Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2021

[Rang10]

SAME!!!



I'm starting to truly believe some writers think male and female characters are so fundamentally different that they can't be written with different faucets of their personalities. We talked a little about powers and I'm noticing more and more female characters are usually written WITH limitations while male characters are written to overcome whatever limitations they might have!

It really put some doubts how much interaction with women some male writers have. Because I think one way to write good female characters is knowing women on real life, talk to them and ask how they would like to be written in a book.

The other problem is that some identify with male characters and neglet the female characters. SAw this many times, specially with Jean.

I didn't mean you wanted PR spin from Duggan, sorry if it came off that way. I know (or at least think I know; please correct if wrong) you're looking at it as him saying those things would show an interest. I'm just saying where my POV is and why I have it.

Yeah, 3rd Birthday was a male writer. Most poor treatment of female characters that comes to mind has been from male creatives. I'm not sure in individual cases if they actually believe they're writing female characters well or are just saying that though. Sometimes they can be very obvious in how they're looking from a male-centric POV, with that translating into sexism whether intentionally or unintentionally.

As for the gala (and I'll keep this brief cause I realize this isn't the Polaris thread), yeah, that's what I mean. Marvel's been trying to force that relationship or reminders of it in various places since X-Men Blue, and it seems like it's literally impossible for Lorna to do anything without Marvel feeling the need to put in at least one reminder. As if there's some kind of behind the scenes requirement to do it. So I wouldn't put it past Marvel to force more interaction or even a relationship because it would be good for Havok to be able to exploit Lorna's new spotlight while on the team (a behavior that's never reciprocated; Marvel saw no need to bring up Lorna while Havok was on Uncanny Avengers, after all). And note I'm saying Marvel, rather than a specific writer; it's entirely possible Marvel might do some other project for that purpose.
.

Oh well, I'm a bit tired of writers when writing Lorna always remembering Alex, like she has no life out of being His GF or being Magneto daughter. But when writing Alex writers many times doesn't remember Lorna, I don't remember she being mentioned on Hellions or Uncanny Avengers. With hellions it is clear that the focus is him and Maddie.
This is a case that I think writers have to finish it and move on.

It also happens to Jean, writers didnt thought twice in kicking her out of Cyclops life. And also are relaly quick to make her his wife when it is convenient with little care about her character.

Female charactesr should be able to get lives independet of male characters

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

SAME!!!



I'm starting to truly believe some writers think male and female characters are so fundamentally different that they can't be written with different faucets of their personalities. We talked a little about powers and I'm noticing more and more female characters are usually written WITH limitations while male characters are written to overcome whatever limitations they might have!

For your average dude writer, the female characters, the ones that aren't focused on sexually titillating the reader anyway, should be focused as support for the male characters to provide the male characters with impetus for whatever their goals are.

In the past, this meant Jean Grey dying so Cyclops can cry about it, or her dying so he can have a more sexually titillating character as his love interest. In Emma's case, it eventually meant espousing how great Cyclops is and telling everyone to be calm because he is going to save the day, after the shock of her being a sexpot went away.

Two roles for the main guy's love interest when written by the average dude comic writer:

1. Calls the hero Tiger so they can save the day.

2. Dies because the hero didn't save the day and/or the hero is going in a new direction.

That's the type of character Jean is and her most important aspect if you don't ask a more progressive writer.

That's more or less what we can expect from "Marvel Girl" during Cyclops' latest epic from Duggan.

Hopefully it's option 1, rather than 2.

Pep talks to Cyclops and calling people on her mind telephone,, while not being much of an action hero herself still beats unceremonious death lol

[Daedra]

For your average dude writer, the female characters, the ones that aren't focused on sexually titillating the reader anyway, should be focused as support for the male characters to provide the male characters with impetus for whatever their goals are.

In the past, this meant Jean Grey dying so Cyclops can cry about it, or her dying so he can have a more sexually titillating character as his love interest. In Emma's case, it eventually meant espousing how great Cyclops is and telling everyone to be calm because he is going to save the day, after the shock of her being a sexpot went away.

Two roles for the main guy's love interest when written by the average dude comic writer:

1. Calls the hero Tiger so they can save the day.

2. Dies because the hero didn't save the day and/or the hero is going in a new direction.

That's the type of character Jean is and her most important aspect if you don't ask a more progressive writer.

That's more or less what we can expect from "Marvel Girl" during Cyclops' latest epic from Duggan.

Hopefully it's option 1, rather than 2.

