic levels, yet Jean is in full control. There does not need to be any mention or downward spiral to Dark Phoenix. We at Marvel insist that you show Jean in the positive light that she really is for the X-Men and how she is a light for all humanity." instead of letting them run roughtshod over all of the characters.