Pep talks to Cyclops and calling people on her mind telephone,, while not being much of an action hero herself still beats unceremonious death lol

Marvel’s creativity when it come to Jean is as reliable as a broken clock

[Brian B]

...That's more or less what we can expect from "Marvel Girl" during Cyclops' latest epic from Duggan....

Do we get more or less throuple with Duggan? More Wolverine-Jean action or less? Or is that mostly a Hickman twist?

[Wiccan]

Do we get more or less throuple with Duggan? More Wolverine-Jean action or less? Or is that mostly a Hickman twist?

Logan isn't in the book so I'm not expecting anything.

[Rang10]

Do we get more or less throuple with Duggan? More Wolverine-Jean action or less? Or is that mostly a Hickman twist?

Same zero that we always get. LOL

For your average dude writer, the female characters, the ones that aren't focused on sexually titillating the reader anyway, should be focused as support for the male characters to provide the male characters with impetus for whatever their goals are.

In the past, this meant Jean Grey dying so Cyclops can cry about it, or her dying so he can have a more sexually titillating character as his love interest. In Emma's case, it eventually meant espousing how great Cyclops is and telling everyone to be calm because he is going to save the day, after the shock of her being a sexpot went away.

Two roles for the main guy's love interest when written by the average dude comic writer:

1. Calls the hero Tiger so they can save the day.

2. Dies because the hero didn't save the day and/or the hero is going in a new direction.

That's the type of character Jean is and her most important aspect if you don't ask a more progressive writer.

That's more or less what we can expect from "Marvel Girl" during Cyclops' latest epic from Duggan.

Hopefully it's option 1, rather than 2.

Pep talks to Cyclops and calling people on her mind telephone,, while not being much of an action hero herself still beats unceremonious death lol

I have been nothing how they show Cyclops being happy and talking about his family (he never thought about his family when he was cheating or dating Emma) being everything he wanted.

Krakoa narrative seems to be about bringing it down, specially that nobody ever earned it. Seeing how often Scott stories are about other people screwing him over intentionally or not, really looks like he might lose hhis "perfect family". jean alwys dying on him, charles hiding his secret brother and mind wiping everyone it is a clear pattern. Kid Cable would be the first strike. Maybe Rachel is the second and Jean is the third.

Not sure if they would kill Jean again, but they can character assassinate her

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

Do we get more or less throuple with Duggan? More Wolverine-Jean action or less? Or is that mostly a Hickman twist?

Jean/Logan is basically just Percy's headcanon lol

[loke13]

Jean/Logan is basically just Percy's headcanon lol

If by headcanon you mean canon to the books than yes lol

[Brian B]

Edited to respect Brian B's decision, though I wasn't offended.

I appreciate that, thank you. But it’s okay. I said it. I own it. I thought I was being funny, but then it occurred to me that with many people frequenting this board, there could have been someone who had such an awful, abusive experience. And I wouldn’t want to cause someone distress over such a thing.

[Brian B]

If by headcanon you mean canon to the books than yes lol

It’s canon all the way! I maintain, the throuple needs a nickname.

[Rang10]

Jean/Logan is basically just Percy's headcanon lol

Basically only canon for him and for X-force book. Very lame

throuple needs a nickname? what about "non-existent"

[Vishop]

Jean/Logan is basically just Percy's headcanon lol

Most of the relationships of this era is headcanon anyway.Nostalgia is what driving Scott and Jean nowdays.

[Brian B]

Basically only canon for him and for X-force book. Very lame

throuple needs a nickname? what about "non-existent"

And HoX and X-Men. But, you know, ignore those, LoL!

Look on the bright side? Maybe Moira X isn’t the 616. Maybe Moira XI will be.

Or maybe Hickman’s just outré. Although, then again, maybe it’s just the 21st century.

You need to learn to stop worrying and love the throuple. :-)

[Rang10]

And HoX and X-Men. But, you know, ignore those.

You’ve got it backwards. It’s your “canon” that Jean’s not with Scott and Logan. In the books, it’s a thing. Look on the bright side? Maybe Moira X isn’t the 616. Maybe Moira XI will be. Or maybe Hickman’s just outré. Although, then again, maybe it’s just the 21st century.

none of these books acknowledge that Jean is dating Logan. The only relationship that is constantly show is Jean and Scott, the rest is just some kiss and there that have zero importance for the story.
No my canon, it is the story canon

[Brian B]

Most of the relationships of this era is headcanon anyway.Nostalgia is what driving Scott and Jean nowdays.

Maybe? But it’s canon they’re still together. With Wolverine. Well, Jean is, at least. They all seem to be doing well.